Question for Doggcrapp, Dirk, Phil..

[edge250]

I know that Duchain had the Dirty dieting news letter that gave out some hardcore info. Some of the issues went into large doeses. Is this the one you are talking about?

no this was written by doggcrapp, was known as dante at that time. it was was very underground, i think it was advertised in the back of musclemag i believe. it had sources, training advice, etc. i'm pretty sure magnum got it i will have to ask him as i remember him donating to $ when someone had legal problems and his name was listed in a thank you along with others.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

YES

no this was written by doggcrapp, was known as dante at that time. it was was very underground, i think it was advertised in the back of musclemag i believe. it had sources, training advice, etc. i'm pretty sure magnum got it i will have to ask him as i remember him donating to $ when someone had legal problems and his name was listed in a thank you along with others.

I ACTUALLY HAVE 5-6 OF DANTES NEWSLETTERD AT HOME. I WILL CHECK OUT THOSE DOSAGE ARTICLES.

 

[edge250]

i knew someone had them. those newsletter were the awesome back in the day. really good info, diet, training, interviews, etc. like i said i am not trying to stir any shit, just remembering reading these things pretty clearly.

 

[b-boy]

I truly believe that genetics along with advances in nutrition is responisble for the growth seen today and gh, slin, igf is SLIGHTLY responisble also, i believe all the guys back in the day under eat! maybe by yesterdays standards they thought they were eating big, but by today's standards hell no! now genetics will also play a part in how much food you can take in and actually use! things like insulin sensitivity and other genetic factors play a huge role in this!

 

[PHIL HERNON]

PROTEIN SOURCES ,DRUGS, DIET, TRAINING

IF YOU GUYS CAN REMMEBER MLO PROTEIN 25 YEARS AGO THEN YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. ALL ACCOUNT FOR THE MASS MONSTER LOOK. DRUG USE AS IN SMARTER USE OR CYCLES FOR MAXIMUN BENEFIT, DIET AS FAR AS RATIOS AT DIFFERENT TIMES OF THE YEAR, TRAINING AS FAR AS NOT OVER TRAINING AND UNDERSTANDING REP RANGES. THERE WAS NO IONIZED WHEY BACK THEN FOR US, JUST POWDERED NILK.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

i remember getting the hardcoremuscle newsletter back about i'd say 10-12 years ago. if i remember correctly and i could be wrong but i am pretty darn sure dante wrote an article about the mega doses of test being used that he thought was the reason for the mass increase during that time. pretty sure he said it wasnt the gh or insulin but test and lots of it. then when on to say a certain top national heavy was doing several grams of test in the offseason to bring up his size, i think it was 4g cant remember. all this discussion kinda jarred my memory about reading it because it was kinda hard to believe and made an impression on me as i was young and just getting serious about bb. this newletter was pretty much cutting edge at that time, sources, everything. the internet wasnt big then and that was the only hardcore info i had available. doggcrapp do you remember this article??? do you still stand behind it??

I kind of find it funny that you remember that paragraph (and it was just that a paragraph) but then I did a full huge multipage interview with Tom Prince where he listed out what he did for the nationals (before he turned pro) and it was baby dosages (but true because he faxed it over to me within minutes of me asking him)......how did that miss your memory? I guess the shock value is what sticks. Do you know who that competitor was that I was talking about in that small paragraph? He is now dead from an enlarged heart.........which fullybuilt and everyone else will just blow off as "ahhhh bad luck"

I never said there wasnt daredevils out there and that a boatload of drugs wont make someone who is genetically gifted toward it really big. I will stand by the fact that alot of successful pros arent doing the amounts that guys in this forum are.

 

[KillerStack]

Milos said that something magical happens over 4g / week and he trains alot of top competitors, so either they are not genetically gifted or are maximizing their genetics, I don't know..

Yes I remember the 4 gram thing as well but i can't find where he said it. I remember Duchaine saying this as well.

But here's what he told Trevor Smith:

Trevor: SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT INSULIN ALONE IS WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 20-30LB. JUMP IN LEAN BODY MASS IN ALL THE TOP GUYS?

Milos: ABSOLUTELY. I GUARANTEE THAT IF A BODYBUILDER IS STAGNANT AND HAS NOT USED INSULIN YET OR USED IT CORRECTLY, HE CAN PUT 20-30LBS OF MUSCLE ON. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. I AM SO SURE OF IT THAT I WOULD BET MY LIFE ON IT. I AM THAT POSITIVE.

http://www.chadnicholls.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39691&page=7&pp=30

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I dont like these threads anymore...people ask my opinion i tell them and they dont believe it. I came on this board once and told the people here exactly what I knew Dorian was doing (from what his training partner told me and he also told me in detail about his diet)...which later I saw verbatim in a article by Dorian so I think this guy was pretty spot on in everything). I also told people in this forum what I knew what RC was doing right before he made his Olympia runs (and I typed it out in detail) and it came right from his previous trainer that helped him for shows. This was right before he started winning O's and he still was a big beast. Both Dorian and Ronnie's plans were so "average" and on par with the everyday guy that the very same guys on these current threads who read it back then just shrugged it off. I then told people about 2 pros I knew of who were two of the most abusive individuals Ive ever asked questions of and one was Titus (and I heard it right from the man himself) and it was over 4-5 grams of test and 11-13 other drugs (everything but the kitchen sink) and everyone had no problem believing that. "Oh see Chucky? Look what dante said I told you so!"....yea and did you see what I said on the other end of the spectrum with the guys who were actually winning the O's

So screw it--if you want to selectorize and pick out what you want to believe in to reaffirm your own drug abuse or to explain to yourself your own shortcomings as a bodybuilder then go right ahead.....but Im tired of people believing in the "shock stories" and then saying IM full of bullshit when I tell what I know about the opposite of the "shock story". Do you think I have a hidden agenda here? I dont give a flying crap about this except I want to inform young guys who might screw themselves up listening to the "well he is gigantic so HE JUST HAS TO BE DOING THIS!" bullshit from people who have some insecurities about themselves.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

I dont like these threads anymore...people ask my opinion i tell them and they dont believe it. I came on this board once and told the people here exactly what I knew Dorian was doing (from what his training partner told me and he also told me in detail about his diet)...which later I saw verbatim in a article by Dorian so I think this guy was pretty spot on in everything). I also told people in this forum what I knew what RC was doing right before he made his Olympia runs (and I typed it out in detail) and it came right from his previous trainer that helped him for shows. This was right before he started winning O's and he still was a big beast. Both Dorian and Ronnie's plans were so "average" and on par with the everyday guy that the very same guys on these current threads who read it back then just shrugged it off. I then told people about 2 pros I knew of who were two of the most abusive individuals Ive ever asked questions of and one was Titus (and I heard it right from the man himself) and it was over 4-5 grams of test and 11-13 other drugs (everything but the kitchen sink) and everyone had no problem believing that. "Oh see Chucky? Look what dante said I told you so!"....yea and did you see what I said on the other end of the spectrum with the guys who were actually winning the O's

So screw it--if you want to selectorize and pick out what you want to believe in to reaffirm your own drug abuse or to explain to yourself your own shortcomings as a bodybuilder then go right ahead.....but Im tired of people believing in the "shock stories" and then saying IM full of bullshit when I tell what I know about the opposite of the "shock story". Do you think I have a hidden agenda here? I dont give a flying crap about this except I want to inform young guys who might screw themselves up listening to the "well he is gigantic so HE JUST HAS TO BE DOING THIS!" bullshit from people who have some insecurities about themselves.

I feel bad that these guys do not appreciate you on here.I totally understand why you do not post much on here anymore and I am starting to feel the same way.

 

[Kaiser]

I feel bad that these guys do not appreciate you on here.I totally understand why you do not post much on here anymore and I am starting to feel the same way.

I appreciate both of you on here especially my jackass buddy Philbert. Even though I do not compete, I look forward and respect both of you as icons of knowledge, which in this sport has no tolerence for mistake as mistakes can wind you up in the hospital. Thanks fellas.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Thanks Kaiser

I appreciate both of you on here especially my jackass buddy Philbert. Even though I do not compete, I look forward and respect both of you as icons of knowledge, which in this sport has no tolerence for mistake as mistakes can wind you up in the hospital. Thanks fellas.

Well, there is a ton of more info we both could share but it aint gonna happen on this board because we get called into question every time we delve into the drug subculture aspect. This is personally why I charge for help,it weeds out the posers like fullybuilt and bellilose. These guys add nothing to this site but want everything for free. If you are going to call me a liar, at least pay me first, haahaahhahahahah.

 

[edge250]

another shitstorm , just remember what i read thats all. and yes i remembered because of the shock value.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Edge I dont want you to think Im personally mad at you, I just find this subject frustrating and its a small picture of a big picture that is a problem in the sport today.

 

[littlemack]

Yes big shout out to both of you guys! You guys are some of the more well respected guys in the industry. Having both of you contribute to the board is why I stick around. Many of these people don't have actual experience working with top level bodybuilders like the two of you do. Seriously. Think about that for a minute. Its guys like yourselves who are pioneering the sport!

 

[edge250]

Edge I dont want you to think Im personally mad at you, I just find this subject frustrating and its a small picture of a big picture that is a problem in the sport today.

thank you, it was meant as no disrespect whatsoever, you have accomplished a ton, and i loved the newletter back in the day. if i didnt believe what you guys recommend i wouldnt be working with phil.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

also again same newsletter. ya posted the cycle of an arnold classic either winner or top competitor. cant remember the exact numbers i know the eq was at 1200mg, alotta anadrol, etc. damn i wish i had kept all those anyways the cycle was several grams.

If I remember right this person had open heart surgery at 38 years old.....pretty scary when Im looking thru this stuff and with no bullshit the NPC guy is dead and the pro competitor (if i remember the article right and have the right guy) almost died at 38

 

[Kaiser]

Well, there is a ton of more info we both could share but it aint gonna happen on this board because we get called into question every time we delve into the drug subculture aspect. This is personally why I charge for help,it weeds out the posers like fullybuilt and bellilose. These guys add nothing to this site but want everything for free. If you are going to call me a liar, at least pay me first, haahaahhahahahah.

It also amazes me how people use personal problems that someone on here has against them. Take for instance how you came clean and expressed how you were hurt because of your wife's infantile insecure activities. Every time I hear that shit on here, my blood boils and makes me want to take care of the issue my way. For instance, you say, "you need to cut down on the gear and take a second look at your genetics", and they say "you are just bitter and washed up, and you cant even keep a marriage." Which of course, changes the subject to something that has nothing to do with ProM. If this was ProRelationships.com it may hold water, but here, it's just like saying I don't like the color of your car so you are incorrect. That makes me want to buy a plane ticket for me and my guys and I know you know what I mean by that. Anyway, don't stop posting. Keep your head up, and chug along the road of life brother. I got your back.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Of course, haahhahha

It also amazes me how people use personal problems that someone on here has against them. Take for instance how you came clean and expressed how you were hurt because of your wife's infantile insecure activities. Every time I hear that shit on here, my blood boils and makes me want to take care of the issue my way. For instance, you say, "you need to cut down on the gear and take a second look at your genetics", and they say "you are just bitter and washed up, and you cant even keep a marriage." Which of course, changes the subject to something that has nothing to do with ProM. If this was ProRelationships.com it may hold water, but here, it's just like saying I don't like the color of your car so you are incorrect. That makes me want to buy a plane ticket for me and my guys and I know you know what I mean by that. Anyway, don't stop posting. Keep your head up, and chug along the road of life brother. I got your back.

That might just be the only point that is exposed to attack though, thats why they go for the "wife left you", or "you are washed up" or the famous "no one these days remembers you", hahahahahahahah. They base success on how many people know them, or how many shows they are in. There are some very successful people in this world who have never even entered a BBing contest. I have 2 girls that I am very proud of and a great family. I have met a very nice girl and am going slowly, not getting married right away, hahahahhahhahahahah. I promise H, ok!!! These guys like fullybuilt will continue to lie to themselves to cover up their shortcomings, I understand this. What bothers me is that if the fullybuilts of this world start some shit on here and we respond, we are all threatened with being banned. Why not just ban him? Lets end the problem, we know what the problem is, so terminate the problem.

 

[MAINEVENT]

I dont like these threads anymore...people ask my opinion i tell them and they dont believe it. I came on this board once and told the people here exactly what I knew Dorian was doing (from what his training partner told me and he also told me in detail about his diet)...which later I saw verbatim in a article by Dorian so I think this guy was pretty spot on in everything). I also told people in this forum what I knew what RC was doing right before he made his Olympia runs (and I typed it out in detail) and it came right from his previous trainer that helped him for shows. This was right before he started winning O's and he still was a big beast. Both Dorian and Ronnie's plans were so "average" and on par with the everyday guy that the very same guys on these current threads who read it back then just shrugged it off. I then told people about 2 pros I knew of who were two of the most abusive individuals Ive ever asked questions of and one was Titus (and I heard it right from the man himself) and it was over 4-5 grams of test and 11-13 other drugs (everything but the kitchen sink) and everyone had no problem believing that. "Oh see Chucky? Look what dante said I told you so!"....yea and did you see what I said on the other end of the spectrum with the guys who were actually winning the O's

So screw it--if you want to selectorize and pick out what you want to believe in to reaffirm your own drug abuse or to explain to yourself your own shortcomings as a bodybuilder then go right ahead.....but Im tired of people believing in the "shock stories" and then saying IM full of bullshit when I tell what I know about the opposite of the "shock story". Do you think I have a hidden agenda here? I dont give a flying crap about this except I want to inform young guys who might screw themselves up listening to the "well he is gigantic so HE JUST HAS TO BE DOING THIS!" bullshit from people who have some insecurities about themselves.

I think I can speak for 99.9% of the guys here and say that we HIGHLY value your information that you provide us. Its always the negative and/or shock value that people remember the most. I realized along time ago that I would never take large doses but I'll be honest and tell you that I still find it interestiing what some people will do.

To make a long story short, dont let the few ruin it here for the many. \

Edge, why you gotta start shit man .......just kidding!

 

[littlemack]

It also amazes me how people use personal problems that someone on here has against them. Take for instance how you came clean and expressed how you were hurt because of your wife's infantile insecure activities. Every time I hear that shit on here, my blood boils and makes me want to take care of the issue my way. For instance, you say, "you need to cut down on the gear and take a second look at your genetics", and they say "you are just bitter and washed up, and you cant even keep a marriage." Which of course, changes the subject to something that has nothing to do with ProM. If this was ProRelationships.com it may hold water, but here, it's just like saying I don't like the color of your car so you are incorrect. That makes me want to buy a plane ticket for me and my guys and I know you know what I mean by that. Anyway, don't stop posting. Keep your head up, and chug along the road of life brother. I got your back.

I agree. The PERSONAL flaming and attacks have gotta stop. Like these people even know Phil? Its just stupid, and to make so many assumptions about his personal life that you know nothing about. Then pulling some old article out about something Dante said YEARS ago! Ha. Dude, what do you think Dante was born with that knowledge or something? No. Its through continued learning and learning that he has aquired his knowledge. Just b/c he said something years ago doesn't mean shit. Especially when it wasn't the entire O' lineup that he'd interviewed or anything. And then. To come on THIS board and CALL out these people?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Like they need to defend shit? Man, it just pisses me off.
This flaming bullshit has gotta stop. Hell. Even for poor Vander. Who I've kidded around with and joked, but I didn't come out and start personally trying to beat the guy down or anything. Look how many posts I have! Less than a 100. Less than 200. Some of these guys have well over 1000 posts. Do you know how much time it must take to post 1000+ times? Its called respect people!
I gotta go check my bp. This shit just pisses me off.