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The diets almost over. Now What?

robot

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In a few more weeks I'll declare success. 16 weeks of neurotic undereating will come to an end. I should hit about 8-10%. Not bodybuilding good but the lowest I've been so far by a couple of percent over last year.

So the question.

Do I hold and maintain for a couple of weeks? months? and stabilize before putting on the feedbag and trying for another 10 pounds of muscle?

OR

Do I jump straight for the feedbag and try for another 10 pounds of muscle?


I'm not sure what the advantages/disadvantages of leaning out and maintaing vs. jumping back in and eating are. Last year I finished my diet @ 10-12% and got back to eating and really didn't think about anything but lifting more weight and filling my stomach. I gained too much fat but I also put on 10 pounds of lean muscle.

This year I'd like to put on less fat and more muscle :) or at least as much muscle as I can with the minimum fat necessary.
 

robot

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First off, Bodybuilders dont undereat??? You have to fuel the Machine....

Eat CLEAN. Eat CLEAN , and Eat CLEAN....why blow a diet. If ya dont wanna have higher bf% then eat clean but dont starve yourself.

read the question next time.
 

PHIL HERNON

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?

I dont understand..........why are you not gaining muscle while losing fat? You act like NOW it time to gain muscle??? Gain muscle WHILE you are losing fat.
 

robot

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I dont understand..........why are you not gaining muscle while losing fat? You act like NOW it time to gain muscle??? Gain muscle WHILE you are losing fat.

I am 11 weeks through a 16 week cutting keto diet. What is there to understand? I'm not acting I'm fucking dieting.

Start:
**broken link removed**

Current:
Mar152010-obscured.jpg


Gain muscle WHILE I lose fat? Thanks for the that phil, just what I needed.
Next time I cut my body fat from 20% to 8% in 16 weeks 'll keep that right at the top of my list of things to do.

Let me repeat the question.

When I'm finished my cutting diet is it best to maintain weight for a while and if so how long? What are the advantages/disadvantage of maintaining versus gaining?

Ask a fucking question and get a lecture on a topic that has nothing the fuck to do with the question.
 

aeliop

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My 50 cents.

In a few more weeks I'll declare success. 16 weeks of neurotic undereating will come to an end. I should hit about 8-10%. Not bodybuilding good but the lowest I've been so far by a couple of percent over last year.

So the question.

Do I hold and maintain for a couple of weeks? months? and stabilize before putting on the feedbag and trying for another 10 pounds of muscle?

OR

Do I jump straight for the feedbag and try for another 10 pounds of muscle?


I'm not sure what the advantages/disadvantages of leaning out and maintaing vs. jumping back in and eating are. Last year I finished my diet @ 10-12% and got back to eating and really didn't think about anything but lifting more weight and filling my stomach. I gained too much fat but I also put on 10 pounds of lean muscle.

This year I'd like to put on less fat and more muscle :) or at least as much muscle as I can with the minimum fat necessary.

Whatever you did, you have done a great job. If I were you I would keep doing it. You have in a way reinvented yourself, this new version looks much better then the previous. Don't return to the old version, improve on what you have accomplished.
 

bloodshed

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Whatever you did, you have done a great job. If I were you I would keep doing it. You have in a way reinvented yourself, this new version looks much better then the previous. Don't return to the old version, improve on what you have accomplished.

agreed. in those pictures you look about 10 years younger as well.
 

MAINEVENT

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Here's my 2 cents....you've busted your ass for 16 weeks to look like a bodybuilder. I would gradually increase your calories week by week.....so you still look like a bodybuilder.

Dont blow 16 weeks of hard work to "put on the feed bag".
 

PHIL HERNON

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Yes

Here's my 2 cents....you've busted your ass for 16 weeks to look like a bodybuilder. I would gradually increase your calories week by week.....so you still look like a bodybuilder.

Dont blow 16 weeks of hard work to "put on the feed bag".

But it is not that easy.......you cant just add calories or he will get fatter........gradually or not, added calories does not=more muscle. He is what he is.....a guy with some muscle and some fat.......nothing will change unless he changes hormonally or diet/training wise. He want an answer to a personal question and no answer will work for him.........
 

PHIL HERNON

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Robot

Robot, this is quoting you 2 years ago when you were bulking up to 240.....


"As a novice lifter...

I've gone from about 214 to 243 in the last 20 weeks using a very similar approach (Starting Strength plus milk).

I can never get past about 3 quarts of milk a day (plus a maintenance diet of solid food) and it turns me into a urine machine (1500 calories per week excess with a really good macro balance). It will not make you lean by any stretch of the imagination but as a beginner I can certainly put on more muscle than fat with this kind of excess."

It didnt work did it.........it wont work again..........
 

robot

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Robot, this is quoting you 2 years ago when you were bulking up to 240.....


"As a novice lifter...

I've gone from about 214 to 243 in the last 20 weeks using a very similar approach (Starting Strength plus milk).

I can never get past about 3 quarts of milk a day (plus a maintenance diet of solid food) and it turns me into a urine machine (1500 calories per week excess with a really good macro balance). It will not make you lean by any stretch of the imagination but as a beginner I can certainly put on more muscle than fat with this kind of excess."

It didnt work did it.........it wont work again..........

It did work. It worked extremely well... but it won't continue to work.

Year 1 of Gomad (gallon of milk a day) was obscenely productive in terms of muscular gain - probably a 2000+ daily calorie excess. Yes I got fat but I packed on a shit load of muscle and strength. Max bodyfat somewhere close to 30. Dieted bodyfat ~12%

Year 2 of 1-3 quarts a day - 1000-1500 calorie daily excess.. 10 pounds of lean muscle added. Pretty darn good. Max bodyfat somewhere around 20. Dieted bodyfat ~8% (5 week from now)

(starts in 5 weeks) Year 3 - I'll be looking to gain about 1/2 to 1 pound of of weight per week till the abs go disappear - 500 calorie daily excess. Not much room for milk this year. Hopefully I can add another 10'ish pounds of lean muscle with improved timing and training. Max bodyfat will be kept to about 15% and I'll be shooting to bring my post diet BF in the 5/6%

Year 4 - Same plan only max of 12/13%, dieted to 4% and
I'll probably try a novice competition if my upper body manages grow and I've put on the 15 pounds of muscle I need not to embarass myself..


.... and you still haven't answered the question. Just more lecturing.


And the "Is there a metabolic/physiologic advantage to maintaining a lowered body weight for a period of time before engaging in weight gain" is not a personal question.
 
Last edited:

PHIL HERNON

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Oh man

It did work. It worked extremely well... but it won't continue to work.

Year 1 of Gomad (gallon of milk a day) was obscenely productive in terms of muscular gain. Yes I got fat but I packed on a shit load of muscle and strength. Max bodyfat somewhere close to 30. Dieted bodyfat ~12%

Year 2 of 1-3 quarts a day.. 10 pounds of lean muscle added. Pretty darn good. Max bodyfat somewhere around 20. Dieted bodyfat ~8%

(starts in 5 weeks) Year 3 - I'll be looking to gain about 1/2 to 1 pound of of weight per week till the abs go disappear. Not much room for milk this year. Hopefully I can add another 10'ish pounds of lean muscle with improved timing and training. Max bodyfat will be kept to about 15% and I'll be shooting to bring my post diet BF in the 5/6%

Year 4 - Same plan only max of 12/13%, dieted to 4% and
I'll probably try a novice competition if my upper body manages grow and I've put on the 15 pounds of muscle I need not to embarrass myself..

It aint that easy........you were 243, fat, from 214, now down to 200.......still fat...." obscenely effective"??.....and you ask now what? You are 15% now............go get hydro statically weighed.......if you step on a stage any time soon you would look fat..............so consider that before you think about competing..........so to answer your question, you are fat with a little muscle.....answered?
 

robot

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But it is not that easy.......you cant just add calories or he will get fatter........gradually or not, added calories does not=more muscle. He is what he is.....a guy with some muscle and some fat.......nothing will change unless he changes hormonally or diet/training wise. He want an answer to a personal question and no answer will work for him.........

In the last 2 1/2 years I have put on about 40 pounds of lean muscle on my frame starting from a serious undermuscled and overweight base.

Last year I added 10 pounds of lean muscle to my frame.

I'm guessing I can match that next year with what I've learned this year but diminshing returns may show up.

When I ask if there is a physiologic benefit to maintaining a lowered bodyfat percentage prior to putting on more mass it is not a personal question.

It is a question of whether this will make it easier for my body sustain or return to that level of bodyfat 16-20 weeks later.

.... all that said despite the fact that you are an extremely knowledgeable person. How you choose to respond to me simply leaves me irritated with your flippant and useless answers. The persona you have chosen is not helpful to me.

So I hope you understand when I say that it's simply easier for me to add you to my ignore list.
 

PHIL HERNON

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HAhahahha

In the last 2 1/2 years I have put on about 40 pounds of lean muscle on my frame starting from a serious undermuscled and overweight base.

Last year I added 10 pounds of lean muscle to my frame.

I'm guessing I can match that next year with what I've learned this year but diminshing returns may show up.

When I ask if there is a physiologic benefit to maintaining a lowered bodyfat percentage prior to putting on more mass it is not a personal question.

It is a question of whether this will make it easier for my body sustain or return to that level of bodyfat 16-20 weeks later.

.... all that said despite the fact that you are an extremely knowledgeable person. How you choose to respond to me simply leaves me irritated with your flippant and useless answers. The persona you have chosen is not helpful to me.

So I hope you understand when I say that it's simply easier for me to add you to my ignore list.

The definition of madness is doing something over and over again and getting the same result...........SO.......are you crazy because you keep yo-yo dieting or am I crazy for trying to keep helping you? hahhahahhaha
 

nsb1215

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out of curiouosity, why are you so adament in " jumping on the feedbag" and trying for another 10 pounds??
the scale isnt your freind bro, use a mirror and be honest... you've done an awesome job at dropping bf% so far...keep it up... dont go back to square 1....

phil is being phil, honest and brutallly (sometimes) at that, but he's HONEST...listen to what he's sayin...he's trying to help

get real lean, i mean really lean and find your weak points and work on them... 10 lbs or 20lbs or whatever you want to add, do it at the fastest rate you can without taking your bf% overboard if you cant take dieting... thats my .02


and i think you've done great...keto is a mental battle for sure....


good luck robot

In a few more weeks I'll declare success. 16 weeks of neurotic undereating will come to an end. I should hit about 8-10%. Not bodybuilding good but the lowest I've been so far by a couple of percent over last year.

So the question.

Do I hold and maintain for a couple of weeks? months? and stabilize before putting on the feedbag and trying for another 10 pounds of muscle?

OR

Do I jump straight for the feedbag and try for another 10 pounds of muscle?


I'm not sure what the advantages/disadvantages of leaning out and maintaing vs. jumping back in and eating are. Last year I finished my diet @ 10-12% and got back to eating and really didn't think about anything but lifting more weight and filling my stomach. I gained too much fat but I also put on 10 pounds of lean muscle.

This year I'd like to put on less fat and more muscle :) or at least as much muscle as I can with the minimum fat necessary.
 

robot

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Oct 22, 2008
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out of curiouosity, why are you so adament in " jumping on the feedbag" and trying for another 10 pounds??
the scale isnt your freind bro, use a mirror and be honest... you've done an awesome job at dropping bf% so far...keep it up... dont go back to square 1....

phil is being phil, honest and brutallly (sometimes) at that, but he's HONEST...listen to what he's sayin...he's trying to help

get real lean, i mean really lean and find your weak points and work on them... 10 lbs or 20lbs or whatever you want to add, do it at the fastest rate you can without taking your bf% overboard if you cant take dieting... thats my .02


and i think you've done great...keto is a mental battle for sure....


good luck robot


I think I need another 15-20 pounds of muscle on my upper body (my weak points are I don't have enough muscle). I'd like to get there in 2 years. The fastest way of putting on muscle that I know of is food, training and aas.

My objective is to gain 10 pounds of lean muscle in the next 12 months and to achieve a bodyfat a couple of percent lower than my leanest this year at the end. I'd like to do this 2 years in a row.

My objective is NOT to gain as much muscle as I can while staying as lean as possible. It may be someone elses but it is not mine. I'm 43 years old, not 20. I'm not going to magically throw on muscle on a calorie constrained diet. I'm neither young nor genetically gifted.

While I would certainly like to constrain fat accumulation I'm not interested in doing it a the price of limiting gaining muscle. Phil used my question to jump on his soapbox rather than answer my question. As smart a guy as he is, he isn't terribly interested in helping in this case. He didn't read my posts or answer my questions but instead skimmed and used them to post his own tirade.

The question never did get answered but I don't suppose it matters. I'll do my research and figure out what works.
Looks like I found a clue

**broken link removed**
 
Last edited:

maldorf

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But it is not that easy.......you cant just add calories or he will get fatter........gradually or not, added calories does not=more muscle. He is what he is.....a guy with some muscle and some fat.......nothing will change unless he changes hormonally or diet/training wise. He want an answer to a personal question and no answer will work for him.........

I am glad that you said this. I was thinking the exact same thing. Its a lesson I learned the hard way, and after I met Phil he helped to drive the concept home to me. For the most part for me all that would happen if I increased my calories is that I would add bodyweight in the form of fat. After I used Phil's approach I was actually able to add muscle while losing fat. I have pics to prove it. Its a slow process, and hard for someone that is in love with the scale. Its hard to see yourself not gaining any weight and not looking any diffrenent week to week. If you take pictures though, youll see significant changes in your bodycomposition as you add muscle and drop fat. In order to accomplish that you will need to change training or supplements if you have been at this for awhile. If youre new to the game,then just about anything you do will cause changes.
 

pesty4077

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Robot, speaking as a guy at 50, here is my observation: You look 100% better in that second picture. In the first picture, you don't even look like you work out, but a typical 43 year old man. You keep mentioning diets, but you don't ever mention a lifestyle, which is more important. Phil can be blunt, but he is trying to tell you something, you probally don't want to hear.

Get off those keto diets and just eat healthy all year, this way you won't yo yo up and down. Can you look lean all year and put on good muscle weight? Yes! When you get older, your first priority should be health and a fit, lean lifestyle. I just believe you are doing the wrong diet. There is no fast, healthy way to put on muscle, it takes time. If you took that 2nd picture and got a little leaner, you would look fantastic. Remember Quality outshines Quanity.

By the way, I will probally be 15 pounds heavier this year for my next show and stay real lean in the off season. It is possible, you just have to increase the right calories and nutrients. You did do a great job in your tansformation, why waste it?
 

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