Testosterone Only Cycle

[Derek]

I jave been debating for a while if I should go back on. I like training Natural but would love to get back my my 240-250 bodyweight.

Im not into cocktail stacks. I like to keep it simple. Test is king so why not just use that?

I have read lots of opinions on cycling for the average gym guy but can not find the bottom line anywhere. I want to gain some muscle but not put my body in jeapordy of a crash post cycle.

I have heard
2 weeks on 2 off
2 weeks on 4 off
10 weeks on 10 weeks off
20-25 weeks on low dose

As you can tell Im kinda confused.

Here is my previous cycles.

18 years old - 21 non-stop didnt know any better.
sustanon 1 cc every 5 days 12 weeks.
Continued with opmnadren 1 cc every 3 days.
Jumped to anadrol 1 tab EOD 6 week.
Winstrol 50mg ED 8 weeks.

The cycles above were all done pretty much nonstop of with a month or 2 in between. I basically bought when I had cash.

Then I stayed clean untill april 2001 I was 26.

Cycle was 6 weeks
tren 37.5 mg EOD
winstrol tabs 50mg EOD
test 200mg weekly

I gained 25lbs hitting 247lbs!

March 2003

6 weeks
dbol 20mg 3 weeks ( bloated as all hell)
test 500mg 6 weeks

Kept sweight at 235lbs..


Now I am 213lbs and thinking about a test only cycle.

How should I do it?

I was thiknking basic
10 weeks
500mg test per week.

I have powdered novladex and some arimdex powder. ( however not 100% sure they are real)

Any suggestions?

 

[Doggtales]

I had been off for a while. I statred a test only cycle about 3 weeks ago. My funds have been limited that's why I did test only cycle. I have packed on 12 lbs over the last three weeks.

I have been doing Test Prop 100mg EOD
Test Enathate 1 gram every week. Going to drop the Prop in 2 weeks and continue on the Enath for another 7 weeks. Then around week 10 throw the Prop back in and add winny 50mg ED for 3 weeks.

 

[Dad]

the problem...

The problem is going to be more what you do to avoid side effects, and keeping gains when coming off.

You might do this:
week 1 and 2- 400-600 mg test weekly, plus 20-40 mg nolvadex daily
This keeps estrogen in the liver allowing for increased levels of IGF-1, but holds the water retention down some

week 3 - 400-600mg test weekly, 20-40 mg nolvadex daily, plus 1 arimidex or other inhibitor daily
This counteracts the increased estrogen conversion, and cortisol production as your body attempts to regain homeostasis

week 4 and 5 - 20-40mg nolvadex daily, 1 arimidex daily, 50 mg clomid every other day, 500 mg HCG every other day

Something like this should give you good gains, keep the estrogen and water retention down, and give you a fairly smooth landing, allowing you to keep the gains you make to a great extent.

If money is an issue, I'd spend a bit more on the things that'll let you come off and keep gains, rather than using extra test. what's the point in gaining 25 lbs, then giving 15+ of it back?

Just my 2 cents - others will have good ideas too, I'm sure.

 

[Derek]

so you are basically saying take it for 3 weeks?

I have novladex powder.... any idea how to make it so I can take it? I have like 7grams or so...and I also have arimadex powder that I diluted in rum. Could I do the same for the novladex?

 

[Dad]

Yes

Assumming you are using test cypionate, the half-life on this is 8 days. So Whenever you take your last shot, by 8 days later, roughly half will have been metabolized. With something with that long a half-life, even after stoping at the end of 3 weeks, it'll take another week or more just for half of that to be metabolized. THe same situation exists for sustenon, and enanthate, though their half-lives are slightly different. Aqueous suspension will have a half-life of something like 1-2 days, since it's not attached to an ester.

So, yes, I'd recommend 3 weeks (21 days) of taking in test. Start the nolvadex within the first week, and add the arimidex at day 15 or so. Keep the nolvadex and arimidex going for at least 2 weeks (preferably 3-4) after your last test shot. You could add clomid about a week or less after your last test shot, HCG week 4-5 like above.

Unfortunately, I can't help with the nolvadex powder conversion as I've never done this. Others here would be able to tell you about that, I'm sure.

 

[Derek]

is it even possible to see results on such a short cycle like that?

Ive tried it before and didnt gain anything...

im looking to slowly add another 10-20 pounds to my frame... 230 lean is my ideal weight...

Im 213 -/+ 12% fat..

 

[Dad]

Yes

Yes, you'll see results. The DEGREE will depend on a number of things including dosages, how well you come off, DIET, your training, adequate recovery, etc.

It seems one thing I've noticed is that people want it ALL, and NOW. Certainly I've been guilty of this LOL! Let's say you want to add 30 lbs of muscle (fat doesn't count). Let's further suppose that the cycle we're discussing runs 6 weeks TOTAL, and in that time you add, AND KEEP, "only" 8 lbs of muscle (lay 8 lbs of steak out on the table and see how much meat that really is!). Now let's further suppose you take 6 weeks off between these cycles. Yuo could do 4 such cycles, with 4 rest periods between cycles in the course of 1 year. Doing so would add 32 lbs of MUSCLE to your frame. Would you be happy with this? Especially if you knew you weren't taking unacceptable health risks to do it?

It's something to think about - hopefully, you'll learn faster than I did!

 

[Derek]

yeah that is my thinking but at a message board I go to.. "hooker" a mod keeps telling us how bad and uneffective these cycles are...

id much rather do shorter cycles cause im looking for clean gains.

Would I benefit from suspension or prop instead? Maybe dbol only? ( although I hear that is a nono)

 

[Dad]

Well...

I certainly can't speak to another person's view without knowing what they are saying, nor their reasoning. What I CAN say, is that I've done it both ways, and found the short cycles easier to control, MUCH healthier, and easier to retain gains. Are the gains as great per cycle? Probably on a week-to-week comparison, they're similar, but long cycles just tend to be so much more tricky (for me, at least) to control in terms of side effects, and retention of gains.

As to the suspension or prop idea, you could use these. They'll hit your system faster - and get metabolised faster. Yuo'll need more frequent dosing - meaning lots more shots, but you could use these, especially suspension, as site injection protocol for bringing up lagging bodyparts, along with overall gains. I'd start the nolvadex immediately if you elect to do this.

Some people have used dbol for the first 7-10 days to get plasma levels up fast when using longer-acting drugs like cypionate or sustenon. This is usually done with, say, 40-50mg per day to start, tapering down fairly quickly over the time period selected.

 

[Derek]

thanks!!

Im gonna go ahead with the test cypionate and give your recommendations a try.


You might do this:
week 1-2 600 mg test weekly, plus 20-40 mg nolvadex daily

week 3 600mg test weekly, 20-40 mg nolvadex daily, plus 1 arimidex

week 4 and 5 - 20-40mg nolvadex daily, 1 arimidex daily, 50 mg clomid every other day, 500 mg HCG every other day


Is HCG really neccesary? I dont have access to that...

When do I go back on? after I finish upi the PCT?

 

[Dad]

Another week

The HCG, while a nice addition, can be gotten along without. In this case, I'd stay with the nolvadex and arimidex an additional week, just to be sure your keeping the estrogen under control.

As an aside, one of the reasons the short cycles work well is that after a few weeks, your body senses an "imbalance" between anabolic and catabolic influences. Since the extra test is coming in still, it can't stop this anabolic influence, but what it can do is try to regain balance (homeostasis) by increasing catabolic influences to match the anabolic. It does this by increasing cortisol, and by aromatizing the testosterone to an estrogen in the liver. At this point, you'd have to increase your dosages (which people do) in an attempt to overcome this up-regulated cortisol/estrogen response. But then, the body up-regulates its responses again, too. At some point you've got to come off, if for no other reason than you can't just keep ratcheting up the doses to infinity (not to mention unhealthy side effects!). Now you've got the body's catabolic mechanisms running full tilt, while the anabolic influence is diminishing fast. Until your body normalizes, which could take months depending on how long you've been on, and how high the dosages were, you're going to be in a catabolic state. This means you give back A LOT of what you gained while going through all kinds of unpleasnt hormonal swings. Just ask your grilfrind or wife how they feel the week before their period and imagine enduring that for months! No thanks!

I'll admit that this is a bit of a simplified explanation, but basically, that's how it works.

Hope all goes well - I'm sure others will be able to add to what I've said!

 

[Derek]

thanks for the response....

My only question concenring test. Do you know only get to see results in week 4-5? In this cycle I stop at week 3. Even though the test is still in me for a few more weeks.

This is why I thought something quicker would be better,,

 

[Dad]

It'll take...

It'll take a couple of weeks probably to see gains if you're using just the test cypionate or something similar. It takes a little time to get plasma levels up to the point where it's having the desired effect. That's why some people use dbol, or something really fast-acting the first 7-10 days - to get plasma levels up faster.

Now, the gains you'll ultimately see on any cycle will be a function of many factors: the drugs used, dosages, diet (a HUGE factor!), type of training, recovery, the amount of the gain you're able to keep (hence the nolvadex, arimidex and clomid), avoiding injury, etc.

As to when you can go back on, one rule of thumb would be an "off" period equal to your total cycle length - in this case 6 weeks or so. So something like 6 TOTAL weeks on (test and nolvadex to nolvadex, arimidex, and to clomid to completely off), then six weeks at least of absolutely nothing (and back off just a bit on the weight and intensity in your training), then consider going back on after evaluating your results.

 

[Derek]

do you have messanger.. I dont wanna waste space here. Since your the only one giving input.

 

[weight77]

Real simple bro, run a 10 week cycle and then come off. Run 500mgs, it does not matter what you have done in the past, looking at your picture tells me you don't need more than the suggested dose. Rely more on whole foods than gear and you should have no problems. How good and how much you eat will determine whether you gain 10lbs or 30lbs.

 

[weight77]

Re: Another week

As an aside, one of the reasons the short cycles work well is that after a few weeks, your body senses an "imbalance" between anabolic and catabolic influences. Since the extra test is coming in still, it can't stop this anabolic influence, but what it can do is try to regain balance (homeostasis) by increasing catabolic influences to match the anabolic. It does this by increasing cortisol, and by aromatizing the testosterone to an estrogen in the liver. At this point, you'd have to increase your dosages (which people do) in an attempt to overcome this up-regulated cortisol/estrogen response. But then, the body up-regulates its responses again, too. !

I disagree. Do you have a study to back that up. If what you are saying were true, a person who was taking a set amount of test for long periods of time would not only stop gaining but would also start losing. Becuse the cortisol would just keep goin and going until it balanced out. Which is not ture.

 

[jawbreakerkid]

I have to disagree on this as well. I usually run cycles of 12-14 weeks and don't even use post cycle therapy at the end. I lose about 4-5lbs tops when I come off and a little strength. Under those conditions I should look like a haitian refugee after being off. What weight says makes sense too, there would be a point where you not only stop gaining, but lose muscle while being on. doesn't make sense. If you have evidence I'd like to see it...when I first read your post it at least made me think...lol

 

[Silencer]

Over the past five years, I've done almost all versions of cycles, from 2 weeks to 24 weeks. Why the difference? Because of my results... With the shorter cycles, I would gain 5-10 pounds, and then the would quickly disappear after I stopped. A lot of water, some good strength gains, but little true muscle. Think of it this way, it probably takes at least 2,500 calories above maintenance to put on a single pound of muscle [I get to this by estimating: 1 kilo = 1,000g of protein = 2.2lbs. So 1 pound = 454g x 4 calories/g = 1,800 calories per pound, plus a big extra amount necessary for all the actual "building" of the muscle cells themselves]. Regardless, there is only so much that you can eat in a short time, and thus a limited amount of muscle you can gain during that time. The rest is water and/or fat. So to truly put on a lot of solid weight, you need to be on for a longer period of time. I also believe (no study to back this up, sorry) that the longer you carry your new weight, the better your body adjusts to the weight and the easier it is to keep it.

True, longer cycles may cause more sides, or greater shutdown, but that is very person-specific... For me, my test levels got back to normal 6 weeks after an 8 week cycle AND a 16 week cycle. And I found no more side effects in terms of hair loss or acne. The only thing that I was worried about is that my HDL was repressed for 20+ weeks instead of just 8.

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I now am on a 24 week cycle, and it is the only one I'm going to do for 2004. On 6 months, off 6 months, and I have found this to be exponentially better for me as compared to my endless up-and-down rollercoaster of doing 6 on, 6 off, 6 on, 6 off, etc. Just something to think about.

 

[MikeS]

I also agree short cycles suck, for many of the reasons mentioned. And I would do similar to Doggtales cycle.
Its working so well for him and so quickly mainly because of the prop front-load, as that was what was intended (I set it up for him, he is a semi-local buddy).

 

[Derek]

Over the past five years, I've done almost all versions of cycles, from 2 weeks to 24 weeks. Why the difference? Because of my results... With the shorter cycles, I would gain 5-10 pounds, and then the would quickly disappear after I stopped. A lot of water, some good strength gains, but little true muscle. Think of it this way, it probably takes at least 2,500 calories above maintenance to put on a single pound of muscle [I get to this by estimating: 1 kilo = 1,000g of protein = 2.2lbs. So 1 pound = 454g x 4 calories/g = 1,800 calories per pound, plus a big extra amount necessary for all the actual "building" of the muscle cells themselves]. Regardless, there is only so much that you can eat in a short time, and thus a limited amount of muscle you can gain during that time. The rest is water and/or fat. So to truly put on a lot of solid weight, you need to be on for a longer period of time. I also believe (no study to back this up, sorry) that the longer you carry your new weight, the better your body adjusts to the weight and the easier it is to keep it.

True, longer cycles may cause more sides, or greater shutdown, but that is very person-specific... For me, my test levels got back to normal 6 weeks after an 8 week cycle AND a 16 week cycle. And I found no more side effects in terms of hair loss or acne. The only thing that I was worried about is that my HDL was repressed for 20+ weeks instead of just 8.

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I now am on a 24 week cycle, and it is the only one I'm going to do for 2004. On 6 months, off 6 months, and I have found this to be exponentially better for me as compared to my endless up-and-down rollercoaster of doing 6 on, 6 off, 6 on, 6 off, etc. Just something to think about.

What does your 24 weeks cycle look like?