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Question for DNP gurus

Gunsmith

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Had a discussion with a couple competitors today on contest prep protocols , one was a huge fan of DNP at low does for the whole prep saying it was unbeatable for fat loss while not compromising your health as much as Clen/T3 and explained how it's great for insulin sensitivity , and NOT having any effect on the thyroid so there wouldn't be any suppressed thyroid function after the prep. He even said how it was beneficial during a growth phase to speed up the metabolism and allow you to start your diet with a much higher calorie intake. (I've never heard any use it in a growth/bulking phase)

I'd heard the part about the thyroid mentioned years ago and it seemed very debatable.

The other fella carried on about how terribly toxic DNP was being used in rat poison explosiveand all that and how it shut down the thyroid more than moderate to higher dose T3 did.

I've been trying to find some threads about it's effect on thyroid function in my spare time on my phone but haven't been able to nail anything down.

Do any of you guys that are proponents of DNP (or anyone else) have any input on how it has effected your thyroid and if there was any down regulation.

Or does anyone have any links to previous post on the subject.
 

Virtuous

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Conciliator is the Bible in this. Alas, he’s taken up ultra running (I think) and no longer posts.

However, here’s some links to the topic:





And then there’s this:

Simkins S 1937 Dinitrophenol and desiccated thyroid in the treatment of
obesity. JAMA 108:2110–2119


"The extra energy of metabolism is derived mainly from fat and practically not at all from protein or carbohydrate. Consequently, dinitrophenol in therapeutic dosage produces no breakdown of significant amounts of body protein, even with patients on an inadequate protein intake. This is in marked contrast with the very consdierable increase in nitrogen excretion observed in patients undergoing treatment with thyroid. The fat is used completely and satisfactorily broken down, as no ketone bodies are found in urine. There is a no hyperlipidemia or constant change in the fixed and fatty acids of the blood."
 

Virtuous

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The upshot here is that I love DNP and use it as a selective tool for health improvements and body composition assistance as warranted, and in my experience has never impacted thyroid health
 

btails

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I've never heard of anyone using dnp successfully while bulking.

Zaps energy completely.

I was on something like 130iu Humalog 750dnp daily with 1300g carbs.. made me blow up visually.. just water though and deflated like a balloon afterwards. Strength during that time was shit so idk how you can actually accrue muscle tissue.

I think it's better to use during mini diets with psmf during a bulk
 

D-NUTZ

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Anecdotally (and logically it makes sense), someone running DNP will have their thyroid slow down to try and slow down the increased metabolism. It won't be in a suppressive way like someone taking exogenous thyroid would do, but moreso the pituitary just sends like TSH as it doesn't want more thyroid to be produced. I have seen some bloods of someone having lower TSH and therefor lower ft3 and ft4 (very low but still in range) and then seeing numbers go back to their personal normal shortly after stopping the DNP.

But I would have to agree more with the first guy in your post (minus the growth phase). Its a very safe (when used correctly) compound to improve results with very little effect on blood work (if any). I would rather someone used DNP than start to use stuff like 100+mcg of clen or 50+mcg of t3. And it is very good for sensitivity (even at a dose like 100mg a day) so its perfect for quick clean up phases.
 

juggy38

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Thyroid bounces back quickly, even from exogenous thyroid meds. Dnp suppression would bounce back quickly also…I would think
 

D-NUTZ

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Thyroid bounces back quickly, even from exogenous thyroid meds. Dnp suppression would bounce back quickly also…I would think
It has in my personal experience AND in my client's labs for both assuming there is no underlying issues.
 

weedle

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I've never heard of anyone using dnp successfully while bulking.

Zaps energy completely.

I was on something like 130iu Humalog 750dnp daily with 1300g carbs.. made me blow up visually.. just water though and deflated like a balloon afterwards. Strength during that time was shit so idk how you can actually accrue muscle tissue.

I think it's better to use during mini diets with psmf during a bulk
I’m pretty hardcore when it comes to taking DNP, but I have no clue how you could even function taking 750mg of DNP along with 1300g of carbs.
I would be soaking wet 24/7 on that regimen and the lethargy would be real.
 

Virtuous

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I’m pretty hardcore when it comes to taking DNP, but I have no clue how you could even function taking 750mg of DNP along with 1300g of carbs.
I would be soaking wet 24/7 on that regimen and the lethargy would be real.
Lol I was thinking that when I read it. I don’t eat 1,300g of total macros on DNP, much less carbs. Man must be a furnace.
 

Elvia1023

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Geno sells DNP, T3 and Clen. There is a reason I wanted to stock DNP in our other shop. It's much more effective than t3 and clen and I think it's safer but only when used at a sensible dose (250mg for example). Although take a massive dose of any of those drugs and you will end up in hospital. The issue with dnp is someone could really struggle and be in a bad place by taking just 3 or 4 caps per day. So treat it with respect and run 1 cap (no more than 2) per day and the results will be amazing.

The forum's have alsorts of nonsense posted about the likes of dnp and insulin. Although more people are educated due to the supply of information so you don't see bad info as much as you did in the past but it's still funny some of the things I hear. I have had guys who run 200mg tren daily and grams of gear and high orals tell me they won't use dnp because it's poison/dangerous. If something is posted online it's often duplicated and the articles written on DNP in the past were copied and pasted on every forum and that's why people feel the way they do. I have sold DNP to a massive amount of people on here so I know it's super popular but some don't like to post about it because of it's old reputation but the more threads I see on it the more I see people use it and understand it. I still get people wanting 50mg caps because they think they could end up in hospital from taking 250mg per day though.

As posted a slight reduction in thyroid but nothing to be concerned with. Blood glucose will also initially increase on DNP but over time it will decrease and post cycle your insulin sensitivity will be maximized. Thyroid shouldn't be too much of a concern because DNP should be used for shorter periods especially if you are a competitor (imo). Competitors know how to diet and they shouldn't need to lose too much fat so I would recommend using it later in prep when you are already lean but just need to get the last bit of fat off.
 

Elvia1023

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I've never heard of anyone using dnp successfully while bulking.

Zaps energy completely.

I was on something like 130iu Humalog 750dnp daily with 1300g carbs.. made me blow up visually.. just water though and deflated like a balloon afterwards. Strength during that time was shit so idk how you can actually accrue muscle tissue.

I think it's better to use during mini diets with psmf during a bulk

Why would you do that? :D Were you already taking in 1300g carbs for a long period and you added it or did you literally add loads of slin and up carbs straightaway and used the dnp to stop you getting fat? I would guess the later.

DNP could be used when bulking but not 750mg. Although I should add I think DNP when bulking is nonsensical and I would never recommend it. If you are going to use DNP when bulking it would be in mini cuts of 1-2 weeks and during a very long off season. Taking it whilst trying to grow is just pointless. It's like trying to fill a bucket with a hole in for every DNP cap you are using. If people want to grow lean then that is all in the diet/training and they could also add in aids such as HGH, synthetine (inj l-carnitine) or even a low dose of tren to assist the process without making it much harder to grow.
 

btails

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Why would you do that? :D Were you already taking in 1300g carbs for a long period and you added it or did you literally add loads of slin and up carbs straightaway and used the dnp to stop you getting fat? I would guess the later.

DNP could be used when bulking but not 750mg. Although I should add I think DNP when bulking is nonsensical and I would never recommend it. If you are going to use DNP when bulking it would be in mini cuts of 1-2 weeks and during a very long off season. Taking it whilst trying to grow is just pointless. It's like trying to fill a bucket with a hole in for every DNP cap you are using. If people want to grow lean then that is all in the diet/training and they could also add in aids such as HGH, synthetine (inj l-carnitine) or even a low dose of tren to assist the process without making it much harder to grow.

100% agree with everything you said.

The protocol wasn't mine. Was that of a coach believe it or not. Felt like I was slamming the brakes and gas at the same time.

Only time in my life I actually felt unhealthy.
 

warlock

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Geno sells DNP, T3 and Clen. There is a reason I wanted to stock DNP in our other shop. It's much more effective than t3 and clen and I think it's safer but only when used at a sensible dose (250mg for example). Although take a massive dose of any of those drugs and you will end up in hospital. The issue with dnp is someone could really struggle and be in a bad place by taking just 3 or 4 caps per day. So treat it with respect and run 1 cap (no more than 2) per day and the results will be amazing.

The forum's have alsorts of nonsense posted about the likes of dnp and insulin. Although more people are educated due to the supply of information so you don't see bad info as much as you did in the past but it's still funny some of the things I hear. I have had guys who run 200mg tren daily and grams of gear and high orals tell me they won't use dnp because it's poison/dangerous. If something is posted online it's often duplicated and the articles written on DNP in the past were copied and pasted on every forum and that's why people feel the way they do. I have sold DNP to a massive amount of people on here so I know it's super popular but some don't like to post about it because of it's old reputation but the more threads I see on it the more I see people use it and understand it. I still get people wanting 50mg caps because they think they could end up in hospital from taking 250mg per day though.

As posted a slight reduction in thyroid but nothing to be concerned with. Blood glucose will also initially increase on DNP but over time it will decrease and post cycle your insulin sensitivity will be maximized. Thyroid shouldn't be too much of a concern because DNP should be used for shorter periods especially if you are a competitor (imo). Competitors know how to diet and they shouldn't need to lose too much fat so I would recommend using it later in prep when you are already lean but just need to get the last bit of fat off.

Great post. Spot on!

Regarding an initial increase in blood glucose while first using DNP, I never heard anyone experiencing or talking about that. Do you know why this happens and for how long before insulin sensitivity begins to improve?
 

Type-IIx

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DNP causes proton leak preventing protons from being pumped into the mitochondrial matrix during oxidative phosphorylation, and thus dramatically reduces (essentially obviates) ATP synthesis, increasing RMR (dissipating energy as heat; thermogenesis). Anabolic processes (muscle growth) use ATP (energy-consuming; anabolic) to build macromolecules (proteins) in a state of positive energy balance. Since DNP so effectively increases RMR (inducing negative energy balance) & prevents ATP synthesis, attempting to grow on DNP is laughably illogical. Further, ATP is involved in muscular contraction (recocking of the globular head), and so there's even a direct effect on performing repetitions under load.

DNP, by uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation ⇒ ↑↑O₂ consumption (reflects ↑RMR) & ADP:ATP ratio, ↑lactate synthesis (the latter due to a compensatory ↑glycolysis due to low ATP, thereby ↑pyruvate [glycolysis end-product]) & ↓glucose (due to the ↑glycolysis). Practically, DNP is less insulin sensitizing than aspirin.

DNP certainly is a poison. Fatal dose in adults is about 1 to 3 g by mouth; 3 g has also proved fatal in divided doses over a period of 5 days. Its practical risks are compounded by wide variation in pharmacokinetics between individuals (e.g., in 2 groups of inpatients suffering from DNP poisoning, one group [intensive HP] being essentially doomed to die and the other [routine HP] being relatively unlikely to die, the elimination half-life [t1/2] of 2,4-DNP was 88.78 ± 14.66 h in the routine HP group, while the t1/2 was only 54.58 ± 12.92) h in the intensive HP group).

I doubt any effect by DNP, either indirect or direct, on thyroid function. The absence of any authoritative evidentiary support (bolstered by conciliator's analysis) is a strong indication of this.
 

Virtuous

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DNP causes proton leak preventing protons from being pumped into the mitochondrial matrix during oxidative phosphorylation, and thus dramatically reduces (essentially obviates) ATP synthesis, increasing RMR (dissipating energy as heat; thermogenesis). Anabolic processes (muscle growth) use ATP (energy-consuming; anabolic) to build macromolecules (proteins) in a state of positive energy balance. Since DNP so effectively increases RMR (inducing negative energy balance) & prevents ATP synthesis, attempting to grow on DNP is laughably illogical. Further, ATP is involved in muscular contraction (recocking of the globular head), and so there's even a direct effect on performing repetitions under load.

DNP, by uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation ⇒ ↑↑O₂ consumption (reflects ↑RMR) & ADP:ATP ratio, ↑lactate synthesis (the latter due to a compensatory ↑glycolysis due to low ATP, thereby ↑pyruvate [glycolysis end-product]) & ↓glucose (due to the ↑glycolysis). Practically, DNP is less insulin sensitizing than aspirin.

DNP certainly is a poison. Fatal dose in adults is about 1 to 3 g by mouth; 3 g has also proved fatal in divided doses over a period of 5 days. Its practical risks are compounded by wide variation in pharmacokinetics between individuals (e.g., in 2 groups of inpatients suffering from DNP poisoning, one group [intensive HP] being essentially doomed to die and the other [routine HP] being relatively unlikely to die, the elimination half-life [t1/2] of 2,4-DNP was 88.78 ± 14.66 h in the routine HP group, while the t1/2 was only 54.58 ± 12.92) h in the intensive HP group).

I doubt any effect by DNP, either indirect or direct, on thyroid function. The absence of any authoritative evidentiary support (bolstered by conciliator's analysis) is a strong indication of this.
I slide my hand down my pants every time you post this sexy science breakdown stuff.


…go on 😏
 

jaxino

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Had a discussion with a couple competitors today on contest prep protocols , one was a huge fan of DNP at low does for the whole prep saying it was unbeatable for fat loss while not compromising your health as much as Clen/T3 and explained how it's great for insulin sensitivity , and NOT having any effect on the thyroid so there wouldn't be any suppressed thyroid function after the prep. He even said how it was beneficial during a growth phase to speed up the metabolism and allow you to start your diet with a much higher calorie intake. (I've never heard any use it in a growth/bulking phase)

I'd heard the part about the thyroid mentioned years ago and it seemed very debatable.

The other fella carried on about how terribly toxic DNP was being used in rat poison explosiveand all that and how it shut down the thyroid more than moderate to higher dose T3 did.

I've been trying to find some threads about it's effect on thyroid function in my spare time on my phone but haven't been able to nail anything down.

Do any of you guys that are proponents of DNP (or anyone else) have any input on how it has effected your thyroid and if there was any down regulation.

Or does anyone have any links to previous post on the subject.
Discuss LOW DOSE DNP..... it can be 50mg ed or 250mg ed.... it's not the same subject....
 

Gunsmith

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Discuss LOW DOSE DNP..... it can be 50mg ed or 250mg ed.... it's not the same subject....
200mg was what we were talking about as it's the most common.
I wish 100mg caps were more common , I could probably get away with that , 200mg makes me sweat way to much when I'm working and it's nearly impossible to keep up with the water.
 

jaxino

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200mg was what we were talking about as it's the most common.
I wish 100mg caps were more common , I could probably get away with that , 200mg makes me sweat way to much when I'm working and it's nearly impossible to keep up with the water.
100mg DNP tabs i think that Genotech is making those.... I don't touch it since 4y and everytime i was feeling so bad....

Unfortunately i can use dnp only in winter, and usually i am bulking during that time, rarely i need to introduce it. Also once you bulk at 5-6k cals, cutting becomes a breeze.
 

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