- Joined
- Sep 4, 2007
- Messages
- 799
Jay,
If you want to look i am starting an infant thread on what I will be doing.
If you want to look i am starting an infant thread on what I will be doing.
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PWO : Your reasons and Logic? : Carry on from JT's thread
- Thread starter jayuk
- Start date
Excellent!
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2007
- Messages
- 799
Ahh thanks!
GS
Thanks for showing me this thread, and I will be definately excited to see what happens. The rest that are\about to \ are doing this, I have asked also to post \ log \ feedback into me....if they dont want to do it themselves, Ill definately summise and where possible ask them to verify \ produce results.
Just be honest, which I know you will. If somethings SHIT tell me\put it in this thread.....point it out.....let it be a basis to improve and for others to comment and assist, with the intention of making it better. I thrive on challenge and stress and making things work.....with the help of others...maybe it can be better?..Idealist?...Maybe?...Worth a shot? Hell Yeh!
Just as a side point to others, there is no secret in this as such. I asked those that have been emailed not to post the outline till I had in the main thread later, why?....Well if it went out, there would have been questions and further confusion as I wasnt able to fully complete the overview.
More to the point, I was concerned that it would get misinterpreted, bastardised, and those who wanted to "part" do it, would do it, and then claim it didnt work\ did work\ made no difference......when not understanding the entire logic of the protocol. Thats all.
I remember years back when DC made his protocol available...and every man and his dog decided to do it.....guess what? Many would slate it on board (at least the challenged individuals!) saying it didnt work, too taxing, etc..why?
As they didnt have the patience\understanding of reading and understanding HOW to do the training in the first place.
As I said, we are only as good as the validity of the information we have,
Jayuk
As promised, here is a very light semi-coherent explanation of this approach\protocol which I have found to yield good muscle gains whilst keeping tabs on fat gain. (Please excuse any grammatical errors as I basically brain dumped and run it through Word and posted it!)
Before I get into this further, I think there is some value in pointing out a few things on how I came about this approach
Having trained for over 12 years, I was suddenly required to stop all gym related activities pretty much over-nite by my Doctor.. The reason for this was due to medical treatment which I had to have due to an annoying, more than likely, genetic condition. Post operation, I could not lift more than 10lb for 8 months, and could not lift any heavy weights for another 12 months. Suffice to say that being told not to train overnight is a shock you can not imagine, until it happens! But it did and I had to deal with it. Sadly, for my part I also have a liking for cheese-cakes, chocolates, wheat, grains and anything to do with carbohydrates. Anyway, during this period I turned into something I never thought I would….a somewhat out of shape person! Anyway, I got the go ahead to restart training I knew what needed to be done and I knew how to do it. I trained DC style some 5+ years ago and have never really deviated from it as it works very well for me and allows me to constantly progress.. Right now my compound lifts are (exclusive of bar weight)
• Deadlifts : 220kg x 5
• Squats : 4 plates per side
• Shoulder Smith Press : 120kg x 6
• Dips : with 90kg around waist
Anyway, I suspected that there were far better ways in which to do things where Diet was concerned.. Looking around and seeing trends with what Bodybuilders do, there was a fair number of commonalities which anyone could observe…
-training in phases where we “mass build” and then “cut”
-consuming high amounts of carbohydrates which, in a lot of the times were not needed, but we got used to the “more is better” principle
-not understanding the value and importance of “good fats”
-massive confusion of the so called “window of opportunity”
-to name a few!
Anyway, sometimes it does take an open mind to stop and think with regards to what we are doing and its overall net effectiveness. Is it wise to bulk up, and in the process add pounds of adipose tissue, which we then must cut down. Now many would probably respond with, “Of course it is!” but is it?. What is the net gain of doing both of these? If anyone sits down and works this out, they will realise that overall it will more than likely be negative. What does negative mean? Well in this context it means nearly everything. Effort, cost, time, effect on body, rate of muscle gain, rate of fat gain, health benefits\negative, the whole god damn lot!
So, I decided to do a little more digging and research. Why? Well we are all very good at reading and reacting to new supplement “fads” and then consuming them and wondering if they work, but a lot of the time we fail to educate ourselves on the effects it has on the body, and the reasoning why we take it. This is more than likely inherent to a number of us here…….but we do it.; rightly or wrongly
So off I went, taking all my knowledge and information and cites from various diets, CKD, TKD, Animabolics, Anabolic Diet, High Protein Diets, et al. I had the mindset of trying to deliver something that would allow me to do two things
- allow me to accumulate muscle
- at the same time, allow me to contain, reduce fat gain
Now these two individually are pretty easy, but try and do them together effectively can be challenging. If you follow the general public opinion, many would say that doing both is not entirely possible……..
So off I went, reading, chopping, changing, reading, trying, proving, disproving, proving then finding out it didn’t work in real life, disproving and then realise it DID work in real life, you catch my drift
Now a lot of the diets mentioned above do work, and work very well…but I couldn’t help noticing that there was still something missing…..I couldn’t help asking myself WHY cant we still build high amounts of muscle, with minimal carbohydrates. SO that is where it began……and this is where it is now…………
I would also like to stress a few things again, which I believe are of value in helping\assisting the reader in understanding a little about myself
-I am not here to prove a point and poo-poo anyone or what they do
-I am not here to introduce something brand new; but merely package various parts of diets and then take advantage of physiological responses
-The protocol in question is not the BEST in anything
-The protocol was structured for the 95% of people who are on the boards that are NOT genetically gifted and are everyday people…..trying to put on muscle, training hard and spending hard earned money
-The protocol is and will be evolving and does require adaption and understanding of your body
-It may work for a lot of people, but then it may not!...this is what this thread was about…..to put it forward and provide limited “to date” data and then progress further……
So let’s take a little look at what it is about…..
Diet
First let me lay out the process or phases which I have worked this protocol into. It may be boring for some, but it is VERY important that those that really want to work this and get the results (ie MOST muscle gains with minimal fat gain) that it can produce, must understand the different parts.
Phase 1
This is what I call the Metabolic Shift (MS). What is this? It’s the duration that each body takes to completely re-adjust to using fat as a primary source, protein as a carb source and exogenous carbohydrates as "recovery" source. The process of getting into the metabolic shift can take anything from 5 days to 25+ days. It really does depend on EACH individual and there training background, body type, level of IR (insulin resistance), etc. During this period of the MS, the body will display classic "pre and during ketogenic" signs mainly around mental alertness, fogginess, early morning lack of energy, wanting to get to sleep early at night, slight dip in performance in the Gym; to name a few..
All the above have been listed as the main issues which may be encountered during this MS. Suffice to say that I have yet to experience anyone have ALL of them, and aside from the mental block \ fogginess, which lasts for a day or two, that’s generally it. Anyhow, this is part of the MS. But it’s not just limited to this.
What we want to happen during this entire period is for the body to understand and re-calculate itself in using and converting what it needs; based on what is given.
Each time you come into the MS, IT WILL GET EASIER. I cannot stress this enough, the body is a smart little cookie, and thus will recognise what its doing and will ensure that the change occurs faster each time. Remember the CKD diet?...Remember how the first time you did it it took around 4-5 days to get into the DEEP RED keto stage?...As time went on, and the body got accustomed to it, it look less and less time, whereby at Week 3 or 4 the body generally had got into Medium Red Keto by the end of the second day. THIS IS SIMILAR
So how will you know that you are into the MS? Few things you will notice,
- Energy levels shoot back up
- You will not experience the highs and lows during the day
- Muscles will start to appear fuller (but never as full as a high day of Carbs!)
- Mental alertness will be back and sharp
- Distinctive breath odour will change to normal
- Energy in the GYM will be on par with consuming high amounts of exogenous carbs
- Etc
If none of this is understood; please feel free to let me know, question me, pick it apart, and provide feedback where appropriate.
Diet \ Macro Parameters
Now during the MS, you will need to shift to higher fat content, the more the better, BUT MUST ENSURE you get AT LEAST 1g per LB Protein. The rest you get from FATS (olive oil, flax seed oil, coconut oil, meats, you catch my drift)
The duration of staying on this higher fat mode is dependent on the aforementioned, and when YOU feel the body has returned to a some what energised condition. As mentioned before, this can be 5 days; but it can also be up to 25 days!
During this period you go about your business in the gym and daily life per normal. You will find that you will need to reduce the intensity and work rate within the gym during this period as there are a fair few physiogical changes occurring within the body!
The ONLY source of EXOGENOUS carbs during the MS, will be Pre and Post WO. I cannot stress this enough! We will have limited resources available to get Carbs from Glycogen, but what our main aim durng this period is, is to get the body "fat adapted".
Pre and Post Workout Nutrition
I can really bore people with the benefits of what I am about to say and the basis of why I am recommended the following ingredients, but to be honest it’s all pretty obvious. For those that want to see this, just shout me and ill provide the reason and logic of recommending them
Pre work-out : 30-50 mins before workout
Protein: Preferred Source: 40-50g BCAA, Secondary source: 40-50g Whey Protein Isolate
Carbohydrates: 25g-35g steel cut rolled oats (or normal oats) w/ 10-20g WMS
Leucine : 5g
OKG : 5g
AKG: 5g
Beta Alanine 1g-5g (depends how responsive you are to this: start low then re-evaluate)
CM\CEE : 5g
5g Glutamine Peptides
Post workout or during the end of the workout
Protein: Preferred Source: 40-50g BCAA, Secondary source: 40-50g Whey Protein Isolate
Carbohydrates: 25-35g steel cut rolled oats (or normal oats) w/ 10-20g WMS
Leucine : 5g
OKG : 5g
AKG: 5g
Beta Alanine 1g-5g
CM\CEE : 5g
5g Glutamine Peptides
I then want you to follow this up, at around 45-60 mins later, with Whey Protein Isolate 70g
Aside from the above, you must restrict ALL other carbs during the MS.
Post Metabolic Shift
Once you have gauged that you have gone into and through the MS, things start happening, which are conducive to why you are doing this!
The diet\ profile can now change somewhat where you ramp up Protein to 2g / 1LB of BW (at first!) and get the rest of your calories from FATS. (again, the same carbs!)
You now revert to your general mode of training, utilise the PWO as outlined which you took during the MS and keep to that, until such time where you feel that you can reduce\add carbs to the PRE\PWO protocol. You should not ever need to add MORE then 15-20g
During this POST MS period, Protein is our key. We are looking for Protein as the recovery agent and Protein as the demand supply carbohydrate agent. Some may notice during this period that they have GlucoG working sooo well that there blood glucose rises normally by about 0.5-1 mmol\ml. Unless you have a Blood Glucose monitor it will be hard to tell....but as you have been OFF the carbs as a meal to meal source of fuel, you will be extremely sensitive to any rises \ falls in Blood Glucose.
What to eat?
I have PURPOSEFULLY not outlined a food guide. Why? Well simple, I do not know what people like\dislike, I do not know peoples eating\religious beliefs, I do not know what you have access too, and to be really honest I would not even want to begin telling you what to eat, as long as you follow the outline of the diet, in term of fats\protein and selective Exogenous carbs.
Few notes that I have taken and will put here (psuedo FAQ)
Supplements : I cannot stress the importance of KR-ALA. Please get this supplement! I also cannot stress the importance of EV Coconut Oil. PLEASE DO NOT USE MCT or CHEAP CONONUT OIL!
KR-ALA needs to be taken as follows: 100mg after you have downed the POST WO nutrition and then 100-150mg 20 mins later.
Now, those that have GlucoG in full swing (and that will be majority) will observe from time to time that you may need to control BG (yes even the rise of 0.5mmol.ml will be felt on this protocol....then just take 50mg of KRALA; if you can.
Cardio : During the MS phase, cardio does help! I need you to do the following NO MORE THEN 4 times per week.
20 mins Morning : 5mins 5.5KPH flat gradient, 5 Mins 5KPH, 5 mins 6.5 KPH, 5 mins 5.5 KPH and 5 Mins 6.5 KPH ( the purpose of doing this, this way is because I want a range of VO2 not a constant, but I also want it to be conducive to fat loss and overall optimal health).
20 mins Evening: Repeat the same!
Now if you are post-MS, you can follow a cardio routine as above, but ONLY once per day and no more then 5 times per week! Yes it will lead to faster fat loss, and will also provide for excess substrate utilisation.
Following EACH cardio session you must take in FAT\PROTEIN in the ratios that match your BW and that are laid out for each phase.
Before each cardio, you can take isolate\concentrate\bcaa at no more then 15-20g
Acetly L Carnitine : I want you to take this twice per day at no more then 1.5g each time! (very important for fat loss and oxidation, mental alertness, and overall mood enhancer)
Green Tea Extact : 3g per day is fine at (95%) if you can.
Multi vitamin \ mineral \ general anti oxidant stack (try and get one decent one with an all round good profile that has MT, NAC,Vitamins, Minerals, CQ10, and the likes)
If you are aiming for maximum fat loss with added muscle mass (all be it limited) then throw in Yohimibhe HCL at no more than 20mg per day (as always, check to ensure you do not have any issues\conditions which would cause the ingestion of ANY supplement a negative reaction to you! THIS IS YOUR BODY, BE RESPONSIBLE.)
This is the general manner in which to start this protocol. There will be changes that need to be made to each diet, but YOU will be the better judge to this than ANYONE else. You will notice if you are recovering well, if you have energy throughout the day, overall mental alertness, etc etc...and then let me know and we can make minor changes.....and keep the furnace going!
Training Style : This program works very well on trainees that use short HIT style workouts \ DC style workouts.....if you do a large amount of volume, this diet will need to be adjusted in terms of Protein \ PWO and Carbs PRE workout. The cynic in me thinks that “high volume” aligned people will use this as a way in which to prove it cant work for them. Rubbish.
Refeeds : Do you need them? I would say only once every 15 days! Why? As a large influx of exogenous CHO will seriously shock the body! But on the people that are doing this thus far, no one has needed to do this YET........as the Protein keeps them full Carbohydrate requirements.
Fibre, where is it ? : You can add them via fruits \ oats but only consume them around workouts and ensure you have a good balance……fruits have fructose : liver glycogen.
Why do I need rolled oats? : Many are taking them separately and then downing the liqiud mix, others are throwing it in a blender and taking a flask. The reason why there is rolled oats there is so that it a) reduces the overall GI, b) provides a sustained source of near-immediate energy source c) ensures there is a lesser degree of insulin drop
Will all this fat be harmful? : Not if you take the right fats and in the right amounts, and there are no pre-existing conditions which may cause issues.
What about my cholesterol? I am sorry to burst the bubble of what we ALL understand about Fat and Cholesterol but I MUST point this out!
Our whole understanding of cholesterol and how\why it is bad for us is SEVERELY questionable! The catalyst for investigation in this was based on tests on animals which didn’t eat high meats. Moreover, it is “oxidised cholesterol” and not cholesterol per se that causes atherosclerotic plague build-up. But this is an enormous topic and not one I want to get into right now.
Can I do this in phases? Yes! Ideally! Give it 6-12 weeks and watch what it does…..expect above-average to serious body recomposition changes
Can I add\remove protein : Yes, but do it VERY gradually. GlucoG can provide 60% of required energy sources (research data controlled) and so the Protein is key in this diet. I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH
Can\Should I take digestive enzymes? : After you get over the MS, this may not be necessary, but to be really honest they should be part of a normal diet anyway (Bromelain etc)
Will I lose muscle during the Pre MS stage ? : Not if calories are there, and you do enough in the gym to stimulate muscular stress.
I hate Cardio! : So do I…but in a variable state it can be EXTREMELY effective on this diet
How do I know that I am replenishing my glycogen PWO? Well the PWO nutrition protocol serves two purposes, one is to prepare the body for resynthesis, and the other is to supply it with the reactionary elements which will allow it to re-fuel in a controlled manner
Example
200lb Male (all other credentials average)
Caloric Profile
12 cals / 1lb for drastic fat loss (not rec)
15 cals / 1lb for decent level of fat loss with average muscle gain
16-18 cals / 1lb for added muscle mass whilst minimal fat gain
Pre-MS
Total Calories required : 17 x 200 : 3400 calories per day
Protein Requirements : 1g x 200 : 200g : 800 calories
3400 – 800 : 2600 calories remaining
Fat Requirements : 2600 calories \ 9 : 288g
(DO NOT COUNT PWO CALORIES)
Post-MS
ONLY change from above, is that we now ramp up from 1g to 2g protein, and then re-adjust the fat content.
Total Calories required : 17 x 200 : 3400 calories per day
Protein Requirements : 2g x 200 : 400g : 1600 calories
3400 – 1600 : 1800 calories remaining
1800 / 9 : 200g Fat
Summary
Pre MS : We want to use Fat as a primary fuel to ensure our body gets fat adapted as fast as possible
Post-MS : We want to take advantage of GlucoG to serve\provide our body with “on demand” glycogen requirements
Closing note
Anyone trying this diet needs to approach it with a questionable mind! WHAT! I hear you say! Yes! You need to ask yourself what you do now, and how can I improve it, and if it DOES need improving explore this protocol It is not a solution for everyone, it is merely “another” protocol which allows you to get from Point A to Point B….possibly more economically.
Jayuk
Before I get into this further, I think there is some value in pointing out a few things on how I came about this approach
Having trained for over 12 years, I was suddenly required to stop all gym related activities pretty much over-nite by my Doctor.. The reason for this was due to medical treatment which I had to have due to an annoying, more than likely, genetic condition. Post operation, I could not lift more than 10lb for 8 months, and could not lift any heavy weights for another 12 months. Suffice to say that being told not to train overnight is a shock you can not imagine, until it happens! But it did and I had to deal with it. Sadly, for my part I also have a liking for cheese-cakes, chocolates, wheat, grains and anything to do with carbohydrates. Anyway, during this period I turned into something I never thought I would….a somewhat out of shape person! Anyway, I got the go ahead to restart training I knew what needed to be done and I knew how to do it. I trained DC style some 5+ years ago and have never really deviated from it as it works very well for me and allows me to constantly progress.. Right now my compound lifts are (exclusive of bar weight)
• Deadlifts : 220kg x 5
• Squats : 4 plates per side
• Shoulder Smith Press : 120kg x 6
• Dips : with 90kg around waist
Anyway, I suspected that there were far better ways in which to do things where Diet was concerned.. Looking around and seeing trends with what Bodybuilders do, there was a fair number of commonalities which anyone could observe…
-training in phases where we “mass build” and then “cut”
-consuming high amounts of carbohydrates which, in a lot of the times were not needed, but we got used to the “more is better” principle
-not understanding the value and importance of “good fats”
-massive confusion of the so called “window of opportunity”
-to name a few!
Anyway, sometimes it does take an open mind to stop and think with regards to what we are doing and its overall net effectiveness. Is it wise to bulk up, and in the process add pounds of adipose tissue, which we then must cut down. Now many would probably respond with, “Of course it is!” but is it?. What is the net gain of doing both of these? If anyone sits down and works this out, they will realise that overall it will more than likely be negative. What does negative mean? Well in this context it means nearly everything. Effort, cost, time, effect on body, rate of muscle gain, rate of fat gain, health benefits\negative, the whole god damn lot!
So, I decided to do a little more digging and research. Why? Well we are all very good at reading and reacting to new supplement “fads” and then consuming them and wondering if they work, but a lot of the time we fail to educate ourselves on the effects it has on the body, and the reasoning why we take it. This is more than likely inherent to a number of us here…….but we do it.; rightly or wrongly
So off I went, taking all my knowledge and information and cites from various diets, CKD, TKD, Animabolics, Anabolic Diet, High Protein Diets, et al. I had the mindset of trying to deliver something that would allow me to do two things
- allow me to accumulate muscle
- at the same time, allow me to contain, reduce fat gain
Now these two individually are pretty easy, but try and do them together effectively can be challenging. If you follow the general public opinion, many would say that doing both is not entirely possible……..
So off I went, reading, chopping, changing, reading, trying, proving, disproving, proving then finding out it didn’t work in real life, disproving and then realise it DID work in real life, you catch my drift
Now a lot of the diets mentioned above do work, and work very well…but I couldn’t help noticing that there was still something missing…..I couldn’t help asking myself WHY cant we still build high amounts of muscle, with minimal carbohydrates. SO that is where it began……and this is where it is now…………
I would also like to stress a few things again, which I believe are of value in helping\assisting the reader in understanding a little about myself
-I am not here to prove a point and poo-poo anyone or what they do
-I am not here to introduce something brand new; but merely package various parts of diets and then take advantage of physiological responses
-The protocol in question is not the BEST in anything
-The protocol was structured for the 95% of people who are on the boards that are NOT genetically gifted and are everyday people…..trying to put on muscle, training hard and spending hard earned money
-The protocol is and will be evolving and does require adaption and understanding of your body
-It may work for a lot of people, but then it may not!...this is what this thread was about…..to put it forward and provide limited “to date” data and then progress further……
So let’s take a little look at what it is about…..
Diet
First let me lay out the process or phases which I have worked this protocol into. It may be boring for some, but it is VERY important that those that really want to work this and get the results (ie MOST muscle gains with minimal fat gain) that it can produce, must understand the different parts.
Phase 1
This is what I call the Metabolic Shift (MS). What is this? It’s the duration that each body takes to completely re-adjust to using fat as a primary source, protein as a carb source and exogenous carbohydrates as "recovery" source. The process of getting into the metabolic shift can take anything from 5 days to 25+ days. It really does depend on EACH individual and there training background, body type, level of IR (insulin resistance), etc. During this period of the MS, the body will display classic "pre and during ketogenic" signs mainly around mental alertness, fogginess, early morning lack of energy, wanting to get to sleep early at night, slight dip in performance in the Gym; to name a few..
All the above have been listed as the main issues which may be encountered during this MS. Suffice to say that I have yet to experience anyone have ALL of them, and aside from the mental block \ fogginess, which lasts for a day or two, that’s generally it. Anyhow, this is part of the MS. But it’s not just limited to this.
What we want to happen during this entire period is for the body to understand and re-calculate itself in using and converting what it needs; based on what is given.
Each time you come into the MS, IT WILL GET EASIER. I cannot stress this enough, the body is a smart little cookie, and thus will recognise what its doing and will ensure that the change occurs faster each time. Remember the CKD diet?...Remember how the first time you did it it took around 4-5 days to get into the DEEP RED keto stage?...As time went on, and the body got accustomed to it, it look less and less time, whereby at Week 3 or 4 the body generally had got into Medium Red Keto by the end of the second day. THIS IS SIMILAR
So how will you know that you are into the MS? Few things you will notice,
- Energy levels shoot back up
- You will not experience the highs and lows during the day
- Muscles will start to appear fuller (but never as full as a high day of Carbs!)
- Mental alertness will be back and sharp
- Distinctive breath odour will change to normal
- Energy in the GYM will be on par with consuming high amounts of exogenous carbs
- Etc
If none of this is understood; please feel free to let me know, question me, pick it apart, and provide feedback where appropriate.
Diet \ Macro Parameters
Now during the MS, you will need to shift to higher fat content, the more the better, BUT MUST ENSURE you get AT LEAST 1g per LB Protein. The rest you get from FATS (olive oil, flax seed oil, coconut oil, meats, you catch my drift)
The duration of staying on this higher fat mode is dependent on the aforementioned, and when YOU feel the body has returned to a some what energised condition. As mentioned before, this can be 5 days; but it can also be up to 25 days!
During this period you go about your business in the gym and daily life per normal. You will find that you will need to reduce the intensity and work rate within the gym during this period as there are a fair few physiogical changes occurring within the body!
The ONLY source of EXOGENOUS carbs during the MS, will be Pre and Post WO. I cannot stress this enough! We will have limited resources available to get Carbs from Glycogen, but what our main aim durng this period is, is to get the body "fat adapted".
Pre and Post Workout Nutrition
I can really bore people with the benefits of what I am about to say and the basis of why I am recommended the following ingredients, but to be honest it’s all pretty obvious. For those that want to see this, just shout me and ill provide the reason and logic of recommending them
Pre work-out : 30-50 mins before workout
Protein: Preferred Source: 40-50g BCAA, Secondary source: 40-50g Whey Protein Isolate
Carbohydrates: 25g-35g steel cut rolled oats (or normal oats) w/ 10-20g WMS
Leucine : 5g
OKG : 5g
AKG: 5g
Beta Alanine 1g-5g (depends how responsive you are to this: start low then re-evaluate)
CM\CEE : 5g
5g Glutamine Peptides
Post workout or during the end of the workout
Protein: Preferred Source: 40-50g BCAA, Secondary source: 40-50g Whey Protein Isolate
Carbohydrates: 25-35g steel cut rolled oats (or normal oats) w/ 10-20g WMS
Leucine : 5g
OKG : 5g
AKG: 5g
Beta Alanine 1g-5g
CM\CEE : 5g
5g Glutamine Peptides
I then want you to follow this up, at around 45-60 mins later, with Whey Protein Isolate 70g
Aside from the above, you must restrict ALL other carbs during the MS.
Post Metabolic Shift
Once you have gauged that you have gone into and through the MS, things start happening, which are conducive to why you are doing this!
The diet\ profile can now change somewhat where you ramp up Protein to 2g / 1LB of BW (at first!) and get the rest of your calories from FATS. (again, the same carbs!)
You now revert to your general mode of training, utilise the PWO as outlined which you took during the MS and keep to that, until such time where you feel that you can reduce\add carbs to the PRE\PWO protocol. You should not ever need to add MORE then 15-20g
During this POST MS period, Protein is our key. We are looking for Protein as the recovery agent and Protein as the demand supply carbohydrate agent. Some may notice during this period that they have GlucoG working sooo well that there blood glucose rises normally by about 0.5-1 mmol\ml. Unless you have a Blood Glucose monitor it will be hard to tell....but as you have been OFF the carbs as a meal to meal source of fuel, you will be extremely sensitive to any rises \ falls in Blood Glucose.
What to eat?
I have PURPOSEFULLY not outlined a food guide. Why? Well simple, I do not know what people like\dislike, I do not know peoples eating\religious beliefs, I do not know what you have access too, and to be really honest I would not even want to begin telling you what to eat, as long as you follow the outline of the diet, in term of fats\protein and selective Exogenous carbs.
Few notes that I have taken and will put here (psuedo FAQ)
Supplements : I cannot stress the importance of KR-ALA. Please get this supplement! I also cannot stress the importance of EV Coconut Oil. PLEASE DO NOT USE MCT or CHEAP CONONUT OIL!
KR-ALA needs to be taken as follows: 100mg after you have downed the POST WO nutrition and then 100-150mg 20 mins later.
Now, those that have GlucoG in full swing (and that will be majority) will observe from time to time that you may need to control BG (yes even the rise of 0.5mmol.ml will be felt on this protocol....then just take 50mg of KRALA; if you can.
Cardio : During the MS phase, cardio does help! I need you to do the following NO MORE THEN 4 times per week.
20 mins Morning : 5mins 5.5KPH flat gradient, 5 Mins 5KPH, 5 mins 6.5 KPH, 5 mins 5.5 KPH and 5 Mins 6.5 KPH ( the purpose of doing this, this way is because I want a range of VO2 not a constant, but I also want it to be conducive to fat loss and overall optimal health).
20 mins Evening: Repeat the same!
Now if you are post-MS, you can follow a cardio routine as above, but ONLY once per day and no more then 5 times per week! Yes it will lead to faster fat loss, and will also provide for excess substrate utilisation.
Following EACH cardio session you must take in FAT\PROTEIN in the ratios that match your BW and that are laid out for each phase.
Before each cardio, you can take isolate\concentrate\bcaa at no more then 15-20g
Acetly L Carnitine : I want you to take this twice per day at no more then 1.5g each time! (very important for fat loss and oxidation, mental alertness, and overall mood enhancer)
Green Tea Extact : 3g per day is fine at (95%) if you can.
Multi vitamin \ mineral \ general anti oxidant stack (try and get one decent one with an all round good profile that has MT, NAC,Vitamins, Minerals, CQ10, and the likes)
If you are aiming for maximum fat loss with added muscle mass (all be it limited) then throw in Yohimibhe HCL at no more than 20mg per day (as always, check to ensure you do not have any issues\conditions which would cause the ingestion of ANY supplement a negative reaction to you! THIS IS YOUR BODY, BE RESPONSIBLE.)
This is the general manner in which to start this protocol. There will be changes that need to be made to each diet, but YOU will be the better judge to this than ANYONE else. You will notice if you are recovering well, if you have energy throughout the day, overall mental alertness, etc etc...and then let me know and we can make minor changes.....and keep the furnace going!
Training Style : This program works very well on trainees that use short HIT style workouts \ DC style workouts.....if you do a large amount of volume, this diet will need to be adjusted in terms of Protein \ PWO and Carbs PRE workout. The cynic in me thinks that “high volume” aligned people will use this as a way in which to prove it cant work for them. Rubbish.
Refeeds : Do you need them? I would say only once every 15 days! Why? As a large influx of exogenous CHO will seriously shock the body! But on the people that are doing this thus far, no one has needed to do this YET........as the Protein keeps them full Carbohydrate requirements.
Fibre, where is it ? : You can add them via fruits \ oats but only consume them around workouts and ensure you have a good balance……fruits have fructose : liver glycogen.
Why do I need rolled oats? : Many are taking them separately and then downing the liqiud mix, others are throwing it in a blender and taking a flask. The reason why there is rolled oats there is so that it a) reduces the overall GI, b) provides a sustained source of near-immediate energy source c) ensures there is a lesser degree of insulin drop
Will all this fat be harmful? : Not if you take the right fats and in the right amounts, and there are no pre-existing conditions which may cause issues.
What about my cholesterol? I am sorry to burst the bubble of what we ALL understand about Fat and Cholesterol but I MUST point this out!
Our whole understanding of cholesterol and how\why it is bad for us is SEVERELY questionable! The catalyst for investigation in this was based on tests on animals which didn’t eat high meats. Moreover, it is “oxidised cholesterol” and not cholesterol per se that causes atherosclerotic plague build-up. But this is an enormous topic and not one I want to get into right now.
Can I do this in phases? Yes! Ideally! Give it 6-12 weeks and watch what it does…..expect above-average to serious body recomposition changes
Can I add\remove protein : Yes, but do it VERY gradually. GlucoG can provide 60% of required energy sources (research data controlled) and so the Protein is key in this diet. I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH
Can\Should I take digestive enzymes? : After you get over the MS, this may not be necessary, but to be really honest they should be part of a normal diet anyway (Bromelain etc)
Will I lose muscle during the Pre MS stage ? : Not if calories are there, and you do enough in the gym to stimulate muscular stress.
I hate Cardio! : So do I…but in a variable state it can be EXTREMELY effective on this diet
How do I know that I am replenishing my glycogen PWO? Well the PWO nutrition protocol serves two purposes, one is to prepare the body for resynthesis, and the other is to supply it with the reactionary elements which will allow it to re-fuel in a controlled manner
Example
200lb Male (all other credentials average)
Caloric Profile
12 cals / 1lb for drastic fat loss (not rec)
15 cals / 1lb for decent level of fat loss with average muscle gain
16-18 cals / 1lb for added muscle mass whilst minimal fat gain
Pre-MS
Total Calories required : 17 x 200 : 3400 calories per day
Protein Requirements : 1g x 200 : 200g : 800 calories
3400 – 800 : 2600 calories remaining
Fat Requirements : 2600 calories \ 9 : 288g
(DO NOT COUNT PWO CALORIES)
Post-MS
ONLY change from above, is that we now ramp up from 1g to 2g protein, and then re-adjust the fat content.
Total Calories required : 17 x 200 : 3400 calories per day
Protein Requirements : 2g x 200 : 400g : 1600 calories
3400 – 1600 : 1800 calories remaining
1800 / 9 : 200g Fat
Summary
Pre MS : We want to use Fat as a primary fuel to ensure our body gets fat adapted as fast as possible
Post-MS : We want to take advantage of GlucoG to serve\provide our body with “on demand” glycogen requirements
Closing note
Anyone trying this diet needs to approach it with a questionable mind! WHAT! I hear you say! Yes! You need to ask yourself what you do now, and how can I improve it, and if it DOES need improving explore this protocol It is not a solution for everyone, it is merely “another” protocol which allows you to get from Point A to Point B….possibly more economically.
Jayuk
Last edited:
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- Aug 29, 2003
- Messages
- 5,165
Thats what i wanted to see!
See now that gives us a totally different outlook. Looks to me like it supplies suffecient calories and COULD work. I would DEFINATELY suggest much higher protein, as probably HALF of that... if you are correct... will be converted through GlucoG for glycogen replenishment through a rigorous lifting schedule.....dont you agree?
I agree...but time contraints etc...better late then never anyway
100% spot on. The starting point Post-MS is 2g / 1lb of BW. Now, we know, or rather there is some research to suggest that consuming 5g / 1lb of bodyweight is when you start to get into questionable effects on the body.....but we NEVER need to hit that figure. 2.2g-3g for those REALLY pushing themselves (be it from volume or DC style training) is where it should go to.
Jayuk
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- Sep 4, 2007
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- 799
Jay I got a couple questions... I'll shoot you a pm
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 508
Nice post man... thanks for that detailed layout!
Quick questions...
refeed only done every 15th day? Any specific reason for this.. many other diets TKD,CKD,Anabolic ect suggest 5... im just curious and woul dlike to hear it from you
Would you ever replace PWO oats with in favor with strictly WMS?
not to nit pick or anything.... but looks like your math was a little off...
------------------------ONLY change from above, is that we now ramp up from 1g to 2g protein, and then re-adjust the fat content.
Total Calories required : 17 x 200 : 3400 calories per day
Protein Requirements : 2g x 200 : 400g : 800 calories wouldnt that be 1600 calories?
3400 – 800 : 2600 calories remaining 3400-1600 =1800
2600 / 9 : 288g Fat 200
so 2/1 ration basically is a good place to start?
Quick questions...
refeed only done every 15th day? Any specific reason for this.. many other diets TKD,CKD,Anabolic ect suggest 5... im just curious and woul dlike to hear it from you
Would you ever replace PWO oats with in favor with strictly WMS?
not to nit pick or anything.... but looks like your math was a little off...
------------------------ONLY change from above, is that we now ramp up from 1g to 2g protein, and then re-adjust the fat content.
Total Calories required : 17 x 200 : 3400 calories per day
Protein Requirements : 2g x 200 : 400g : 800 calories wouldnt that be 1600 calories?
3400 – 800 : 2600 calories remaining 3400-1600 =1800
2600 / 9 : 288g Fat 200
so 2/1 ration basically is a good place to start?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2007
- Messages
- 71
what about veggies? how many (if any) are allowed with each meal? I mean, we don't have to just eat meat and oil for all meals do we? Also, does the pre/post protein amounts from the BCAA and whey isolate (70 grams) count towards the daily protein allowed?
And should the 70 grams be adjusted for those with a smaller bodyweight?
And should the 70 grams be adjusted for those with a smaller bodyweight?
Once in the MS, you can get away with 10-15g of fiberous carbs each meal..but it must be observed to ensure your BG does not creep up.
Not as such, this boils down to culinary skills to be honest..some literally do take it as you have described it, others get fancy with omlettes, mixes, stews etc etc
No. This is extra. The 70g after DOES count
50-70 is a good starting point...50 b eing the minimum. Work it around the daily reqs.
Hope that helps
Jayuk
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 15
I've been on jayuk's protocol for about a week and i'm feeling energetic now.The water loss has stopped and i'm holding onto my weight now.i'm still getting stronger in the gym and my pumps are good.I'm not feeling hungry as i was when i first started, but i must admit i feel it a little just about when it's time to eat.(which is every 2.5 hrs approx).
On thing i have noticed is that my skin especially my face is looking alive if you catch my drift.One other thing i'd like to say is that i have never done well on low carb before,i'm always moody and tired but doing it the way it is outlined by jayuk really helped me overcome this.
On thing i have noticed is that my skin especially my face is looking alive if you catch my drift.One other thing i'd like to say is that i have never done well on low carb before,i'm always moody and tired but doing it the way it is outlined by jayuk really helped me overcome this.
Interesting....and as outlined....wait till you start adding muscle now...youll realise that when you do, you can add minimal weight (as its a slant to more lean gains) and look alot bigger...rather then adding fat and muscle........
Jayuk
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2007
- Messages
- 799
I too made it through the first phase but have stalled before really upping my protein because of various issues. Mainly I am waiting for protein to come in because my appetite has been shot and it has gotten hard to want to eat more of the same foods. I don't blame this on the diet becaus eI go through this every few months. Sometimes I need to take a couple days where I will eat less protein and less overall and get my head back together.
So far I have gone down 6 pounds then rebounded 3-4 and am VERY happy with the look it has provided. I am leaner and getting more compliments than ever before even on my arms which suck ha. Within the next week I will be upping my protein and Jay says to do. in about 3-4 weeks I will be coming off a very successful but VERY long cycle.I am a bit scared to eat like this when coming off but if the next 3-4 weeks go as well as I suspect they will then i will trust jays protocol for PCT. I actually think it might be better due to the overall effects fat have on testosterone levels VS the effects carbs have on them.
So far I have gone down 6 pounds then rebounded 3-4 and am VERY happy with the look it has provided. I am leaner and getting more compliments than ever before even on my arms which suck ha. Within the next week I will be upping my protein and Jay says to do. in about 3-4 weeks I will be coming off a very successful but VERY long cycle.I am a bit scared to eat like this when coming off but if the next 3-4 weeks go as well as I suspect they will then i will trust jays protocol for PCT. I actually think it might be better due to the overall effects fat have on testosterone levels VS the effects carbs have on them.
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