Optimal Estrogen Levels...(E2 primarily)

[AzCats]

Dr. Rand Mcclain just mentioned here (on this segment released tonight) that the optimal ("sweet spot"-as he called it) E2 levels are roughly 15-20!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3xfMDdHqQA&feature=youtu.be

Not sure if this was the same video, but he also mentioned a normal dose of Adex for the average trt user was .5mg eod. IMO that seems like a bit much. If I am running 750-1000mg test, that sounds about right. I take .25mg every 3 days on 200mg test trt and my levels are kept within range. Anyone else seem to think that's overkill?

 

[Knight9]

Not sure if this was the same video, but he also mentioned a normal dose of Adex for the average trt user was .5mg eod. IMO that seems like a bit much. If I am running 750-1000mg test, that sounds about right. I take .25mg every 3 days on 200mg test trt and my levels are kept within range. Anyone else seem to think that's overkill?

He said he'd rather start there and adjust than to have estrogen too high. 0.5mg e3d or mwf sounds right for several of the Docs around here...except Alpha who always recommends Exemestane...which is the obvious best choice.

 

[Gravel]

Not sure if this was the same video, but he also mentioned a normal dose of Adex for the average trt user was .5mg eod. IMO that seems like a bit much. If I am running 750-1000mg test, that sounds about right. I take .25mg every 3 days on 200mg test trt and my levels are kept within range. Anyone else seem to think that's overkill?

For me it would be....... .25mg once per week on 200mg of test does the job.

 

[Gravel]

He said he'd rather start there and adjust than to have estrogen too high. 0.5mg e3d or mwf sounds right for several of the Docs around here...except Alpha who always recommends Exemestane...which is the obvious best choice.

I'm curious why Alpha feels Exemestane is the best choice? I was always under the impression Aromasin was best for PCT.

 

[Knight9]

I'm curious why Alpha feels Exemestane is the best choice? I was always under the impression Aromasin was best for PCT.

Exemestane is Aromasin.

 

[Gravel]

Exemestane is Aromasin.

I know....why does Alpha prefer it?

 

[Gravel]

Never mind I found it....Adex is better for comps keeps you dryer; aromasin better for rebound in estrogen when you quit using it and a little less impact on good cholesterol.

 

[Knight9]

Never mind I found it....Adex is better for comps keeps you dryer; aromasin better for rebound in estrogen when you quit using it and a little less impact on good cholesterol.

Yes, those are the reasons everyone prefers it. If people by now - don't know that aromasin is better...they've been living under a rock. I've been saying this since probably 2006 or so - because I was educated by smart people that were ahead of the game. Those are usually the people I pay complete attention to..always have. My point is that Alpha is the only doctor I know that sits there and says don't get arimidex with your trt...find aromasin! The other docs either DON'T KNOW or DON'T CARE (which is worse?) and sell it anyways to make more $.

 

[heroish]

Knight isn't it an issue that all of the research of negatives of E2 in men come from studies where all of the people likely have low to very low levels of testosterone?

There is no studies on how high estrogen effects men with high testosterone also. There might be no issues, there might be many, for all we know it could be better than having lower levels with high testosterone.

Shouldn't everyone just run testosterone and see how they feel first, whether on cycle or not. See what side effects they get and then lower estrogen levels if side effects present themselves.

It might never be desirable to go out of the range i.e. 60-70 E2 but over controlling it to always be 20-25 might have long term issues and might not be optimal either.

 

[Stewie]

Testosterone, thrombophilia, and thrombosis. - PubMed - NCBI

Clin Appl Thromb Hemost. 2014 Jan;20(1):22-30. doi:

10.1177/1076029613485154. Epub 2013 Apr 23.
Testosterone, thrombophilia, and thrombosis.

Glueck CJ1, Richardson-Royer C, Schultz R, Burger T, Labitue F, Riaz MK, Padda J, Bowe D, Goldenberg N, Wang P.
Author information


Abstract
We describe thrombosis, deep venous thrombosis (DVT) pulmonary embolism (PE; n = 9) and hip-knee osteonecrosis (n = 5) that developed after testosterone therapy (median 11 months) in 14 previously healthy patients (13 men and 1 woman; 13 Caucasian and 1 African American), with no antecedent thrombosis and previously undiagnosed thrombophilia-hypofibrinolysis. Of the 14 patients, 3 were found to be factor V Leiden heterozygotes, 3 had high factor VIII, 3 had plasminogen activator inhibitor 1 4G4G homozygosity, 2 had high factor XI, 2 had high homocysteine, 1 had low antithrombin III, 1 had the lupus anticoagulant, 1 had high anticardiolipin antibody Immunoglobulin G, and 1 had no clotting abnormalities. In 4 men with thrombophilia, DVT-PE recurred when testosterone was continued despite therapeutic international normalized ratio on warfarin. In 60 men on testosterone, 20 (33%) had high estradiol (E2 >42.6 pg/mL). When exogenous testosterone is aromatized to E2, and E2-induced thrombophilia is superimposed on thrombophilia-hypofibrinolysis, thrombosis occurs. The DVT-PE and osteonecrosis after starting testosterone are associated with previously undiagnosed thrombophilia-hypofibrinolysis. Thrombophilia should be ruled out before administration of exogenous testosterone.

 

[Goody]

Problem with aromasin is that it's expensive
My insurance doesn't cover my trt
Adex is cheap
I pay 21$ for 30 1mg tabs without insurance
That last me forever

 

[Knight9]

Problem with aromasin is that it's expensive
My insurance doesn't cover my trt
Adex is cheap
I pay 21$ for 30 1mg tabs without insurance
That last me forever

Pharma finds a way to fuck you...so just find a way to fuck them/get yours. Find a good aromasin supplier (it's tough but very possible) and use them. Still not as cheap as adex....but health isn't cheap and lack of it gets very expensive very quickly.

 

[raw33man]

Warning: The following statements are bro science but are based on my experiences

Test E causes less aromitization and less E2 conversion for whatever the case is... I don't know !

I was on 100mg of Test E a week for TRT, ran out, ordered some Test but supplier sent C instead of E because he was out.... and he IS LEGIT !

It was not a big deal to me, but after a few week of being on Test C 100, my nipples started itching and I noticed a bit of water in my face. I have a descent jawline and I can tell right away when face gets watery.

I thought shit was overdosed so I ordered some Test E again from the same source and after a few weeks, itchiness went away along with the lil water....

I'm mind fucked... please let me know if you have had a similar situation.

Conspiracy Theory: Why the fuck does United States uses Test C but the rest of the world uses Test E ? Because Test C causes more aromitization therefore people would need to use AIs ??? Pharma Mafia shit going on

 

[devenidas]

Yes, those are the reasons everyone prefers it. If people by now - don't know that aromasin is better...they've been living under a rock. I've been saying this since probably 2006 or so - because I was educated by smart people that were ahead of the game. Those are usually the people I pay complete attention to..always have. My point is that Alpha is the only doctor I know that sits there and says don't get arimidex with your trt...find aromasin! The other docs either DON'T KNOW or DON'T CARE (which is worse?) and sell it anyways to make more $.

That makes me the guy living under the rock then lol! Actually i have been off for some time now taken nothing just gone back to using a little. That ask the doc Dr McLain was pimping arimidax if I remember .

I have used nolva tamoxifen , arimidax in past . So knight does alpha says ONLY use aromasin and nothing else will be needed to manage all a to z estrogen sides while on and also for PCT purposes in case if a subject doesn't desire to go down the cruising road ? Many thanks bro.

 

[Knight9]

That makes me the guy living under the rock then lol! Actually i have been off for some time now taken nothing just gone back to using a little. That ask the doc Dr McLain was pimping arimidax if I remember .

I have used nolva tamoxifen , arimidax in past . So knight does alpha says ONLY use aromasin and nothing else will be needed to manage all a to z estrogen sides while on and also for PCT purposes in case if a subject doesn't desire to go down the cruising road ? Many thanks bro.

Yes aromasin for cycles, trt, pct etc. It's not just alpha either....it's pretty much everyone who knows what is best for health. McClain is great but he...just like 95% of doctors prescribe arimidex. It's the norm and they likely benefit from the sale of it and plenty of it. That and it's affordable which aromasin by rx isn't nearly as reasonable/practical.

 

[hemipower]

I'm in the same boat...doc had me on 300T and exemestane (agree it's the best as it's steroidal and doesn't harm HDL levels the way arim does). He doesn't like test over 200mg/wk and no anti-estro at all.

Problem is...exem only came in TINY 25mg tabs way too small to cut. Doc suggested 1 a day!! Too much of course so I just did 25 mg e3d. Libido fell off the map...blood tests showed my estro level at 6! So added hcg in to get natty test up a bit and E2...brought T shots down to 100mg twice a week then down again to 50mg EOD...hcg at 300 EOD...and also had to switch to arim due to cost on exem being $360/30 of the 25s and arim being 30 of the 1mg for $19. SO currently taking 1mg arim every 5th day. Seem to be feeling better but would like to pull blood again and see. Been here before and just shot right past proper E2 and ended up around 80. hence the lowering of the test dose for a couple months while on hcg.

Thinking to go BACK to the doc and check things out...back the hcg to 250 twice a week till out...test back to 200mg...then 300 once off hcg... and then maybe swap to exem and have a compound pharm make me 5mg caps/tabs and take that EOD. Half life is short BUT since it's not bad about rebound I'd think that would be ok. I don't need much...and if I wasn't on hcg then I'd likely do no anti-Estro. Normally that puts me around 35 E2. 300 test and no anti E as long as it's 100mg 3x a week, maybe 150 twice.

Really hoping to find that sweet spot again soon and then leave it alone...not sure why I listened to the docs advice knowing how my body reacts and what I need but he mentioned it changes as we age...thanks doc. Rather not stay on hcg long term but he strongly suggested that also. Shouldn't need to but the libido loss made me panic and wanted it fixed quickly.

 

[Stewie]

I'm in the same boat...doc had me on 300T and exemestane (agree it's the best as it's steroidal and doesn't harm HDL levels the way arim does). He doesn't like test over 200mg/wk and no anti-estro at all.

Problem is...exem only came in TINY 25mg tabs way too small to cut. Doc suggested 1 a day!! Too much of course so I just did 25 mg e3d. Libido fell off the map...blood tests showed my estro level at 6! So added hcg in to get natty test up a bit and E2...brought T shots down to 100mg twice a week then down again to 50mg EOD...hcg at 300 EOD...and also had to switch to arim due to cost on exem being $360/30 of the 25s and arim being 30 of the 1mg for $19. SO currently taking 1mg arim every 5th day. Seem to be feeling better but would like to pull blood again and see. Been here before and just shot right past proper E2 and ended up around 80. hence the lowering of the test dose for a couple months while on hcg.

Thinking to go BACK to the doc and check things out...back the hcg to 250 twice a week till out...test back to 200mg...then 300 once off hcg... and then maybe swap to exem and have a compound pharm make me 5mg caps/tabs and take that EOD. Half life is short BUT since it's not bad about rebound I'd think that would be ok. I don't need much...and if I wasn't on hcg then I'd likely do no anti-Estro. Normally that puts me around 35 E2. 300 test and no anti E as long as it's 100mg 3x a week, maybe 150 twice.

Really hoping to find that sweet spot again soon and then leave it alone...not sure why I listened to the docs advice knowing how my body reacts and what I need but he mentioned it changes as we age...thanks doc. Rather not stay on hcg long term but he strongly suggested that also. Shouldn't need to but the libido loss made me panic and wanted it fixed quickly.

I've cut both scripted exmestane and arimidex up into ¼ tabs very easily with an exacto knife.

Edit: if you tank your E2 levels again, try taking 100mg of DHEA for a few days. This has helped many people, jump their E2 back up in a relatively short time.

 

[Knight9]

Verbatim from Dusty Hanshaw:

for what we do I've found that optimal is 21-26 feel great

I asked if it was kept in that range whether on a trt type dose(300), or a big dose several times that. He responded...

if your dosing is constant you can always keep your levels in that range by utilizing the correct dose of anti daily as well



There we have it:
Dante 21-37
Dustry 21-26
Dr. McClain 15-21
Alpha doesn't worry unless at or near 50.
Emeric mentioned in another thread 25-50.

 

[devenidas]

Verbatim from Dusty Hanshaw:

for what we do I've found that optimal is 21-26 feel great

I asked if it was kept in that range whether on a trt type dose(300), or a big dose several times that. He responded...

if your dosing is constant you can always keep your levels in that range by utilizing the correct dose of anti daily as well



There we have it:
Dante 21-37
Dustry 21-26
Dr. McClain 15-21
Alpha doesn't worry unless at or near 50.
Emeric mentioned in another thread 25-50.

Knight thank u for your great work mate . always bringing helpful info for everyone cheers

 

[Knight9]

Knight thank u for your great work mate . always bringing helpful info for everyone cheers

Glad to help, brother.