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PM Big Dogs, help with quads.

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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I try man. I truly do train as hard as I can. I was born with chicken legs and used to get made fun of for it. I honestly saw the most growth after I gave up barbell squats.
Your quads are looking good brotha. Deep separation between each muscle.

I used to be known for good wheels. Years of a back injury and simply overly becoming fearful of triggering pain I'd avoided squatting down for any reason, thus my quads had atrophied. My legs simply don't grow as quickly as my upper body, as I have a similar build to a Kevin Levrone. In the past I had truly trained my legs hard and loved that manor of training because it reminds me of the grueling wrestling sessions I endured as an athlete.

With consistency I will bring my quads back up.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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For me squats is everything. If I take them out there is a huge difference. Bad back whatever it is a person has I personally believe without squats your gonna miss out on maximum potential.
I am proactively treating my back in a multitude of ways.

Squating hasn't proved to be a too bothersome and I anticipate to continued ability to perform squats.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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That being said, I did break my foot yesterday going batshit on squats..it was max effort bench and squat day…I went way too far lol

it’s just a hairline fracture, so I will take a break from weighted squats but in all honesty probably do a 1000 body weight squats a day to keep going
Heal up brother.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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Agreed, presses and squats are king; but you must find the technique, form, and exercises that allow you to achieve sufficient knee flexion (quads loaded in a stretched position) in the hole while also putting you in mechanically advantageous positions to progressively overload.

I love barbell back squats and still do them. They work well for me but what works even better for me is narrow stance smith squats. I've also seen guys with structures who can't achieve sufficient knee flexion in the hole with squats but can with leg presses.

View attachment 135775
I too like narrow stance smith squats. However I have to be careful not to overly round my lower back when in "the hole" which could lead to a protruding disc for myself.
 

juggy38

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USMC, smith squats out your feet out in front a little bit, turn it into a more “hackish” movement.

another good auto regulation thing is ramp up to your top weight at your desired rep range...ex...squats would be 6 reps, and leg press might be 15. Take off 7-9% of the bar, and do sets of 6 or 15 until you miss a rep. Then your done.

example 300x6 on squat. Drop to 275, sets of 6 until you hit RPR 9ish. Good day you might hit 3 back offs, a bad day you might hit 1
 

lookslikesausage

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I too like narrow stance smith squats. However I have to be careful not to overly round my lower back when in "the hole" which could lead to a protruding disc for myself.
what's your back injury? i'm in a similar position as you by the way. had to drop bar squats and DLs due to the pain i would be in the next day and doing them would leave me unable to wrestle.
 

hawkmoon

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When my legs were their biggest I was all about squatting.

12 sets; 6 up / 6 down pyramid, with 7 plates at the top, then back down.
Heels on a 2x4
Narrow stance
Ass to the grass, or literally hams squashing your calves out.

I literally copied this from Paul DeMayo training legs next to him. Yes, I was strongly influenced - not ashamed to say it.

I could barely walk when doing these, and not just because of fatigue, but because the pump all through my thighs was insane. I would waddle to the water cooler like I had no knees.
As I aged I lost much of the feeling, but was still able to do 6 plates in the same style. That loss of feeling was critical in retrospect.

IMO, you need an exercise that allows full range of motion, constant tension, high load when stretched, and a very high sense of connection.
I could always visualize the muscle working, the fibers contracting and stretching, then my tissues filling with blood. This connection was everything - while progressing loads.
 

alfresco

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My share . . more a written ejaculation, or a core dump if you will.

Really good input and real world results. That is what we need more of.

Squats.

Compound leg exercises are unique and very very individual primarily
because you must take into consideration rotation around 3 axis's of rotation,
and connecting each axis of rotation is a lever arm that has a different
range of motion and strength. That is why some can squat like a king and
some like a peasant.

Other exercises are not that difficult (relative) to perform / figure out.
Curls, calf raises, lateral raises, wrist curls, triceps extensions, leg
extensions, etc. All one axis of rotation. Presses could arguably consider
2 rotations but the difference if so minor as to be insignificant in my opinion.

All bodybuilding exercises and results come down to axis of rotation (single
or multiple) and the lever arm. Easier to find the exercise, then all you
have to contend with is speed of movement, sets, reps, and frequency.
Easy peasy.

If you are one of the lucky ones that can perform squats well and the
muscular growth is commensurate with the weight and you suffer no
injuries (now) that is why you are one of the lucky one. Most are not.
That is not to say that over time will prove you to be invincible (you
are not) it will just take longer to show up. Maybe the lucky ones
are the to ones that take less muscle to perform but with less inherent
risks. I don't have an answer for that or anything else for that matter.
Just some observations, self experimentation and outright mutilation.

That is why hacks, leg presses, etc., were invented . . . the reasons stated
above and the undeniable fact that they are the hardest exercises and most
result producing exercise known to man when properly performed . . .
which is rare. (Some here got straight A's in that class and it shows.)

I really dig what what Big Dave and Hawkmoon said about squats. And I
dig what others have said about the alternatives to squats, and their
observations about which piece of equipment 'feels' right. That right
there shows you how complicated multi-joint exercises are and there is
no one size fits all. But when you find it you are golden and the rest is up
to you. Hard work, And that comes disguised in overalls, aka, hard work.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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what's your back injury? i'm in a similar position as you by the way. had to drop bar squats and DLs due to the pain i would be in the next day and doing them would leave me unable to wrestle.
I don't even know specifically what my injury is. I was on the 50 cal in Iraq when my turret was hit by an anti-aircraft gun. My back has been out of sorts since but it is manageable so long as I maintain my mental state of being. If I had to describe it I would call it lower lumbar protrusion. The military just downplayed it until my contract was near up which is when they claimed they'd deny my physical leaving me unable to re-enlist. The VA just followed suite with downplaying it.

Cool to know that you too are a fellow wrestler. Are we talking Greco/Freestyle - Collegiate or WWE type stuff?
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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My share . . more a written ejaculation, or a core dump if you will.

Really good input and real world results. That is what we need more of.

Squats.

Compound leg exercises are unique and very very individual primarily
because you must take into consideration rotation around 3 axis's of rotation,
and connecting each axis of rotation is a lever arm that has a different
range of motion and strength. That is why some can squat like a king and
some like a peasant.

Other exercises are not that difficult (relative) to perform / figure out.
Curls, calf raises, lateral raises, wrist curls, triceps extensions, leg
extensions, etc. All one axis of rotation. Presses could arguably consider
2 rotations but the difference if so minor as to be insignificant in my opinion.

All bodybuilding exercises and results come down to axis of rotation (single
or multiple) and the lever arm. Easier to find the exercise, then all you
have to contend with is speed of movement, sets, reps, and frequency.
Easy peasy.

If you are one of the lucky ones that can perform squats well and the
muscular growth is commensurate with the weight and you suffer no
injuries (now) that is why you are one of the lucky one. Most are not.
That is not to say that over time will prove you to be invincible (you
are not) it will just take longer to show up. Maybe the lucky ones
are the to ones that take less muscle to perform but with less inherent
risks. I don't have an answer for that or anything else for that matter.
Just some observations, self experimentation and outright mutilation.

That is why hacks, leg presses, etc., were invented . . . the reasons stated
above and the undeniable fact that they are the hardest exercises and most
result producing exercise known to man when properly performed . . .
which is rare. (Some here got straight A's in that class and it shows.)

I really dig what what Big Dave and Hawkmoon said about squats. And I
dig what others have said about the alternatives to squats, and their
observations about which piece of equipment 'feels' right. That right
there shows you how complicated multi-joint exercises are and there is
no one size fits all. But when you find it you are golden and the rest is up
to you. Hard work, And that comes disguised in overalls, aka, hard work.
Thanks for relaying your thoughts alfresco.
 

juggy38

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I don't even know specifically what my injury is. I was on the 50 cal in Iraq when my turret was hit by an anti-aircraft gun. My back has been out of sorts since but it is manageable so long as I maintain my mental state of being. If I had to describe it I would call it lower lumbar protrusion. The military just downplayed it until my contract was near up which is when they claimed they'd deny my physical leaving me unable to re-enlist. The VA just followed suite with downplaying it.

Cool to know that you too are a fellow wrestler. Are we talking Greco/Freestyle - Collegiate or WWE type stuff?

Welcome to the VA. And I have guys with 100% service connection for PTSD and never saw active combat. Makes me so mad
 

lookslikesausage

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I don't even know specifically what my injury is. I was on the 50 cal in Iraq when my turret was hit by an anti-aircraft gun. My back has been out of sorts since but it is manageable so long as I maintain my mental state of being. If I had to describe it I would call it lower lumbar protrusion. The military just downplayed it until my contract was near up which is when they claimed they'd deny my physical leaving me unable to re-enlist. The VA just followed suite with downplaying it.

Cool to know that you too are a fellow wrestler. Are we talking Greco/Freestyle - Collegiate or WWE type stuff?
Mostly folkstyle. i don't compete. i go twice a week to an open mat. We mostly go live in neutral and the winner is the guy who gets the first takedown. I drill some moves from top also sometimes and once in a while i'll do some bjj with a few guys who want to train subs. I actually trained bjj longer than i wrestled but i love wrestling. i haven't trained in bjj since 2009/2010.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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Mostly folkstyle. i don't compete. i go twice a week to an open mat. We mostly go live in neutral and the winner is the guy who gets the first takedown. I drill some moves from top also sometimes and once in a while i'll do some bjj with a few guys who want to train subs. I actually trained bjj longer than i wrestled but i love wrestling. i haven't trained in bjj since 2009/2010.
That's what's up man. Personally I find BJJ to be boring.
I certainly miss throwing guys around. Not to brag but I qualified for the Olympic Roster in Greco-Roman. I personally am not a fan of contemporary scholastic wrestling esp with riding time now being awarded. I just want to take you down and then throw you above my shoulders lol.
 

lookslikesausage

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That's what's up man. Personally I find BJJ to be boring.
I certainly miss throwing guys around. Not to brag but I qualified for the Olympic Roster in Greco-Roman. I personally am not a fan of contemporary scholastic wrestling esp with riding time now being awarded. I just want to take you down and then throw you above my shoulders lol.
Wow! That's awesome. Not a ton of wrestlers walking around with those kind of credentials. The Greco guys are usually the best in the world in Par Tarre. I love watching Greco techniques. I personally love throws but the worse my back gets the harder the twisting is on my spine. Definitely can't do any back arching anymore. Polish Throw and Lat Drop are still ok though. Before i got back into wrestling we had a gold medalist in Greco from Armenia at our club showing some technique.
 

juggy38

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That's what's up man. Personally I find BJJ to be boring.
I certainly miss throwing guys around. Not to brag but I qualified for the Olympic Roster in Greco-Roman. I personally am not a fan of contemporary scholastic wrestling esp with riding time now being awarded. I just want to take you down and then throw you above my shoulders lol.

when I was competing in NAGA BJJ I would cross train at a judo gym to help with the standing game.

fuck that. Getting tossed for an hour sucked lol.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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Wow! That's awesome. Not a ton of wrestlers walking around with those kind of credentials. The Greco guys are usually the best in the world in Par Tarre. I love watching Greco techniques. I personally love throws but the worse my back gets the harder the twisting is on my spine. Definitely can't do any back arching anymore. Polish Throw and Lat Drop are still ok though. Before i got back into wrestling we had a gold medalist in Greco from Armenia at our club showing some technique.
When I have the time I will share what methods/tools have helped me with my back issues, just in case it may help.
 

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