strongman/powerlifting combined with olympic lifting

[flexmaster]

how many of you powerlifters/strongman competitors incorporate the clean/power clean and or the snatch into your training? this is simply out of curiosity. i think it may lead to a good discussion...

 

[Benito]

I actually believe it is an absolute must for strongman. Power cleans, power jerks, clean pulls are the ones I tend to do. I tend to stay away from snatching as I do not have an extensive backround in olympic lifting and snatching is quite technical. I know powerlifters do some cleans but I think most of them tend to do explosive variations on the PL lifts. I love the olympic lifts and marvel at the lifters at the olympics. I wish I hode those guys geneitcs. Top olympic lifters can all sprint and jump extremely well. Those are the guys who could have been great at practically any sport.

 

[flexmaster]

I actually believe it is an absolute must for strongman. Power cleans, power jerks, clean pulls are the ones I tend to do. I tend to stay away from snatching as I do not have an extensive backround in olympic lifting and snatching is quite technical. I know powerlifters do some cleans but I think most of them tend to do explosive variations on the PL lifts. I love the olympic lifts and marvel at the lifters at the olympics. I wish I hode those guys geneitcs. Top olympic lifters can all sprint and jump extremely well. Those are the guys who could have been great at practically any sport.

yeah the snatch is MUCH too technical for someone just wanting to increase thier explosive power. i am amazed at the olympians as well...i cannot imagine doing what they do. i actually read an article one time where at this one track and field meet a bunch of olympic style lifters showed up and all but swept the entire thing. high jump, long jump, sprinting, hurdles, they took the all. its just like you said though, these are the athletes who could be great at any sport they choose.

 

[Benito]

The olympics and strongman comps are what got me interested in strength . It shows what wonderful things the body can be manipulated to do. I find it hard to undertsand why olympic lifting isn't more popular and the top athletes more lauded. I read somewhere Auguta Wrobel(apologise for the spelling) is working in a fish factory now. Considering the place olympic lifting has in the conditioning programs in many sports it's a mystery to me the lack of popularity it has. Maybe a superficial thing because of the apperance of some of the athletes and how they look unfit. Shame, I can't think of a more pure form of athleticism

 

[flexmaster]

The olympics and strongman comps are what got me interested in strength . It shows what wonderful things the body can be manipulated to do. I find it hard to undertsand why olympic lifting isn't more popular and the top athletes more lauded. I read somewhere Auguta Wrobel(apologise for the spelling) is working in a fish factory now. Considering the place olympic lifting has in the conditioning programs in many sports it's a mystery to me the lack of popularity it has. Maybe a superficial thing because of the apperance of some of the athletes and how they look unfit. Shame, I can't think of a more pure form of athleticism

i think one reason the sport doesnt have more participants is because both of the lifts are SO technical. i can teach anyone to bench press or front squat in 10 minutes. but teaching/learning the C&J let alone the snatch is another world. it is much more difficult IMO than powerlifting because of the technique factor...not that powerlifting is easy by any means! another thing to keep in mind is that even though it is nt popular here in america (in comparison to the big 3 sports, in a lot of other countries it is VERY popular and thier olympians are very well taken care of for thier entire lives.

and as far as oly lifting in sports conditioning programs...well it is unfortunate but a lot of it is about networking. thats coaching for you though

 

[Uluwatu]

i think one reason the sport doesnt have more participants is because both of the lifts are SO technical. i can teach anyone to bench press or front squat in 10 minutes. but teaching/learning the C&J let alone the snatch is another world. it is much more difficult IMO than powerlifting because of the technique factor...not that powerlifting is easy by any means! another thing to keep in mind is that even though it is nt popular here in america (in comparison to the big 3 sports, in a lot of other countries it is VERY popular and thier olympians are very well taken care of for thier entire lives.

and as far as oly lifting in sports conditioning programs...well it is unfortunate but a lot of it is about networking. thats coaching for you though

Olympic lifting is very technical, but can be taught. The problem is twofold. First, finding someone who can properly teach the mechanics of olympic lifting. Second, it is tough to find a gym that has bumper plates, good bars, and all the necessary equipment for olympic lifting.

 

[DIEZEL666]

I actually think it is easier to learn how to snatch properly than it is to power clean properly. I picked up a snatch in no time while I am still developing the flexibility to rack the bar on my shoulders in the clean.

 

[flexmaster]

Olympic lifting is very technical, but can be taught. The problem is twofold. First, finding someone who can properly teach the mechanics of olympic lifting. Second, it is tough to find a gym that has bumper plates, good bars, and all the necessary equipment for olympic lifting.

i am well aware of both of those problems. i train in the olympic lifts mysef.

 

[flexmaster]

I actually think it is easier to learn how to snatch properly than it is to power clean properly. I picked up a snatch in no time while I am still developing the flexibility to rack the bar on my shoulders in the clean.

the flexibility thing is not technical though. the snatch is much more technical of a lift than the clean. i am similar to you in that i picked up the snatch very quickly. if you have someone who can teach it well and not rush you then you can learn pretty quickly IMO.

 

[Benito]

i think one reason the sport doesnt have more participants is because both of the lifts are SO technical. i can teach anyone to bench press or front squat in 10 minutes. but teaching/learning the C&J let alone the snatch is another world. it is much more difficult IMO than powerlifting because of the technique factor...not that powerlifting is easy by any means! another thing to keep in mind is that even though it is nt popular here in america (in comparison to the big 3 sports, in a lot of other countries it is VERY popular and thier olympians are very well taken care of for thier entire lives.

and as far as oly lifting in sports conditioning programs...well it is unfortunate but a lot of it is about networking. thats coaching for you though

I am not American , I live in Scotland and it isn't that popular over here. Yes Britain sends a few people over every olympic year but they never win and never really compete with the top people. Don't get me wrong I am still very impressed with their achivements and they are competitive at commenwealth level but we don't produce top level lifters. Usually this is put down to a finance issue but I am not convinced it's the only one. Coaching has a big role too.
Also, olympic lifting is not that popular among top sportspeople from the uk in their strength programs. We are a bit behind the US in terms of recognizing the value of top quality strength and conditioning coaching. Where I live there are two football teams who pay millions of pounds for and to football players and you can see their condition deterioate over the time they play here largely due to inadequate conditioning coaching.
You are right however about the popularity of the sport in eastern europe, parts of asia and russia where tsate funding for olympic lifters is more generous than western europe and north america. I appreciate that there are some lifters who are appropriatly compensated for their acheivments but there are plenty who are not which seems more than a little unfair.
I personally would have loved to have competed in this sport but didn't get into to it early enough through a mixture of ignorance , lack of opportunity and probably being more suited to the brute strength sports.

 

[Elderly1]

Bump This

*Bump this old thread for some discussion*

It's tough to find open-minded discussion of oly lifting principles and routines.
Folks usually 'know it all' -or don't know a thing (meaning they don't perform the lifts themselves).

I may be hoping for too much here...

But I was wondering if some of the good folks who contributed to this thread may be interested in continuing the dialouge.

I do use the lifts (Snatch/C&J) as part of my program.
I enjoy them. Oly lifting is fun, challenging and seems to require more focus, coordination and mental participation than many of the other training programs I've used over the years.

I began incorporating oly lifting to improve my performance in Highland Games competition, but I've begun to enjoy the training more than the competitions themselves -which isn't all that bad IMHO.

So....any interest in the subject?

 

[flexmaster]

*Bump this old thread for some discussion*

It's tough to find open-minded discussion of oly lifting principles and routines.
Folks usually 'know it all' -or don't know a thing (meaning they don't perform the lifts themselves).

I may be hoping for too much here...

But I was wondering if some of the good folks who contributed to this thread may be interested in continuing the dialouge.

I do use the lifts (Snatch/C&J) as part of my program.
I enjoy them. Oly lifting is fun, challenging and seems to require more focus, coordination and mental participation than many of the other training programs I've used over the years.

I began incorporating oly lifting to improve my performance in Highland Games competition, but I've begun to enjoy the training more than the competitions themselves -which isn't all that bad IMHO.

So....any interest in the subject?

i love this style of training! i was going to compete in early june but ended up fracturing a vertebrae and have been trying to recover from that.

i definately know what you mean about the oly lifts requiring more concentration, coordination ect than other types of lifting...i think thats why i like it so much as well. plus, i've always been pretty explosive so this style of training was right up my alley.

as far as oly lifting helping in strongman and powerlifting (any competition really) i dont think there is any room for debate on the topic! the only aspect of athletic performance i dont think it DIRECTLY helps is speed, but that could be argued based on the high amount of work placed on the posterior chain in oly lifting.

what do you want to discuss? im all for it!.....

 

[Elderly1]

Well for what it's worth....oly lifting does tend to increase my speed.
Call me crazy, but I'm just generally more athletic when utilizing the oly's in my training.

For instance....I'm really not crazy about cardio (or energy system work-whatever) but who is, right? But I've found that oly lifting has helped my explosiveness and when I do something like running stairs....well, it's enjoyable! I get more done -with less 'wind' so to speak.

Same with sprinting....since incorporating the oly's I can run short sprints with some authority. And that's a nice benefit -and I do believe it stems from the training.

What sort of template have you been following -before your injury?

It's tough to find something challenging -yet not so advanced that you end up draining yourself -or getting injured in the process.

My biggest challenge is keeping some in the tank.
It's tough to hold back when you feel you may have a pr in you....but invariably -if I press myself...I end up being sorry I did.

 

[flexmaster]

Well for what it's worth....oly lifting does tend to increase my speed.
Call me crazy, but I'm just generally more athletic when utilizing the oly's in my training.

For instance....I'm really not crazy about cardio (or energy system work-whatever) but who is, right? But I've found that oly lifting has helped my explosiveness and when I do something like running stairs....well, it's enjoyable! I get more done -with less 'wind' so to speak.

Same with sprinting....since incorporating the oly's I can run short sprints with some authority. And that's a nice benefit -and I do believe it stems from the training.

What sort of template have you been following -before your injury?

It's tough to find something challenging -yet not so advanced that you end up draining yourself -or getting injured in the process.

My biggest challenge is keeping some in the tank.
It's tough to hold back when you feel you may have a pr in you....but invariably -if I press myself...I end up being sorry I did.

i personally feel they do help to increase certain types of speed (when done correctly). both the examples you are describing are something i hear a lot after teaching someone to do power cleans or power snatches. they are perfect for developing that type of speed! they basically teach you to EXPLODE through triple extension (extension of the ankle, knee, hip).

the injury was mostly my own fault....my spinal erectors had gotten "so big" according to the doc, that they pulled the lordotic curve out of my lower back. so eventually, i caught a clean a little out of position and felt it happen.

anyway, before my injury i was doing a oly lifting program a buddy of mine used with some good success. it looked like this:

day 1
warm up
abs
power snatch (hang below knee) 4x3
front squat 5,4,3,2,1,5
overhead press 20 reps
paired with
inverted row 3x10

day 2
warmup
abs
power clean/front squat/power jerk 5x2
RDL 4x6
lift off's (clean grip) 3x5
pullups 3x10

day 3
warmup
abs
stop squat 5x4
push press 5,4,3,2,1,5
dips-triceps work

day 4
warmup
abs
snatch + overhead squat 7x2
clean and jerk 3 waves of 3 singles (ex. 85, 90, 95 -- 90, 95, 100 -- 95, 100, 105)

done correctly this style of lifting is actually very safe. when i first started training this way i felt the best i ever had. i was a lean 210, pullups were EASY, i was fast, explosive, and flexible. when i get back fully into it, im not sure how well i will be able to squat so i might be sticking with purely snatches and only go really light with cleans.

 

[Elderly1]

Hmmmm Thanks for posting that....

So, do you do the full lifts at some point?

I don't even mess with the 'power' variations. Only reasoning I have for that is that it somehow messes with my timing when I do go back to the full lifts.

My general template is really simple (3 days/wk) and basically the same each day. I just rotate the emphasis from either cleans or snatches.

If I'm heavy on one, I go light on the other.
If I have a lot of volume on one -I do much less of the other -etc...

And if I snatch I'll work on clean pulls....if I'm focusing on cleans...I'll work snatch pulls etc...

I squat every session -not high volume, but as heavy as I can go (for that day).
One day a week I'll wave-load up to a heavy single.
The next session I'll work in the 80-85% range
And the last session of the week I'll do DE type work -very explosive sets of 2 as heavy as I can while still moving fast (60-70%)


...hope that made sense

 

[flexmaster]

Hmmmm Thanks for posting that....

So, do you do the full lifts at some point?

I don't even mess with the 'power' variations. Only reasoning I have for that is that it somehow messes with my timing when I do go back to the full lifts.

My general template is really simple (3 days/wk) and basically the same each day. I just rotate the emphasis from either cleans or snatches.

If I'm heavy on one, I go light on the other.
If I have a lot of volume on one -I do much less of the other -etc...

And if I snatch I'll work on clean pulls....if I'm focusing on cleans...I'll work snatch pulls etc...

I squat every session -not high volume, but as heavy as I can go (for that day).
One day a week I'll wave-load up to a heavy single.
The next session I'll work in the 80-85% range
And the last session of the week I'll do DE type work -very explosive sets of 2 as heavy as I can while still moving fast (60-70%)


...hope that made sense

that sounds good, how long have you been on this?


on this program day 4 is the competition day...so only snatches and c&j. on day 2 i traded out the pc/fs/pj combo for clean/power jerk. the thing i liked best about this program is that my overhead numbers really went up a lot. also, if you have never done 5,4,3,2,1,5 i would highly recommend it (for the last set of 5 you use the same weight you used on the set of 4). it increased my strength a lot.

 

[Elderly1]

Oly's and AAS

Do you happen to know anyone training the O'lifts that uses or has used AAS?

I would be fascinated to learn what compounds are used and what yielded the best results.