Rest/Pause DC style vs Straight Sets discussion

[Dens228]

very interesting. Are u still using progressive overload principles and trying to beat numbers and weight?

Yes and no........I'm closing in on being 57 years old. I try to beat my numbers for the first set, but I could really care less about the next two sets as long as they are to failure.......so much can impact that on any given day and at my age it's not like I'm going to keep gaining strength. I also do continuous reps, no pausing to try and get another. Although one thing I've incorporated from Dante recently is doing a three count at the stretch portion of a rep. It's a way to up intensity quite a bit and keep the weight I use down. When I can't do a clean rep the set is done. It's my concession to getting older. As I got older and wiser I realized that a shit rep that takes me out for a few weeks defeats any gains I would make with that shit rep. I honestly think some of my gains the last few years are due to avoiding injury.
When I do get to the point of not getting stronger I'll reset by dropping the weight and upping the reps on that first set.....Then I'll add weight each time I hit that exercise again and I can usually blow past it. So I'm still hitting failure but with a different weight/rep scheme that gradually works its way back to the original rep scheme. It's the old powerlifter in me.....lol

 

[b_cornelius]

1.)technical failure
2.)mechanical failure
3.)total failure
4.)beyond failure

Normally beyond failure is considered beyond total failure with assistance, negative reps. Short rests are a sort of "beyond failure" within mechanical failure or technical failure.

On this note, I find it hard to feel like I get my work's worth, but there is something to the idea of technical failure where you maintain complete control of the weight and maintain a perfect tempo, terminating the set upon breaking the tempo. A lot of sets end up somewhere in between technical and mechanical failure. I bring it up because I hardly hear about these terms on forums anymore.

 

[USMuscle9403]

I like to train to failure, I don't care what science and its studies say.

Lol same. In fact probably my main issue is wanting to do too much and go beyond failure on everything I can.

 

[xpoc]

I like to train to failure, I don't care what science and its studies say.

Right. But, just to be clear in both scenarios in my original post...the lifter goes to failure. One scenario is hitting failure in a rest/pause set (failure 3x with 20 seconds rest). And the other his hitting failure in straight sets (failure 3x with a few minutes rest). On face value, adding additional rest allows you to lift more total poundage. But, as some of the guys pointed out...perhaps...using the rest/pause method you cause more muscle damage for hypertrophy.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

In terms of what recovery allows, I chalk them up in like this:
1. Straight sets
2. Cluster sets / Muscle Rounds
3. Rest Pause

all Of us can recover from str8 sets.
New stimulus if everything is all set, change some to MRs. ANOTHER new stimulus if you are just killing everything and can recover from it all, RP.

 

[Dens228]

Muscle Rounds are killer.

 

[juggy38]

Total tonnage (Weightxrepsxsets) is a poor way to calculate “hypertrophic volume”

A better way seems to count “work sets”....a set with a weight that gets very close proximity to “failure”. In your scenario 3x10 with 225lbs, the first set will definitely not get there. The second set MIGHT get there, and finally the last set where you eek out 10 reps will definitely be “work set”

Lifter B takes 225x17 reps hitting failure. Then hits it again for 8, then again for 4. Total volume is similar, but EVERY one of these sets required the high threshold motor units to complete the sets

 

[juggy38]

And I’m not saying Low volume is better. It’s a tool. Should you rest pause squats or barbell row? Probably a poor choice....leg curl or Your last set of hacks? That would be a good way for a novel stimulus,

Intensifiers are hard to gauge progression week to week, drain the CNS more. Stick to mostly straight sets, maybe 1-2 reps in the tank, and maybe on your last set of a few exercise do something grueling.

 

[hawkmoon]

IMHO DC style rest-pause works great for everyone, but especially well for advanced lifters as we need another level of stimulation to progress.
Rest-pause allows us to temporarily exceed our limits in a safe manner (providing you keep that initial failure increment high enough).
I will do at least one rest-pause set per body part in my compound movement of choice. I feel I am working harder and safer this way.

Opponents will say failure isn't necessary because it probably isn't with the subjects studied.
Even though the studies may list them as "experienced weight trainers" I'd lay good odds they would not come close to meeting our criteria.

 

[KTT]

What really comes to light is how the reps change with the lowering of the weight depending on which bodypart. Lowering the weight by 10% between sets for chest usually results in the reps going up by 2 or 3 between sets, for back they tend to stay the same between sets, maybe one rep either way......now for legs, the 10% drop results in a fairly large increase in reps........like 8-10 reps. But it also resulted in better growth.....I like to think my genetic makeup causes that and therefore results in better response for each muscle group purely by accident on my part. Just an observation and my interpretation.

Then go down 15% for back exercises. As I was doing this routine from P. I sometimes started with the lightest weigth in the 15 to 20 rep range and added 10 to 15% each set.

 

[Dugbet]

Right. But, just to be clear in both scenarios in my original post...the lifter goes to failure. One scenario is hitting failure in a rest/pause set (failure 3x with 20 seconds rest). And the other his hitting failure in straight sets (failure 3x with a few minutes rest). On face value, adding additional rest allows you to lift more total poundage. But, as some of the guys pointed out...perhaps...using the rest/pause method you cause more muscle damage for hypertrophy.

I think it all comes down to the type of exercise you are doing, squats and leg extensions... completely different.

 

[juggy38]

IMHO DC style rest-pause works great for everyone, but especially well for advanced lifters as we need another level of stimulation to progress.
Rest-pause allows us to temporarily exceed our limits in a safe manner (providing you keep that initial failure increment high enough).
I will do at least one rest-pause set per body part in my compound movement of choice. I feel I am working harder and safer this way.

Opponents will say failure isn't necessary because it probably isn't with the subjects studied.
Even though the studies may list them as "experienced weight trainers" I'd lay good odds they would not come close to meeting our criteria.

I do very much the same.

SLDL 2 straight work sets
Leg press 2 straight sets
Hacks 2 straight sets
Leg EXt 1 RP
Leg curl 1 straight set, 1 RP set

And I’m fucking fried.

 

[Dugbet]

Also from what I understand, DC uses many machines (like the HD), if you train with the majority of free weights, as in my case, it is very difficult to use these advanced techniques (besides dangerous) of rest pause in basic and heavy exercises.

 

[Dens228]

Then go down 15% for back exercises. As I was doing this routine from P. I sometimes started with the lightest weigth in the 15 to 20 rep range and added 10 to 15% each set.

Sounds like a plan....maybe I'll go the increase the weight method every so often to switch things up also. Thanks

 

[USMuscle9403]

Also from what I understand, DC uses many machines (like the HD), if you train with the majority of free weights, as in my case, it is very difficult to use these advanced techniques (besides dangerous) of rest pause in basic and heavy exercises.

I would agree that it's much safer and more effective to train DC with a spotter if you're using mostly free weights, but I don't think Dante suggests using RP at all on big, heavy compound free weight movements like deads, squats, barbell rows, etc. Those are typically straight sets only, but I'm sure there are others that do rest pause them; I'm speaking within the context of DC training, in particular. For something like squats, though, you've got heavy straight sets and widowmakers

 

[USMuscle9403]

I was bored doing cardio yesterday and rewatched Fouads interview with Jordan. Lots of good gems in there if you haven't seen it.

Oh, the one I posted I watch and rewatch Jordan's stuff and his site is one of the only things I pay for as far as subscriptions. Some of the best bodybuilding info on the web outside of here, IMO.

So weird that I used to talk to the guy occasionally on IM when he first started DC training and was an ambitious newbie. Now, 100lbs of lbm for him later, he's one of the first I'd fork out money for his coaching and to pick his brain.

 

[airman]

Oh, the one I posted I watch and rewatch Jordan's stuff and his site is one of the only things I pay for as far as subscriptions. Some of the best bodybuilding info on the web outside of here, IMO.

So weird that I used to talk to the guy occasionally on IM when he first started DC training and was an ambitious newbie. Now, 100lbs of lbm for him later, he's one of the first I'd fork out money for his coaching and to pick his brain.

Yeah, I've been a member of his site for a few years now. Haven't logged on as regularly as I have in the past, but something I keep paying for because there is tons of great info there (just need the time to go through it all)

 

[thethinker48]

Oh, the one I posted I watch and rewatch Jordan's stuff and his site is one of the only things I pay for as far as subscriptions. Some of the best bodybuilding info on the web outside of here, IMO.

So weird that I used to talk to the guy occasionally on IM when he first started DC training and was an ambitious newbie. Now, 100lbs of lbm for him later, he's one of the first I'd fork out money for his coaching and to pick his brain.

You know what's interesting about watching a lot of the content on Jordan's site?

He credits learning a lot from Pro Muscle, and frequently mentions Big A's revelation of AAS dosages that he found to be preposterous as young kid, and reality as a seasoned competitor.

 

[USMuscle9403]

You know what's interesting about watching a lot of the content on Jordan's site?

He credits learning a lot from Pro Muscle, and frequently mentions Big A's revelation of AAS dosages that he found to be preposterous as young kid, and reality as a seasoned competitor.

When you're a legit hardcore fucker like Jordan, when training and diet are at their limit, which variable needs to increase?

One reason I like Jordan is that he's pretty forward. He's admittedly really, REALLY pushed boundaries. He said his turn of heart was when Corinne genuinely asked him, "are you going to die?"

 

[Dens228]

After participating in this thread and reading all the thoughts I changed things up for my workout today......instead of the usual three sets I went back to a rest pause set. The key was keeping my reps for the first part above 15 reps.........
I think I'll stick with this and do the DC three way until the end of the year to give it a good trial and see how my joints respond. When my initial set gets above 20 reps I'll add weight..