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T4 w/ Gh

youngbeast2231

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Anyone have any experience using T4 with gh. From the articles I've read it seems that when running gh you need the actual conversion from t4-t3 for achieve the most benefit from gh. Also was wondering if anyone could chime in about metformin to increase insulin sensitivity.
 

nattydread

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I have read both sides of this subject. I'm still on the fence. I bought the t4 but haven't used it cause I'm waiting on more info.
So I'm sub to this thread
 

fit2grow

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Anyone have any experience using T4 with gh. From the articles I've read it seems that when running gh you need the actual conversion from t4-t3 for achieve the most benefit from gh. Also was wondering if anyone could chime in about metformin to increase insulin sensitivity.

All depends on how much hgh your going to use and your thyroid panel..everyone's different.so blood work would be your answer on that. As far as metformin I'm waiting for someone to chime in on that question.
 
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saffire

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I am currently running 100-200 t4 with 5ius hgh. I feel great. Metabolism is faster for sure.But only way to tell for sure is do your blood work before and after.
 

eaglecall

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Interesting thread. Ive been trying to find more info about it too. Also for insulin sensitivity Ive been wondering about using IGF-1Lr3 instead of Metformin. But it all depends as it has been said on the blood test results of thyroid and glucose.
 

eaglecall

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Interesting thread. Ive been trying to find more info about it too. Also for insulin sensitivity Ive been wondering about using IGF-1Lr3 instead of Metformin. But it all depends as it has been said on the blood test results of thyroid and glucose.
 

youngbeast2231

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From what I understand your body will only convert t4-t3 if it actually needs it. Definitely a plus when running thyroid hormones. T4 actually helps with onset lethargy some experience with gh. As far as metformin goes I've never used it personally but have multiple friends that do 500 mg twice a day but also using insulin with it. It's basically a glorified Glucose disposal agent. If I did use t4 it probably wouldn't be anymore than 100 mcg/day. Would like some more feedback from someone with knowledge and experience on this topic.
 

goal245

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You can use t4 or t3, I prefer 25mcg - 37.5mcg when on hgh and this keeps my tsh normal. Without it I don't feel as good and TSH goes up
 

asteelz

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The data surrounding this debate is 80-late 90s and is mentioned in the endocrine society guidlines for treatment with growth hormone in adults. Granted nobody is testing this in the bb community, so my hypothesis would be supplying a small quantity of t4 to gh would help maintain normal thyroid function. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/jc.2011-0179

Metformin shouldn't be considered a glucose disposal agent, instead a regulator of whole system metabolic rate. Ampk upregulation has nutrient partitioning effects but does not shuttle glucose in the same way as endo/exogenous insulin. It can benefit somebody taking large doses of gh in maintaining euglycemia.
 

jahwah

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Interesting. Ive run t3-t4 split with gh and my results have been mixed. Im interested to learn more on this.
 

Synthetik

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I've found my body composition looks far better when running T4 alongside gh and/or tren. I don't feel I get flat at all on t4 unless I'm doing very drastic diets but that would happen either way. My TSH was very high last time I got bloods without it and I've felt far better since adding it. As for the conversion of IGF, I've probably read all of the same articles as you have and whether or not it's true, I personally think it makes a huge positive impact on my own. I use 200mcg. Never gone above. Didn't see any improvement at 100 and to be honest I never bothered with 150.
 

youngbeast2231

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I've used t3 in the past during pre contes and obviously using it will have your metabolism on fire. I was debating throwing t4 in from now in during offseason as well the keep metabolic rate through the roof allowing me to consume more food reaping the benefits of both t4 and gh. Not on large doses of gh right now just 4 iu for the time being while getting over shoulder surgery. Mainly looking into my next run. Nosnmyveins, so your basically saying id be better off running exo slin rather than metformin bc metformin is mainly for maintaining stable blood sugar while insulin actually pushes nutrients through certain pathways into the muscle?
 

asteelz

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I've used t3 in the past during pre contes and obviously using it will have your metabolism on fire. I was debating throwing t4 in from now in during offseason as well the keep metabolic rate through the roof allowing me to consume more food reaping the benefits of both t4 and gh. Not on large doses of gh right now just 4 iu for the time being while getting over shoulder surgery. Mainly looking into my next run. Nosnmyveins, so your basically saying id be better off running exo slin rather than metformin bc metformin is mainly for maintaining stable blood sugar while insulin actually pushes nutrients through certain pathways into the muscle?

Metformin offers a lot of non bodybuilding related health benefits, the metabolic pathway it upregulates has a whole system effect. It's the same pathway that exercise upregulates when atp is broken down during muscle contraction. It can also help with losing body fat but it's not going to effect your physique like clen or steroids.

I am not recommending insulin, but if your looking purely at gaining size then that is a better option over metformin. Mike Arnold has a protocol on here somewhere that is on the safer side regarding slin. I don't know your background , but it's not a beginners drug.
 

youngbeast2231

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Metformin offers a lot of non bodybuilding related health benefits, the metabolic pathway it upregulates has a whole system effect. It's the same pathway that exercise upregulates when atp is broken down during muscle contraction. It can also help with losing body fat but it's not going to effect your physique like clen or steroids.

I am not recommending insulin, but if your looking purely at gaining size then that is a better option over metformin. Mike Arnold has a protocol on here somewhere that is on the safer side regarding slin. I don't know your background , but it's not a beginners drug.

Understandable man. I don't recommend it to anyone either. I've been competing for 7 years. Superheavy on national level so I'm no newbie to using insulin. We can have a real talk about it. I've seen mike Arnold's protocol. Pretty sure he recommends humalog pre workout with 3 shakes right?
 

asteelz

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I figured if that was you in the avatar pic your not new, just had to make sure before offering an opinion. Yes, I believe so.. it's either log or Lin. Speaking from a biochemical standpoint that is the ideal way to use it, flood the tissue with nutrients when it's most sensitive. Even a step further is to have a strong short acting androgens like superdrol in the pre workout mix to force nutrients into the muscle.

I do know guys who use both metformin and insulin, ether cycled on and off in opposing time frames or together. Some diabetics have to do this as well to maintain control.
 

Gunsmith

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I figured if that was you in the avatar pic your not new, just had to make sure before offering an opinion. Yes, I believe so.. it's either log or Lin. Speaking from a biochemical standpoint that is the ideal way to use it, flood the tissue with nutrients when it's most sensitive. Even a step further is to have a strong short acting androgens like superdrol in the pre workout mix to force nutrients into the muscle.

I do know guys who use both metformin and insulin, ether cycled on and off in opposing time frames or together. Some diabetics have to do this as well to maintain control.

If someone was train at 5pm and using humulin-R injection at 4:30 , what would be the latest in the day that they would want to take a 500mg dose of metformin so that it doesn't cross over into the pre workout insulin??
 

asteelz

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If someone was train at 5pm and using humulin-R injection at 4:30 , what would be the latest in the day that they would want to take a 500mg dose of metformin so that it doesn't cross over into the pre workout insulin??

Early in the day, like with breakfast..give the two plenty of time apart. Usually in a diabetic the dr will determine dosing based on bg readings taken throughout the day, in the case of a bb we aren't being monitored so definitely be mindful of your blood glucose and test it if you feel low.
 

youngbeast2231

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If someone was train at 5pm and using humulin-R injection at 4:30 , what would be the latest in the day that they would want to take a 500mg dose of metformin so that it doesn't cross over into the pre workout insulin??

Buddy of mine that's getting ready for USA does 500 mg metformin in the morning and with last meal. Also does 16 iu humilin R pre workout. Asteelz I've never used superdrol. What about anadrol? I know it's not as androgenic as superdrol but seems like has less sides.
 

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