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ORALS TOWARDS THE END OF CYCLE

9TMARE

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Not sure if there is a thread about this yet but I find it very interesting and worth while due to it making a lot of sense.

Start Minute 8:50

Also a good Info off another forum. I will definitely be trying this next blast.

~Some things are a tradition because, well, theyre a tradition. We do things because thats the way its been done and getting outside of that zone is hard. That mentality is very, very present in the world of steroids. And were all guilty of it in one form or another.

So today I posit a theorybased on some simple science and general observationsthat almost everyone who uses oral steroids is simply doing it wrong.

How many times has this cycle been run:

Im running test e 500mg/w for 12 weeks, with 50mg dbol the first four weeks as a kickstart

That cycle has been done to death. And its just flat out stupid. Its based on little more than the visual effects of the dbol, which can be dramatic those first few weeks. But what are you actually getting? Water and glycogen, right?

But the test takes a while to kick in, so I wanted to get going right away

Get going with what, exactly? You think you are putting on muscle by week two? You think thats what that is? You think that by week two your test levels arent already supraphysiological? Because they are. No, you havent hit that peak point where youre going to stay at for the duration of the cycle, but youre way beyond where you were an hour before your first pin. What youve done is front-loaded strength gains, which are temporary on dbol, and youve added a lot of messy weight that will not be there two months from now. By the time your test has fully engaged youre not that much further ahead in terms of actual muscle growth. Know when you will be in a great position to use an oral like dbol?

The end of your cycle.

Think about it for a moment. Whats the point of running a test cycle? More muscle, right? In your experience, how many guys put on real, quality muscle in four weeks? If someone came on here and said they were running a four week test prop cycle what would be the response? Wed tell him that four weeks isnt long enough to make it worth it. So why are those four weeks different than the ones Im talking about? (Hint: theyre not)

The best youll ever be on cycle is towards the end. After youve been grinding for 10 weeks, eating well, training hard, and putting on appreciable size, your body is getting used to this new paradigm. And then like a thief in the night it is stolen away. The injections stop, the half-lives start to dissipate, and then pct begins. Those last few weeks are underutilized by almost everyone Ive ever seen here or any other forum. So why keep doing it that way?

Thats the way its been done

I propose instead a cycle with an oral that makes use of your time and your personal momentum in a better, smarter way.

Weeks 1-12
Test E 500mg/w

Weeks 10-14
Dbol 20mg/d

Weeks 14-18
PCT

Notice that the dbol continues after the test has stopped? Know why? Because its so fucking stupid to stop everything, wait two weeks, then hope like Hell that you can hold onto what you gained after pct is over. Those two weeks where youre not pinning are wasted by almost every single person whos ever run a cycle. Your testosterone levels are dropping as the half-lives are cycled through. You go from on top of the world to 87 year old man in those two weeks (probably closer to three, honestly, but whos counting?). Rather than accept that condition you could be using that oralin this example dbolto maintain some size and strength as you coast into pct. Wouldnt it be nice to spend another two weeks at high levels of performance in order to let that new muscle keep being worked? It certainly would be better than simply rolling into pct on fumes, as your test levels hit zero, and hoping that your recovery doesnt cost you too much of what you just earned.

Youre stronger and more muscular at the end of a cycle than at the beginning, so stop trying to use orals to make fake gains at the start and instead try to hold on to what youve got at the end.
 

Obscured78

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Interesting and on the surface makes some sense. If I was at a point in my life that I wanted to run dbol again I’d do it that way.
 

9TMARE

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there is one question - what means the end of the cycle because most do not know such a concept lol
Lol this true. I guess you have those that will go off the feeling of being the end, those that don’t want an end, those that forget their plan of action entirely.

So this is for those who know they will go X amount of weeks and will stop on point and take it no further haha
 

9TMARE

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Interesting and on the surface makes some sense. If I was at a point in my life that I wanted to run dbol again I’d do it that way.
I think there’s definitely maybe the exception of something like sdrol. I could take that at any point and I feel I’d get the most out of it
 

Swifto

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A few things wrong with this:

1. It doesn't take 4-5 weeks for Test E to "kick in". Androgen levels with climbs after about 48-72 hours

2. It doesn't take "2 weeks" for androgen levels to fall to an acceptable level to begin PCT when you have been using 500mg per week of TE. It more likely 4-5 weeks. So using your theory, that would mean more Dbol which means more side effects (lipids, liver toxicity). So if you'd be using Dbol whilst TE is clearing, thats 8-9 weeks of Dbol which isn't wise IMO. Get your lipids tested after 4 weeks of Dbol and post them please.

Adding Dbol is adding more drugs = more gains. That statement holds true basically until you start using a ridiculous amount of drugs (grams per week).
 

Blswan

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It doesn't take "2 weeks" for androgen levels to fall to an acceptable level to begin PCT
This. Why people start PCT two weeks after last injection fails to register with me. Half live clearance takes 4 weeks to be 97% cleared which is pretty much acceptable. 5 is medical standard cleared but there isn't an appreciable difference between 4 and 5. At two weeks there is as till a sizable chunk of test in your system.
 

Papa Van Smack

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Adding a quality oral 5-6 weeks into a test/deca stack absolutely takes it a step up. I prefer this to jumpstarting a cycle with an oral.
 

9TMARE

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A few things wrong with this:

1. It doesn't take 4-5 weeks for Test E to "kick in". Androgen levels with climbs after about 48-72 hours

2. It doesn't take "2 weeks" for androgen levels to fall to an acceptable level to begin PCT when you have been using 500mg per week of TE. It more likely 4-5 weeks. So using your theory, that would mean more Dbol which means more side effects (lipids, liver toxicity). So if you'd be using Dbol whilst TE is clearing, thats 8-9 weeks of Dbol which isn't wise IMO. Get your lipids tested after 4 weeks of Dbol and post them please.

Adding Dbol is adding more drugs = more gains. That statement holds true basically until you start using a ridiculous amount of drugs (grams per week).
Thank you for your opinion. 👍🏼

1. I think that is a sarcastic statement this person was talking about it I read it correctly.

2. I think he said continue the Dbol 2 weeks cruising into your PCT which if started at week 10 that would make it 6 weeks of Dbol which is not unheard of.

I could be reading it differently then you. At the same time this is not me talking this was taken off another forum.
 

XXL

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This is good. Theory sound amazing. Who’s gonna try first?
 

KillerStack

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4 weeks of an oral just seems pretty much useless to me, whether at the start, middle or end, unless it's for a temporary cosmetic effect. An oral is like adding a turbo to your cycle, so you do 4 weeks at the start and just when things are getting good you drop it? Now your cycle just got 50% weaker when you should be increasing dosages, if anything, to keep the gains coming. Adding it in at the end makes more sense, gains are slowing down so you add more drugs.
No, a basic dbol and test cycle I would start both at a certain dosage and increase both as deemed "necessary".
When you feel you've had enough take a break or switch drugs if you are paranoid about the liver or cholesterol. Saying 4 weeks of orals is pushing the limits is just ridiculous to me. But everyone's risk assessment is different, some feel any time spent on orals is not worth it.
 

9TMARE

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4 weeks of an oral just seems pretty much useless to me, whether at the start, middle or end, unless it's for a temporary cosmetic effect. An oral is like adding a turbo to your cycle, so you do 4 weeks at the start and just when things are getting good you drop it? Now your cycle just got 50% weaker when you should be increasing dosages, if anything, to keep the gains coming. Adding it in at the end makes more sense, gains are slowing down so you add more drugs.
No, a basic dbol and test cycle I would start both at a certain dosage and increase both as deemed "necessary".
When you feel you've had enough take a break or switch drugs if you are paranoid about the liver or cholesterol. Saying 4 weeks of orals is pushing the limits is just ridiculous to me. But everyone's risk assessment is different, some feel any time spent on orals is not worth it.
Great analogy. It makes sense adding it middle or end. Like adding fuel to the fire. I want the maximum potential out of a cycle and most of us know that your strong point is not at the very beginning. So yes that makes complete sense.
I also can not see 4 weeks of orals pushing it. That’s like having a little tiny bite of a cake and then having the slice taken away from you leaving you nothing to finish.
I do think something like Halo you may want to keep at a 2-4 week range.
 

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