Rear delts are more important than lats for non-competitors

[Tomgrass]

I kind of think one doesn't even need to train rear delts if doing plenty of back work. You don't even need to feel it to work it, so to speak. If the muscle is loaded increasingly it will grow regardless if you "concentrate" on "back" only. How common is it to have great lats but no rear delts? If someone is like this adding specific rear delt movements will most likely not do much. Now I've done shitload of rear delts anyway...


Now I saw some discussion on IG, which I can't ffind now, where some expert claimed rear delts can be seen from the front in good bodybuilders. I didn't quite get it..

Then there was a kind of a sematic quibble. Guy said rear delts are the real medial delts. "Medial to the body." Lol.

I've said it before, the most important thing for rear delts or the whole delts is androgens, not training. Same as with traps, these are simply not seen much in naturals. You can especially see the androgenic rear delts in otherwise small fitness girls, there is this "unnatural" lump or knot there Lol. This is a pretty good "natural or not" sign. It's interesting how androgens cause this, what looks like, clavicle widening. It's not but it's another reliable androgen use sign, if someones "shoulders" suddenly widen.

Never seen rear delts at Mr.O in front poses….

 

[fredmac82]

I kind of think one doesn't even need to train rear delts if doing plenty of back work. You don't even need to feel it to work it, so to speak. If the muscle is loaded increasingly it will grow regardless if you "concentrate" on "back" only. How common is it to have great lats but no rear delts? If someone is like this adding specific rear delt movements will most likely not do much. Now I've done shitload of rear delts anyway...


Now I saw some discussion on IG, which I can't ffind now, where some expert claimed rear delts can be seen from the front in good bodybuilders. I didn't quite get it..

Then there was a kind of a sematic quibble. Guy said rear delts are the real medial delts. "Medial to the body." Lol.

I've said it before, the most important thing for rear delts or the whole delts is androgens, not training. Same as with traps, these are simply not seen much in naturals. You can especially see the androgenic rear delts in otherwise small fitness girls, there is this "unnatural" lump or knot there Lol. This is a pretty good "natural or not" sign. It's interesting how androgens cause this, what looks like, clavicle widening. It's not but it's another reliable androgen use sign, if someones "shoulders" suddenly widen.

This is my latest idea, tell me what you think

Rear delts contribute more to "t shirt" muscles, the X frame, shoulder width from the rear, true bodybuilder 3-d look from the side, etc, than lats

I share the viewpoint of KillerStack. Engaging in both intense compound and isolation exercises for the back not only promotes overall back development but also contributes to the growth of the rear deltoids. Personally, I prioritize focusing on the development of the lat muscles, given their size, knowing that the rear delts will naturally benefit and grow as a complementary outcome.

 

[aHarness]

Sure, one might use secondary muscles to move a weight but how do you remove rear delt activation altogether from a rear delt machine? I don't think you can. How do you use a machine and remove the prime muscle it's supposed to train? Some people argue similar with even leg extensions, but how do you remove the quads from activating on a leg extension? Lol.

Sure they’ll grow overtime I’m sure if you’re consistent enough. But it’s not going to be nearly as efficient or productive towards growth as actually properly executing a movement.

I also would personally compare rear delt flies to leg extensions. Extensions are working the whole quad and you’re placed in a position where you’re essentially locked in to do that. Sure can you do really shit reps on the extension that aren’t maximizing the weight you’re using? Yes, but you’re essentially forced to use your quad unless you’re doing some REALLY REALLY crazy ass form lol where as with rear delt flies your goal is to isolate as much as possible one specific muscle on your back, of which there are tons that can come in to play and take over if you’re execution isn’t proper.

We may disagree on this approach and that’s okay, I am just generally a believer in training of maximizing the weight being used through feeling the muscle, squeezing, and keeping solid execution directed at the specific target muscle because that’s what’s allowed ME personally the best progress. It may be different for others

However, I do agree whole heartedly you’ll see growth for sure from heavy compounds alone like t bar rows, bb rows etc. for sure. Undeniably. I just like to add in the isolation too because honestly why the hell not? They are not taxing in the slightest for me, and will provide some more quality stimulation on top of the compounds.

 

[EricJ123]

Rear delts give that cool 3D delt look and they look badass in a tank but I disagree with it being more important than lats in developing a v-taper or X look.

 

[Biggerp73]

I've said it before, the most important thing for rear delts or the whole delts is androgens, not training. Same as with traps, these are simply not seen much in naturals. You can especially see the androgenic rear delts in otherwise small fitness girls, there is this "unnatural" lump or knot there Lol. This is a pretty good "natural or not" sign. It's interesting how androgens cause this, what looks like, clavicle widening. It's not but it's another reliable androgen use sign, if someones "shoulders" suddenly widen.

I think the issue is although steroids cause muscles like the chest and arms to grow just as much as they cause muscles like the delts and traps to grow, you don't necessarily notice their growth as much, especially because (1) a guy can have a big chest but it be fat titties, (2) no one ever gets fat on their shoulders and and traps that looks like it could be muscle, (3) the traps and shoulders stand out more

 

[KillerStack]

Man I was Training in Costa Rica and there was this group of guys that had injected vitamin oil in to their rear delts.and rear delts only. I chatted them up and asked how you guys all have crazy rear delts? They said they used vitamin oil from the veterinarian. I was like shit I am gonna have to try that, which of course was a lie because they looked so fucking rediculous I just didn't want to be rude. Anywayelse i think rear delts.would look better on a gym physique.

"ADE oil" is a real thing. If nothing else these guy will die from vitamin poisoning. Seriously.

 

[KillerStack]

I think the issue is although steroids cause muscles like the chest and arms to grow just as much as they cause muscles like the delts and traps to grow, you don't necessarily notice their growth as much, especially because (1) a guy can have a big chest but it be fat titties, (2) no one ever gets fat on their shoulders and and traps that looks like it could be muscle, (3) the traps and shoulders stand out more

Maybe but this particular effect was noticed back in the DDR days already. Like why do the female East Germans have such wide upper backs and shoulders? The clothing of course revealed the whole physique but the delt/trap/upper back-complex stood out. It really is a distinct type of growth that just does not occur in naturals.

 

[xpoc]

For non-competitors I tend to agree that rear delts will be more impressive than lats, as long as you don't already have super narrow torso. Put it this way, outstanding rear delts and average lats will be more impressive to the general public than average rear delts and outstanding lats. From a personal POV I used to never do direct rear delt work as I assumed they would get enough stimulation from bent rows, seated cable rows, machine rows, upright rows and other back work. When I started training them directly, they made great improvements and people started complimenting me on my delts. That never happened before I started to isolate rear delts.

 

[KillerStack]

You nailed it. Go straight to the reverse pec dec on my shoulder and Tri’s day. Heavy weight and control the movement/contraction.

My second favorite if I want a deeper angle is reverse cable cross-overs with the pulleys up high. These will burn the hell out of your rear delts done right.

I do those on the pulleys, one arm at a time. But the one that hits my delts the most, judging by soreness, is the bent over lateral raises. Feels like the least "specific" of the rear delt moves, like it hits your upper back mostly, but the soreness is notable.

 

[KillerStack]

For non-competitors I tend to agree that rear delts will be more impressive than lats, as long as you don't already have super narrow torso. Put it this way, outstanding rear delts and average lats will be more impressive to the general public than average rear delts and outstanding lats. From a personal POV I used to never do direct rear delt work as I assumed they would get enough stimulation from bent rows, seated cable rows, machine rows, upright rows and other back work. When I started training them directly, they made great improvements and people started complimenting me on my delts. That never happened before I started to isolate rear delts.

Competitors, almost without fail, have shot their delts to shit so it doesn't matter how they train. It's like one third of the delt is scar tissue.

 

[RandomMachine]

Took me too long to realize I had to be leaning my upper chest into the pad and angling my lower body away from the pad to hit my rear delts on the reverse pec dec or a machine chest supported rear delt row.

Prior to that I was mostly just doing upper back work via scapular retraction.

 

[TrippplePPP]

I think something that is ofter overlooked is shoulder bio mechanical health. Doing “rear delt” work is also scapula stabilizing work. The stronger and more stable your scapula is held in your back the greater mechanical advantage your rotator cuff has and this sets you up for less shoulder and neck injury. Just make sure you are retracting and suppressing the scapula with your movement and not letting them ride up.

 

[Fleezy]

I feel like a similar argument can be made with pecs vs delts

Have big pecs and weak delts looks weird

Have big delts with weak chest doesn’t look as weird

But - as the Latinos say, ‘por que no los dos?’

 

[qbkilla]

Took me too long to realize I had to be leaning my upper chest into the pad and angling my lower body away from the pad to hit my rear delts on the reverse pec dec or a machine chest supported rear delt row.

Prior to that I was mostly just doing upper back work via scapular retraction.

For me the secret to feel it, extend arm all the way forward, keep the arm completely straight throughout the movement no bent elbow, perform the motion as wide as possible, and use high reps very low weight. Today was one set of 25 to failure then I bumped the weight up a bit and did 2 dropsets ... reverse pec deck that is.

What kind of weight are people using on reverse bent over flyes for the rear delts? I like them bent over with my head on the wall for stability. Something about using the incline bench I don't feel it as good. Also just bending over I don't like, I don't want to worry about keeping my body stable so the wall eliminates that so I can just focus on hitting them

 

[qbkilla]

I feel like a similar argument can be made with pecs vs delts

Have big pecs and weak delts looks weird

Have big delts with weak chest doesn’t look as weird

But - as the Latinos say, ‘por que no los dos?’

100 percent agree. If chest back outshine arms delts, not a good look. Especially if distended guts too. The spider physique lol

 

[KillerStack]

For me the secret to feel it, extend arm all the way forward, keep the arm completely straight throughout the movement no bent elbow, perform the motion as wide as possible, and use high reps very low weight. Today was one set of 25 to failure then I bumped the weight up a bit and did 2 dropsets ... reverse pec deck that is.

What kind of weight are people using on reverse bent over flyes for the rear delts? I like them bent over with my head on the wall for stability. Something about using the incline bench I don't feel it as good. Also just bending over I don't like, I don't want to worry about keeping my body stable so the wall eliminates that so I can just focus on hitting them

I do them seated. My belly acts as a stabilizer against my thighs lol. Like Dorian in his video.

I used like 20 kilo dumbells (about 44lbs) for 20 reps, but it all depends on how strict you want to be, how little momentum you want to use.

If you do a lot of say chest supported rows it's probably unlikely direct rear delt movements do much extra. But it's something to do to make sure everything is hit properly. Or as a sort of warmup to warm the delts or whatever.

 

[marssel]

This is my latest idea, tell me what you think

Rear delts contribute more to "t shirt" muscles, the X frame, shoulder width from the rear, true bodybuilder 3-d look from the side, etc, than lats

You are correct they are ass chasing muscles but make no mistake rear delts are major in all side and back poses so they aren’t back but they fucking matter.

 

[Alzadosghost]

This is my latest idea, tell me what you think

Rear delts contribute more to "t shirt" muscles, the X frame, shoulder width from the rear, true bodybuilder 3-d look from the side, etc, than lats

Kind if an odd statement to make. Lol how did you come to this conclusion??

 

[Biggerp73]

I guess what I am driving at is

Your actual width

Lats won't ever stick out beyond your collar bone/clavicle width

The only thing that's actually gonna make you WIDER across the back at the top is more rear delt width

 

[bg65]

I feel like a similar argument can be made with pecs vs delts

Have big pecs and weak delts looks weird

Have big delts with weak chest doesn’t look as weird

But - as the Latinos say, ‘por que no los dos?’

100 percent agree. If chest back outshine arms delts, not a good look. Especially if distended guts too. The spider physique lol

I was watching a newer Tarzan movie w my kids and Somebody Skarsgard is Tarzan. He totally has that body, pretty well developed torso (by hollywood standards), lean, but like spindly extremities. Looks weird