Should my girl run an anti-e??

Fullybuilt · Jun 29, 2006

She's on 10mg var right now and is dieting really hard but isnt losing the weight she wants too. She def knows what to do, but we think her estrogen levels are too high naturally. Should she take some nolva? Or adex? Is this unsafe for women to take? Whats a good dose? Will she lose her breasts? Also, doesnt birth control lower estrogen? Will that help, I doubt it b/c usually women gain weight on bc but I thought it lowered estrogen so I dont see how thats possible? thanks

theprophecy13 · Jun 29, 2006

Good question, I've always wondered this myself.

ParadiseCup · Jun 29, 2006

Fullybuilt said:
She's on 10mg var right now and is dieting really hard but isnt losing the weight she wants too. She def knows what to do, but we think her estrogen levels are too high naturally.

weight ?

is it weight she wants to lose or bodyfat ?

is she doing any cardio ?

Strunk · Jun 29, 2006

Fullybuilt said:
Will she lose her breasts? Also, doesnt birth control lower estrogen? Will that help, I doubt it b/c usually women gain weight on bc but I thought it lowered estrogen so I dont see how thats possible? thanks

The leaner the female gets, they will lose some size in their breasts as they are mainly fat. Look at the top female Bbers who are lean...they have virtually no breasts unless they have implants. Birth control doesn't lower estrogen. It's actually estrogen. Now some BC may have a small amount of test added to it, but it's estrogen. That's why they gain weight on it due to the rasied estrogen levels which will make them hold water/fat.

Magnum · Jun 29, 2006

Anti E's in women are a waste of time. Nolvedex only stops the bniding at the receptors and Arimedex (if I am recalling correctly) only stops or reduces the production from the pituitary gland and is only indicated in post menopausal women. A young healthy women produces estrogen from more than one source and that is why Arimedex is not indicated in pre menopausal women with breast cancer. Although the lower in BF they get the less they tend to produce. Save your money. Nothing beats strict dieting.

Skip · Jun 29, 2006

Magnum said:
Anti E's in women are a waste of time. Nolvedex only stops the bniding at the receptors and Arimedex (if I am recalling correctly) only stops or reduces the production from the pituitary gland and is only indicated in post menopausal women. A young healthy women produces estrogen from more than one source and that is why Arimedex is not indicated in pre menopausal women with breast cancer. Although the lower in BF they get the less they tend to produce. Save your money. Nothing beats strict dieting.

If you get a chance, read the thread below and let me know what you think. I know that on paper it is questionable but I am not convinced that aromasin doesn't have an impact on helping women lower bodyfat and especially in the lower body - legs, hips, ass, etc.. I am truly on the fence due to what I have seen with a handful of clients.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17613

What say you?

Skip

Magnum · Jun 30, 2006

Skip said:
If you get a chance, read the thread below and let me know what you think. I know that on paper it is questionable but I am not convinced that aromasin doesn't have an impact on helping women lower bodyfat and especially in the lower body - legs, hips, ass, etc.. I am truly on the fence due to what I have seen with a handful of clients.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17613

What say you?

Skip

Darn you Skip fpr making me answer this cause I can never give a short answer.

Admittedly I do not have much experience with Aromasin. I'm assuming it works similar to Arimidex, correct me if I'm wrong. Either way these type of estrogen inhibitors will not work for young women with cancer as their ovaries produce way more estrogen than their pituitary gland. Nolvadex will be indicated for these class of women. Now, most girls who compete in figure and bodybuilding are in this catagory. (premenopausal) So in my opinion it will have litte effect. Now, not to sound like I am contradicting myself, but there may be times where they might be used with some effect. (except Nolvadex) More on this later.

I have trained tons of figure competitors and women bodybuilders and have never really needed to use them. There is the arguement that estrogen is responsible for where the fat is distibuted in women. We all know that women tend to hold more fat in the hip area, but this is not true for all women. Some women have a really hard time getting this fat off them, but it is not because of a lack of arimidex. It's more of a genetic problem, but given enough time the fat will come off. Unfortunately for a woman figure competitor there is no real solution to this problem. I have had some women tell me that they want to lose more fat on their lower body but not on their upper. The judges have told them that they are lean enough in the upper body region, but need to lose more fat from the waist down. If any body knows how to accomplish this then I sure wouuld like to be let in on the secret.

This lower body fat problem does not present such a problem in bodybuilders (women) because they obviously need to be much leaner. Anit-e's may help with getting a woman leaner in a quicker amount of time. Say if a woman is behind schedule. This would be the only reason that I may suggest that they use, but I am still not convinced them they actually work in this fashion, (speeding up fat loss) but they may have an indirect effect in some way. If a girl who is competing in figure can not get lean enough from diet alone then they should not be competing. It's funny cause so many of them use diuretics and talk about carbing up and doing all the same things that bodybiulders do. Some women are so dehydrated that they are passing out back stage. This is rediculous. There is no need for diuretics and all this other crap that these girls are doing. My girls get plenty lean. In fact, too much sometime.

No anti-e's or duiretics and no insulin. (bigtime use in figure) Some of the girls that I train who witness this kind of stuff backstage are totally in the dark about this, yet they get asked all the time about how they get so lean. One word, DIET!

Women bodbuilders are different. They need to get a lot leaner, but once a woman gets below a certain % of bodyfat they will stop having a period. This is when you see things really start to happen as far as how ripped they will get as (we all know) you need fat to produce certain hormones. Again, no need for anti-e's at this point even if they did work. As you said Skip, it's really hard to tell if they are working when they are contest dieting becaase of all the other things going on. I can tell you this, Arimidex does zero for me as far as getting leaner goes until I start to diet and the effects are only noticable when a guy is really lean.

Strunk · Jun 30, 2006

Well, I believe a lot of females will stop using the nolvadex and arimidex due to the new judging criteria and don't need to be that lean anymore. I won't get into whether I believe they work or not...skip and magnum have covered their opinons on that. Ranalli told the figure girls at Jr Nats that they don't want to see any separation in the legs anymore...etc. Mrs Strunk was told she was too conditioned in the BBing and got penalized for it. Times are changing. I feel sorry for the females that want to look their best but can't or else they will get penalized as they are looking for a much softer package these days. I can understand the NPC wanting to get the drug look out of the female side of things, but not everyone has to do what most have to do to succeed and they can get lean very well without going to extremes.

Magnum · Jun 30, 2006

Strunk said:
Well, I believe a lot of females will stop using the nolvadex and arimidex due to the new judging criteria and don't need to be that lean anymore. I won't get into whether I believe they work or not...skip and magnum have covered their opinons on that. Ranalli told the figure girls at Jr Nats that they don't want to see any separation in the legs anymore...etc. Mrs Strunk was told she was too conditioned in the BBing and got penalized for it. Times are changing. I feel sorry for the females that want to look their best but can't or else they will get penalized as they are looking for a much softer package these days. I can understand the NPC wanting to get the drug look out of the female side of things, but not everyone has to do what most have to do to succeed and they can get lean very well without going to extremes.

To be more specific she told them that they SHOULD NOT flex their legs. She also said, when asked what a figure girl should look like, that "You should look like Jenny Lynn". Good thing Jenny looks like herself.

There is no way that Monica and Jenny would not have cuts in their thighs if they flexed them. You know what, I was going to go on, but figure is a joke (no fault of the competitors) for more reasons I care to get into. I feel sorry for these women.

Eatbig2getbig · Jun 30, 2006

Magnum said:
To be more specific she told them that they SHOULD NOT flex their legs. She also said, when asked what a figure girl should look like, that "You should look like Jenny Lynn". Good thing Jenny looks like herself. There is no way that Monica and Jenny would not have cuts in their thighs if they flexed them. You know what, I was going to go on, but figure is a joke (no fault of the competitors) for more reasons I care to get into. I feel sorry for these women.

Come on Magnum...do tell those dirty little secrets that you know about..LOL. We want enlightened.

Magnum · Jun 30, 2006

Eatbig2getbig said:
Come on Magnum...do tell those dirty little secrets that you know about..LOL. We want enlightened.

I could write a book.

Skip · Jun 30, 2006

Magnum:

Where have you been and why am I only now recognizing your posts here? Were you on another board and/or would I know you from somewhere else?

I am going to continue to keep tabs on the aromasin vs. bodyfat issue with the women to see if there is anything to it. I appreciate your post and I appreciate even more that I was able to draw you in. lol

Skip

Magnum · Jun 30, 2006

Skip said:
Magnum:

Where have you been and why am I only now recognizing your posts here? Were you on another board and/or would I know you from somewhere else?

I am going to continue to keep tabs on the aromasin vs. bodyfat issue with the women to see if there is anything to it. I appreciate your post and I appreciate even more that I was able to draw you in. lol

Skip

Never posted much till just recently, but I did lurk for a while. :st:r-wars I've been on Getbig (am I allowed to say that here?

) for a while, but it doesn't offer any thing thought provoking. I'm sure we can learn a lot from each other. I enjoy shooting ideas around. We all have a lot to learn still and that's a big part of the fun in it all. Thanks

PUGTHUG · Jun 30, 2006

Question though,,, don't women by nature retain more body fat due to estrogen... I do realize that muscle mass and testosterone play a part in why men have an easier time with bodyfat... but with women,, just looking at some common scenarios would lead me to believe estrogen does play a huge part in fat loss,, at least for a good portion of women... Look at those who start birth control and gain 20lbs of fat, or who start HRT and again put on fat.... Could it not be reasoned that if estrogen does have a direct or indirect role on fat gain,, then lack of estrogen would do the same for fat loss? Granted that is going to be dependant on the individual's receptor sensativity and how much estrogen is present from female to female... I notice a huge difference when dieting and switching over to a heavy ant E schedule... granted some of it is water weight but there are areas of "stubborn" fat that seem to be much easier to rid when on heavy ant E's.... You two dont think Im gonna let you just sit here and discuss something while I sit on the side lines now do ya......

Magnum · Jun 30, 2006

PUGTHUG said:
Question though,,, don't women by nature retain more body fat due to estrogen... I do realize that muscle mass and testosterone play a part in why men have an easier time with bodyfat... but with women,, just looking at some common scenarios would lead me to believe estrogen does play a huge part in fat loss,, at least for a good portion of women... Look at those who start birth control and gain 20lbs of fat, or who start HRT and again put on fat.... Could it not be reasoned that if estrogen does have a direct or indirect role on fat gain,, then lack of estrogen would do the same for fat loss? Granted that is going to be dependant on the individual's receptor sensativity and how much estrogen is present from female to female... I notice a huge difference when dieting and switching over to a heavy ant E schedule... granted some of it is water weight but there are areas of "stubborn" fat that seem to be much easier to rid when on heavy ant E's.... You two dont think Im gonna let you just sit here and discuss something while I sit on the side lines now do ya......

Retain as in higher percentage? If that is what you mean then yes, but it has no real bearing on whether they can get lean or not. If that was the case all the women who have gone thru menopause would be thin and we know the story on that one. Most or all of the women who say that the Arimidex is working are on a diet anyway. Give it to a woman who is not training for a show and stays eating exactly the same way and see what happens. Actually even better, do blood work before and after. When it comes to losing fat whether it's a man or a woman it all boils down to one thing. TIME. Given enough of it all of them will get lean enough.

PUGTHUG · Jun 30, 2006

I get what your saying,, and I do agree that its not a matter of whether they can or cannot get lean... but if you have a women who has determined to diet down in 12 weeks and at 5 weeks out she has stubborn areas more than likely do you think it is estrogen based?? I mean sure she could continue to diet till its gone but if she is on a time line and you don't have time to find out how long it would take for just diet to get it wouldn't an anti E help the process?? I guess I would equate it to if I decided to diet down in 12 weeks I know I could but I know its going to happen a lot faster and more efficiantly with t3, clen, and cardio.. And granted I am all thinking of this from a competitor standpoint,, not someone whos is casually dieting down... BIG DIFFERENCE and I agree with you fully on what your saying... Just wondering for competition if you have anything against ant E's??? Especially when you have a set goal in mind?

Magnum · Jul 1, 2006

PUGTHUG said:
I get what your saying,, and I do agree that its not a matter of whether they can or cannot get lean... but if you have a women who has determined to diet down in 12 weeks and at 5 weeks out she has stubborn areas more than likely do you think it is estrogen based??

No. it's because she is too fat and needs more time.

I mean sure she could continue to diet till its gone but if she is on a time line and you don't have time to find out how long it would take for just diet to get it wouldn't an anti E help the process??

No, BUT using GH, clen and whatever else would be warrented when behind schedule. Most of the time people come to me 12 to 16 weeks out and with 20-24 weeks of bodyfat to lose. In these cases I use EVERTHING!! and they suffer too.

I guess I would equate it to if I decided to diet down in 12 weeks I know I could but I know its going to happen a lot faster and more efficiantly with t3, clen, and cardio.. And granted I am all thinking of this from a competitor standpoint,, not someone whos is casually dieting down... BIG DIFFERENCE and I agree with you fully on what your saying... Just wondering for competition if you have anything against ant E's???

Use anti-e's on guys most of the time if not all. And yes, all the other stuff when in a time crunch, but ultimately given plenty of time they are not needed. I mean t3 and GH ect.

Especially when you have a set goal in mind?