SARMs S-4 dosage?

grasshopper · Dec 7, 2009

Do people experience the visual side effects at 50mgs/day? What is the half life of this product? Would 25mgs pre and 25mgs post workout suffice?

truckdaddy · Dec 7, 2009

grasshopper said:
Do people experience the visual side effects at 50mgs/day? What is the half life of this product? Would 25mgs pre and 25mgs post workout suffice?

that is the perfect dose....you will LOVE it.

what brand did you go with?

sarms-search · Dec 9, 2009

Conciliator · Dec 9, 2009

I think that the yellow vision and impaired night vision that people are reporting are side effects of acute overdose of S-4. Chavo, who has been selling it here for a while now, was recommending a dose of 1-3 mg per kg per day "based on current clinical trials," as he said, so that's what guys have started using it at. Some may remember when I pressed him on what those clinical trials were. He had nothing to say, because they don't exist (and I knew they didn't exist). The only clinical trials on S-4 are the ones that GTx is doing for Ostarine (their brand name for S-4). But their clinical trial on S-4 used up to a maximum of 3mg TOTAL per day. It was NOT per kg of bodyweight. That's a serious difference of a couple orders of magnitude. The dosing for this chemical has been WAY too high, because one of the primary people selling it didn't understand the research.

**broken link removed** on S-4 in rats found that anabolism in muscle was maxed out at around 0.75 mg or 2.82 mg/kg per day (see results in the levator ani, **broken link removed**). When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, that's a dose of 0.46 mg/kg. As a theoretical extrapolation to a 200 lb (91kg) man, a dose of only 42 mg/day maxes out the anabolic response. That may sound low, but it's still 14 times higher than the highest dose they used in the clinical trials, 3mg, which was still sufficient to produce an anabolic effect. You definitely don't need hundreds of mgs per day.

Suppression of natural testosterone production is another concern. While many have the impression that S-4 completely lacks suppressive activity at the hypothalamus and pituitary regardless of the dose, this notion is unsupported by the research.
Another preliminary study on S-4 found that "The activities of S-4 on LH and FSH were similar to those produced by [testosterone propionate] TP. S-1 and S-4 partially suppressed LH production at dose rates of 0.5 mg/day or higher." An absolute dose of 0.5 mg/day is equivalent to 1.9 mg/kg/day in the rats studied. When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, that's 0.31 mg/kg (1.9 * 0.162). As a theoretical extrapolation to a 200 lb (91kg) man, a dose of only 28 mg/day would start to "partially suppress LH production."

Based on the animal research that's currently available, I'd keep the dose under 30-40 mg per day. The risk to benefit ratio looks like it takes a turn for the worse at higher doses, with more side effects for little additional gain.

Hope that helps,
Conciliator

DLStryker · Dec 9, 2009

Great information Concillator..... thanks.

DLStryker

truckdaddy · Dec 17, 2009

Conciliator said:
I think that the yellow vision and impaired night vision that people are reporting are side effects of acute overdose of S-4. Chavo, who has been selling it here for a while now, was recommending a dose of 1-3 mg per kg per day "based on current clinical trials," as he said, so that's what guys have started using it at. Some may remember when I pressed him on what those clinical trials were. He had nothing to say, because they don't exist (and I knew they didn't exist). The only clinical trials on S-4 are the ones that GTx is doing for Ostarine (their brand name for S-4). But their clinical trial on S-4 used up to a maximum of 3mg TOTAL per day. It was NOT per kg of bodyweight. That's a serious difference of a couple orders of magnitude. The dosing for this chemical has been WAY too high, because one of the primary people selling it didn't understand the research.

**broken link removed** on S-4 in rats found that anabolism in muscle was maxed out at around 0.75 mg or 2.82 mg/kg per day (see results in the levator ani, **broken link removed**). When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, that's a dose of 0.46 mg/kg. As a theoretical extrapolation to a 200 lb (91kg) man, a dose of only 42 mg/day maxes out the anabolic response. That may sound low, but it's still 14 times higher than the highest dose they used in the clinical trials, 3mg, which was still sufficient to produce an anabolic effect. You definitely don't need hundreds of mgs per day.

Suppression of natural testosterone production is another concern. While many have the impression that S-4 completely lacks suppressive activity at the hypothalamus and pituitary regardless of the dose, this notion is unsupported by the research.
Another preliminary study on S-4 found that "The activities of S-4 on LH and FSH were similar to those produced by [testosterone propionate] TP. S-1 and S-4 partially suppressed LH production at dose rates of 0.5 mg/day or higher." An absolute dose of 0.5 mg/day is equivalent to 1.9 mg/kg/day in the rats studied. When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, that's 0.31 mg/kg (1.9 * 0.162). As a theoretical extrapolation to a 200 lb (91kg) man, a dose of only 28 mg/day would start to "partially suppress LH production."

Based on the animal research that's currently available, I'd keep the dose under 30-40 mg per day. The risk to benefit ratio looks like it takes a turn for the worse at higher doses, with more side effects for little additional gain.

Hope that helps,
Conciliator