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- Joined
- Nov 16, 2004
- Messages
- 493
Fullybuilt, don't drop the ball man. I'm just trying to figure out what the consensus with the development of the 300 pound stage ready bodybuilder is. I think we are getting somewhere. Validate what you are saying, but the way you are coming across is invalidating it.
There's no reason to keep asking Phil the same questions. THERE ARE GENETICALLY GIFTED (READ GENETICALLY RESPONSIVE) guys and girls out there who do grow tremendously on very small, what we would perceive to be relatively healthy dosages.
Phil has no reason to be deceptive that back in 1993 he took 4g or 1g of gear. If he did, he did, what would it earn him now to be deceptive about it? Absolutely nothing. Nothing to lose, nothing to gain. I wholeheartedly believe what Phil, Vander and a couple other national level guys (bboy) have stated.
Phil has been very open about the negative aspects of the industry in all aspects and believe me, alot of prospective guys couldn't deal with his openness about it, but he is trying to prepare them for the possible disappointment and exploitation that may lay ahead.
If Phil had problems with high dosages himself he would put it out there (it's not going to put any egg on his face). He is against high dosages whole heartedly and asking people to learn from his experience, but he can't force you. He thrived on the dosages he stated, but he still knows the other side of the coin, probably from alot of firsthand friendships and he's cautioning against it.
Fullybuilt, I say those things about Phil, even though we've exchanged some barbs back and forth, but I feel he can be taken at face value and I know when he's slinging it and when he's not. You cannot be a better judge of character than I am, doesn't matter if I've met you in person or not. Hell he even labeled me a smurf and can't stand the fact that I think a certain model (Quads) looks phenomenal and can go as far as he wants in bodybuilding if he so chose.
I personally have known a guy who looked phenomenal on no more than 500mg of Deca (nothing else) and I know a plethera of guys that look phenomenal, average and bloated on 3g. Shows ya the genetically responsive difference.
doggcrapp has shown both sides of the coin, which I appreciate. He stated some numbers that he has been privy to that was up in the stratosphere and has already stated the low end. The way he was coming across on the other thread, was if you can't compete on a high professional level with 1g per week, hang up your lifting straps.
I believe if that was made an IFBB rule, the list of competitors would be very small, boiling it down to those genetic elite that are extremely, extremely, extremely few and far between.
Every one knows how I prefer the classic (underdeveloped) physique, so I would welcome competitive bodybuilding with a max on gear usage of no more than 500mg per week. I think the competitors would look phenomenal and it would weed out the guys who are jeopardizing their health to keep up.
Not gonna happen in the real, competitive world, ever.
brooklyn, you broke down everything good. I still have to disagree with you on training and nutrition adding those 30 pounds. Mentzer never overtrained and even though you may not agree with his nutritional theories, no one put more actual science behind it than him. Phil disliked him, so maybe he'll set me straight on how stupid he really was.
It's hard to find a more respected guru than Milos, yet he's a 4g per week guy (when the magic begins) and as the above link showed, believes that insulin is the x-factor.
I'm sure there are some guys who have done everything but insulin, igf and gh and built amazing physiques and then have added those compounds. I wonder what their stage weight increased to, if at all.
I do know one thing and Phil, dirk, doggcrapp, Vander, BigA, anyone on the board can agree with. There are more threads about gh, insulin and igf out there than ever. There are TONS of guys, competitive and even more so not competitive who are experementing with this or have gone into it full blown.
Why so? If it's not the X factor, why even mess with it? gh I personally don't believe should be lumped in there, especially for guys 35-40+, it has it's merits (imo). But young guys doing mega iu dosages, may not be very healthy long term, even with gh, let alone igf and insulin.
All signs point to that being more of a red flag for stage weight than food or training. Different training and nutrient intake my have fine tuned someone like Paris or Mentzer, but wouldn't slap that much mass on them (20-30 pounds of stageweight).
There's no reason to keep asking Phil the same questions. THERE ARE GENETICALLY GIFTED (READ GENETICALLY RESPONSIVE) guys and girls out there who do grow tremendously on very small, what we would perceive to be relatively healthy dosages.
Phil has no reason to be deceptive that back in 1993 he took 4g or 1g of gear. If he did, he did, what would it earn him now to be deceptive about it? Absolutely nothing. Nothing to lose, nothing to gain. I wholeheartedly believe what Phil, Vander and a couple other national level guys (bboy) have stated.
Phil has been very open about the negative aspects of the industry in all aspects and believe me, alot of prospective guys couldn't deal with his openness about it, but he is trying to prepare them for the possible disappointment and exploitation that may lay ahead.
If Phil had problems with high dosages himself he would put it out there (it's not going to put any egg on his face). He is against high dosages whole heartedly and asking people to learn from his experience, but he can't force you. He thrived on the dosages he stated, but he still knows the other side of the coin, probably from alot of firsthand friendships and he's cautioning against it.
Fullybuilt, I say those things about Phil, even though we've exchanged some barbs back and forth, but I feel he can be taken at face value and I know when he's slinging it and when he's not. You cannot be a better judge of character than I am, doesn't matter if I've met you in person or not. Hell he even labeled me a smurf and can't stand the fact that I think a certain model (Quads) looks phenomenal and can go as far as he wants in bodybuilding if he so chose.
I personally have known a guy who looked phenomenal on no more than 500mg of Deca (nothing else) and I know a plethera of guys that look phenomenal, average and bloated on 3g. Shows ya the genetically responsive difference.
doggcrapp has shown both sides of the coin, which I appreciate. He stated some numbers that he has been privy to that was up in the stratosphere and has already stated the low end. The way he was coming across on the other thread, was if you can't compete on a high professional level with 1g per week, hang up your lifting straps.
I believe if that was made an IFBB rule, the list of competitors would be very small, boiling it down to those genetic elite that are extremely, extremely, extremely few and far between.
Every one knows how I prefer the classic (underdeveloped) physique, so I would welcome competitive bodybuilding with a max on gear usage of no more than 500mg per week. I think the competitors would look phenomenal and it would weed out the guys who are jeopardizing their health to keep up.
Not gonna happen in the real, competitive world, ever.
brooklyn, you broke down everything good. I still have to disagree with you on training and nutrition adding those 30 pounds. Mentzer never overtrained and even though you may not agree with his nutritional theories, no one put more actual science behind it than him. Phil disliked him, so maybe he'll set me straight on how stupid he really was.
It's hard to find a more respected guru than Milos, yet he's a 4g per week guy (when the magic begins) and as the above link showed, believes that insulin is the x-factor.
I'm sure there are some guys who have done everything but insulin, igf and gh and built amazing physiques and then have added those compounds. I wonder what their stage weight increased to, if at all.
I do know one thing and Phil, dirk, doggcrapp, Vander, BigA, anyone on the board can agree with. There are more threads about gh, insulin and igf out there than ever. There are TONS of guys, competitive and even more so not competitive who are experementing with this or have gone into it full blown.
Why so? If it's not the X factor, why even mess with it? gh I personally don't believe should be lumped in there, especially for guys 35-40+, it has it's merits (imo). But young guys doing mega iu dosages, may not be very healthy long term, even with gh, let alone igf and insulin.
All signs point to that being more of a red flag for stage weight than food or training. Different training and nutrient intake my have fine tuned someone like Paris or Mentzer, but wouldn't slap that much mass on them (20-30 pounds of stageweight).
