question for shelby/kal regarding "the healthy bodybuilder"

[DK0223]

In the book you mention that fast digesting protein usually gets converted to energy, rather than being used to build muscle. does that mean you are recommending casein over whey protein? its not clarified in the book ,and im curious. again, great book:headbang:

 

[DK0223]

bump

 

[FutureFreak]

Consumed by itself this is a reality.

-FF

 

[DK0223]

yea it does go on to say how carbs are protein sparing etc. just wasnt sure if casein would be the better choice IF consumed by itself with no fats/carbs?

 

[jimmyjones]

yea it does go on to say how carbs are protein sparing etc. just wasnt sure if casein would be the better choice IF consumed by itself with no fats/carbs?

A scoop of whey isolate combined with a simple tablespoon or 2 of peanut butter completely changes the formula.

 

[AshopRep]

A scoop of whey isolate combined with a simple tablespoon or 2 of peanut butter completely changes the formula.

Everythings better with peanut butter!

 

[DK0223]

A scoop of whey isolate combined with a simple tablespoon or 2 of peanut butter completely changes the formula.

this is true

 

[275bills]

Everythings better with peanut butter!

So damn true

 

[RichDC2]

Everythings better with peanut butter!

When I was Not dieting I never understood the attraction, now dieting I lick the damm sides of the bottle on the way down and the cap!!

 

[Kaladryn]

In the book you mention that fast digesting protein usually gets converted to energy, rather than being used to build muscle. does that mean you are recommending casein over whey protein? its not clarified in the book ,and im curious. again, great book:headbang:

The exact quote (italics included) is:

In most cases, faster digesting protein is more likely to be metabolized into energy than slower digesting protein.

This definitely doesn't mean it WILL be, it means that it is more likely. Your body has no substantial storage mechanism for amino acids, so protein that is digested too fast and is not needed is very likely to be metabolized.

I like protein powder at the right times, but one must be careful when using too much fast digesting protein too frequently.

 

[moparfreak360]

What Kal is saying is, drink team skip
OK I'll let him speak for himself, but its def a great option that covers your bases

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kaladryn]

What Kal is saying is, drink team skip
OK I'll let him speak for himself, but its def a great option that covers your bases

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Team skip is a great mix. BUT there are studies showing amino acid concentration immediately after exercise is directly died to anabolism, so there may be good reason to have fast digesting protein at certain points.

I use TN's cold filtered whey, but I only use 30-40g at a time, max. When I diet I usually drop all protein powders.

 

[Incognito1]

It's a very interesting topic.
So Kal what are your thoughts on Amino Acid blended powders?
If whey can be too fast in breaking down, aminos would be even worse/quicker wouldnt they?

 

[Kaladryn]

It's a very interesting topic.
So Kal what are your thoughts on Amino Acid blended powders?
If whey can be too fast in breaking down, aminos would be even worse/quicker wouldnt they?

Don't get me wrong, you want fast digesting protein in some situations. You must be careful though, too much fast digesting protein can lead to fat gain. Using fast digesting protein in small amounts or at the right times can be key.

As with all things, there is rarely an "all or nothing" approach, it's about a delicate balance. I use meals that are partially protein powder at least once or twice per day, and I eat a meal that has all protein from powder once per day, and I use small amounts of amino acids intraworkout.

 

[sazo75]

Don't get me wrong, you want fast digesting protein in some situations. You must be careful though, too much fast digesting protein can lead to fat gain. Using fast digesting protein in small amounts or at the right times can be key.

As with all things, there is rarely an "all or nothing" approach, it's about a delicate balance. I use meals that are partially protein powder at least once or twice per day, and I eat a meal that has all protein from powder once per day, and I use small amounts of amino acids intraworkout.

Can you expand on why fast digesting protein can lead to fat gains ? It sounds like a very interesting topic , I have never heard of this but I love learning new things.

 

[Kaladryn]

Can you expand on why fast digesting protein can lead to fat gains ? It sounds like a very interesting topic , I have never heard of this but I love learning new things.

Really ANYTHING that digests too fast is more likely to be stored as fat than something that digests slowly. We often think of this only in terms of insulin and carbohydrates, but it applies to protein also. There is limited caloric storage in the body, except when it comes to fat storage, which is unlimited.

If you consume 90g of protein in red meat, it isn't going to digest very quickly, probably over 2+ hours (likely great individual variance). So it is more likely to be either a) used for protein synthesis, or b) metabolized into energy and burned or stored as glycogen. When you eat 90g of protein from whey, it is going to digest very quickly. Some will be used for protein synthesis, but excess must be turned into carbohydrate because there is no storage system in the body for protein. At this point it works like any other carb, excess that is not stored in liver or muscle glycogen is converted into fat.

Don't over complicate this concept, this is basic nutrition.

As I've noticed with some other threads, a lot of people have some very strong opinions about protein and fat storage. These opinions are often not based in science. They draw these conclusions because they don't look at the big picture - they can't see the forest through the trees.

Here is an theoretical example. Say over 3 hours you burn 300 calories. Let's also assume glycogen storage is full. If you eat a 300 calorie meal that digests evenly over 3 hours, you will not store any of it as fat. If you eat a 300 calorie meal that digest over 1 hour, you will store 200 calories of it as fat.

These concepts are not only theoretical, but also practical, and you can see them clearly in results when dieting.

 

[Adonis89]

Really ANYTHING that digests too fast is more likely to be stored as fat than something that digests slowly. We often think of this only in terms of insulin and carbohydrates, but it applies to protein also. There is limited caloric storage in the body, except when it comes to fat storage, which is unlimited.

If you consume 90g of protein in red meat, it isn't going to digest very quickly, probably over 2+ hours (likely great individual variance). So it is more likely to be either a) used for protein synthesis, or b) metabolized into energy and burned or stored as glycogen. When you eat 90g of protein from whey, it is going to digest very quickly. Some will be used for protein synthesis, but excess must be turned into carbohydrate because there is no storage system in the body for protein. At this point it works like any other carb, excess that is not stored in liver or muscle glycogen is converted into fat.

Don't over complicate this concept, this is basic nutrition.

As I've noticed with some other threads, a lot of people have some very strong opinions about protein and fat storage. These opinions are often not based in science. They draw these conclusions because they don't look at the big picture - they can't see the forest through the trees.

Here is an theoretical example. Say over 3 hours you burn 300 calories. Let's also assume glycogen storage is full. If you eat a 300 calorie meal that digests evenly over 3 hours, you will not store any of it as fat. If you eat a 300 calorie meal that digest over 1 hour, you will store 200 calories of it as fat.

These concepts are not only theoretical, but also practical, and you can see them clearly in results when dieting.

IMO there's also something to be said about over-consuming fast digesting protein like whey - extra work for the kidneys.

There are waste products resultant from the breakdown of protein, which the kidneys try to dispose of efficiently.

I tried this twice:

'fasted' blood work, however consuming whey about an hour before the draw. elevated BUN and glucose every time.

Not a fan of whey personally. I think fast proteins could be good post workout or during if people get results from that. Moderate amounts of course.

 

[Incognito1]

Don't get me wrong, you want fast digesting protein in some situations. You must be careful though, too much fast digesting protein can lead to fat gain. Using fast digesting protein in small amounts or at the right times can be key.

As with all things, there is rarely an "all or nothing" approach, it's about a delicate balance. I use meals that are partially protein powder at least once or twice per day, and I eat a meal that has all protein from powder once per day, and I use small amounts of amino acids intraworkout.

Thanks for the reply...
I think I'm going to have to get this nutritional book and do some more studying is it on Shelby's site?

 

[Kaladryn]

IMO there's also something to be said about over-consuming fast digesting protein like whey - extra work for the kidneys.

There are waste products resultant from the breakdown of protein, which the kidneys try to dispose of efficiently.

I tried this twice:

'fasted' blood work, however consuming whey about an hour before the draw. elevated BUN and glucose every time.

Not a fan of whey personally. I think fast proteins could be good post workout or during if people get results from that. Moderate amounts of course.

I absolutely agree. I had a biochem course that delved deep into kidney function, you can read all the studies you want about how high protein consumption is OK for people with healthy kidneys, but there is no doubt in my mind that dealing with nitrogenous waste is severely taxing to the kidneys. Consider also the addition stress they may be under from other sources in bodybuilders.

I'm a big fan of adjust total protein intake based on BUN levels also.

Thanks for the reply...
I think I'm going to have to get this nutritional book and do some more studying is it on Shelby's site?

Yes it is, Shelby and I put together a lot of good info in this book, but the nutrition section is rather small. Nutrition is a subject that is way too broad for the scope of this book. Shelby does have other books that delve deeper into nutrition though, I have read them and learned from them.

 

[Incognito1]

Never mind. I just found it