The diets almost over. Now What?

[Gunsmith]

Hire a trainer bro , it seems that you don't have a good grasp on nutrition ,get hooked up with sombody that does .

you can gain muscle and drop bodyfat at the same time , so long as your nutrition and training are in check.

the idea of "feeding up" gaining alot of fat then trying to diet it off is like pushing a rope , it can be done but its not the least bit effecient

 

[animal eater]

Hire a trainer bro , it seems that you don't have a good grasp on nutrition ,get hooked up with sombody that does .

you can gain muscle and drop bodyfat at the same time , so long as your nutrition and training are in check.

the idea of "feeding up" gaining alot of fat then trying to diet it off is like pushing a rope , it can be done but its not the least bit effecient

What he said is spot on. Robot you have made significant improvements both in how you look and I am guessing how you feel. The reality is not everyone is an expert in every field that they try. A little guidance can go a long way. Many of us make a living by study and practice of a few limited things and become good at teaching them to help others help themselves.

If I were you and I can already hear you say" you aren't answering my question" I would continue leaning up for a month or two longer and THEN
introduce a FEW more calories and most likely tweek you training program to create a new stimulus in your workouts. Best of luck. animal eater

 

[nsb1215]

What he said is spot on. Robot you have made significant improvements both in how you look and I am guessing how you feel. The reality is not everyone is an expert in every field that they try. A little guidance can go a long way. Many of us make a living by study and practice of a few limited things and become good at teaching them to help others help themselves.

If I were you and I can already hear you say" you aren't answering my question" I would continue leaning up for a month or two longer and THEN
introduce a FEW more calories and most likely tweek you training program to create a new stimulus in your workouts. Best of luck. animal eater

x2..

no body said you didnt look better...you do, keep up the good work...

 

[lucian]

It's odd to me that when I write, that my objective is to "put on 20 pounds of muscle in the next 2 years" that I get a bunch of people telling me it isn't or it shouldn't be or how about....

At 5' 9" , 207 this morning @ ~13% I think the objective is specific, measurable, attainable, realistic and timely. So whatever your opinion I believe it meets the criteria of a good objective.

My original question was how long to shift into maintenance before further modifying my diet after cutting.

The answer is about 2 weeks to give the metabolism a chance to balance out.

I'll reintroduce carbs slowly to the tune of 100 or so grams a day from my current 30-40 allowing the calories to increase until my weight is stable and then wait another 2 weeks to even out the keel. (I'm already consuming adequate protein/fat)

At that point I will likely increase my carbs by another 30-40 grams watch it for a week and see if I gain weight to the tune of 1/2 - 1 pound (250-500 calorie excess). I'll keep this level of weight gain going until my abs are just barely visible 15%.

Assuming I can actually add 10 pounds of muscle this year (about 9 months - May-Dec)

200 + 36 = 236 pound total weight
Starting @ 200 pds @ 8 % = 16 pounds of fat (It will likely be more like 195 pounds but i'm rounding)
20 + 16 = 36 pounds of fat at the end of december or 15% bodyfat.
(More than 10 would be fine too but unexpected).

Training will be either DC 2 way split (current program for the last 9 months) or a 5x5 variation. I suspect I could theoretically get more out of a 5x5 program but I really enjoy DC and beating the logbook so I'm undecided. I've tried volume training previously and I neither grew nor got stronger with it.

Cardio - 5 times a week 30 minutes.

Test/NPP will be the aas of choice, likely in the 1000/700 mg range

... Now explain to me what exactly why this is such a stupid plan. To me it seems like the best plan for achieving the objective - which to 10 pounds of lean muscle added to my frame @ 8-10% BF.

While I'm not sure how much muscle you guys burn off dieting down to 4% the muscle sticks around pretty much 100% at least to 12% in my experience to date.

holy crap! whats with all these calculations? bro if you follow this.....you are gonna get fat. right now judging by the pics you are about 15% if not higher. im not bashing you. not at all.you made some great progress and look great but lets be real.

you didnt gain 40lb of lean mass. and not 10lb this year either.

even the genetic elite dont gain like that. ive see my bro gain 40lb of muscle....and he looked totally different. you could tell it was solid wt.

imho.....get lean. you may say...who the fuck are you lucian...imca guy who used to think i was lean enough and kept getting my ass kicked onstage...until i put my ego aside and dropped the fat and really got lean. then things changed. so i was where you are before bro.

there are a lota good guys here giving you good advice to help you.

throw away your calculations and listen....or next time you are gonna be cutting to get all that fat off again!


lucian

 

[Johnny Smiles]

It did work. It worked extremely well... but it won't continue to work.

Year 1 of Gomad (gallon of milk a day) was obscenely productive in terms of muscular gain - probably a 2000+ daily calorie excess. Yes I got fat but I packed on a shit load of muscle and strength. Max bodyfat somewhere close to 30. Dieted bodyfat ~12%

Year 2 of 1-3 quarts a day - 1000-1500 calorie daily excess.. 10 pounds of lean muscle added. Pretty darn good. Max bodyfat somewhere around 20. Dieted bodyfat ~8% (5 week from now)

(starts in 5 weeks) Year 3 - I'll be looking to gain about 1/2 to 1 pound of of weight per week till the abs go disappear - 500 calorie daily excess. Not much room for milk this year. Hopefully I can add another 10'ish pounds of lean muscle with improved timing and training. Max bodyfat will be kept to about 15% and I'll be shooting to bring my post diet BF in the 5/6%

Year 4 - Same plan only max of 12/13%, dieted to 4% and
I'll probably try a novice competition if my upper body manages grow and I've put on the 15 pounds of muscle I need not to embarass myself..


.... and you still haven't answered the question. Just more lecturing.


And the "Is there a metabolic/physiologic advantage to maintaining a lowered body weight for a period of time before engaging in weight gain" is not a personal question.

i think those are embarrassing numbers. the 15% is getting CLOSE to living the lifestyle but the numbers before that? LOL. embarrassing. i have added as much or prolly more mass than you and never got fat so why do you think you have to?
actually ALOT of people get muscle gains same rate as you and never had to get fat. maybe you are just lazy?
maybe you like to be fat?
maybe you don't know how to eat properly?
maybe you should hire phil....?
-JS

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Oh no!

i think those are embarrassing numbers. the 15% is getting CLOSE to living the lifestyle but the numbers before that? LOL. embarrassing. i have added as much or prolly more mass than you and never got fat so why do you think you have to?
actually ALOT of people get muscle gains same rate as you and never had to get fat. maybe you are just lazy?
maybe you like to be fat?
maybe you don't know how to eat properly?
maybe you should hire phil....?
-JS

No way I would give that guy any of my time.........never. I want to help nice, deserving, open minded people........this guy is a fight waiting to happen.

 

[robot]

On the internet everyone is sub 10%, over 200 pounds, gains more than 10 pounds of lean muscle a year, and benchs 405 for reps.

In the gym that number is 0.

All you ballsy boys should post your pictures of your progress. The only consistently lean guys I've ever see in the gym are well under 150 pounds and never gain muscle.

The big guys I've met who are actually moving serious weight and putting on muscle eat big and put on body weight.

On the internet of course all this magically changes.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Hey

On the internet everyone is sub 10%, over 200 pounds, gains more than 10 pounds of lean muscle a year, and benchs 405 for reps.

In the gym that number is 0.

All you ballsy boys should post your pictures of your progress. The only consistently lean guys I've ever see in the gym are well under 150 pounds and never gain muscle.

The big guys I've met who are actually moving serious weight and putting on muscle eat big and put on body weight.

On the internet of course all this magically changes.

And you will never be one of those big boys............sorry. Get lean now and you are looking at 155-160........accept it because with your state of mind, it aint gonna happen.

 

[pesty4077]

It is possible, 10 pounds on in 6 months and leaner.
Before:

 

[pesty4077]

AFTER:

 

[robot]

It is possible, 10 pounds on in 6 months and leaner.
Before:

I'm extremely impressed. I don't "see" the 10 pounds but I will take your word for it. That's close to miraculous, and especially for an adult. When the young guys pull that off you can usually chalk it up to still growing.

That you did that amazes me. How many years of consistent training prior to the before/after pics?

 

[Johnny Smiles]

WRONG

On the internet everyone is sub 10%, over 200 pounds, gains more than 10 pounds of lean muscle a year, and benchs 405 for reps.

In the gym that number is 0.

All you ballsy boys should post your pictures of your progress. The only consistently lean guys I've ever see in the gym are well under 150 pounds and never gain muscle.

The big guys I've met who are actually moving serious weight and putting on muscle eat big and put on body weight.

On the internet of course all this magically changes.

man, you just don't know...
you admitted you use steroids, what do you think they are capable of? you don't think you can take juice and eat RIGHT and stay lean and gain muscle? i worked for Milos Sarcev at the Kolosium in Fullerton, CA and saw a MYRIAD of guys NEVER get fat and they were big as fuck. look up videos of phil hernon, even off season he was NEVER 30% bodyfat. and at your age thats damn near dangerous. at any age its repulsive.
you are sooooo lost.
some of the sharpest guys on here have offered their advice for FREE and you claim we are all full of shit? man, i won't post pics cuz it would just make you feel worse.
i NEVER saw Milos Sarcev fat. not even close. try to find ONE pic of him even close to overwieght. you won't. and he is bigger than you will ever be.

i am sorry for you bro. only a fool asks for help then refuses to believe the answers from people who have LIVED it. i don't gain a single thing from telling you that you can be lean and healthy and STILL gain muscle. ESPECIALLY with steroids. fuck, thats almost what they were made for lol. if you were nattie i might understand but your not. so you don't even know the power of those drugs cuz you think the "feedbag" is the answer. wow.
there are sooooo many people i could mention that were NEVER fat (over 15% bodyfat) and got MASSIVE.
good luck to you sir. we all tried........
if a bunch of seasoned guys all tell you the same thing its a conspiracy OR its the truth.
i tend to think it must be the truth......... but what do i know, i am just bigger and leaner than you. must be magic. OR i am a 13 yr old boy who enjoys wasting his time telling you i am lean.
the truth: i put on 10 pounds a year nattie for 3-4 years, then used supplements and put on another 10 pounds per year for another 3-4 years. but i know you don't believe me. oh well.... -JS

 

[pesty4077]

I'm extremely impressed. I don't "see" the 10 pounds but I will take your word for it. That's close to miraculous, and especially for an adult. When the young guys pull that off you can usually chalk it up to still growing.

That you did that amazes me. How many years of consistent training prior to the before/after pics?

I got to admit, I haven't train like a BB for years. Just did an overall healthy program, but didn't eat like a BB. Nutrition will make or break you. I am currently 50 and putting on muscle size. I generally stay at 10-12% in the off season. The weight here is 205 for both pictures. Here is one more at 205 1 year later.

 

[robot]

man, you just don't know...
you admitted you use steroids, what do you think they are capable of? you don't think you can take juice and eat RIGHT and stay lean and gain muscle? i worked for Milos Sarcev at the Kolosium in Fullerton, CA and saw a MYRIAD of guys NEVER get fat and they were big as fuck. look up videos of phil hernon, even off season he was NEVER 30% bodyfat. and at your age thats damn near dangerous. at any age its repulsive.
you are sooooo lost.
some of the sharpest guys on here have offered their advice for FREE and you claim we are all full of shit? man, i won't post pics cuz it would just make you feel worse.
i NEVER saw Milos Sarcev fat. not even close. try to find ONE pic of him even close to overwieght. you won't. and he is bigger than you will ever be.

i am sorry for you bro. only a fool asks for help then refuses to believe the answers from people who have LIVED it. i don't gain a single thing from telling you that you can be lean and healthy and STILL gain muscle. ESPECIALLY with steroids. fuck, thats almost what they were made for lol. if you were nattie i might understand but your not. so you don't even know the power of those drugs cuz you think the "feedbag" is the answer. wow.
there are sooooo many people i could mention that were NEVER fat (over 15% bodyfat) and got MASSIVE.
good luck to you sir. we all tried........
if a bunch of seasoned guys all tell you the same thing its a conspiracy OR its the truth.
i tend to think it must be the truth......... but what do i know, i am just bigger and leaner than you. must be magic. OR i am a 13 yr old boy who enjoys wasting his time telling you i am lean.
the truth: i put on 10 pounds a year nattie for 3-4 years, then used supplements and put on another 10 pounds per year for another 3-4 years. but i know you don't believe me. oh well.... -JS

That you put on 80 pounds of muscle in less than 10 years puts you in the realm of superfreak and you know it. That there are other freaks in Sarcev's gym doesn't shock me either.

That I started weightlifting at the age of 40, with an initial body fat of 30% seems to offend you. Tough.

I'm not Milos Sarcev nor am I you. I'm a 43 year old man who has been lifting for 2.5 years and has put on about 35 pounds of muscle and gone from an extremely weak 220 @ 30% to 207 @ ~13% and is shooting for 190-200 @ 8% shortly ( I think about 195) I'll be booking a test at the univerity to get a baseline number to start the new year - it's only $40)

I have only been able to put on the muscle that I have put on by lifting heavy, eating 1.5-2.0 grams of protein plus excess calories, and abusing the shit out of aas.

My training, eating and aas have all been consistent and not haphazard.

While I'm willing to believe that you can achieve these great results without having to go to extremes I don't appear to be quite so gifted. While I can reduce that fat gain (I spilled over in the last 10 pounds with little gain this year and could have dieted down earlier).

In order not to overtrain I seem to need the excess calories or I simply start breaking and injure.

 

[Ivan]

What??!

On the internet everyone is sub 10%, over 200 pounds, gains more than 10 pounds of lean muscle a year, and benchs 405 for reps.

In the gym that number is 0.

All you ballsy boys should post your pictures of your progress. The only consistently lean guys I've ever see in the gym are well under 150 pounds and never gain muscle.

The big guys I've met who are actually moving serious weight and putting on muscle eat big and put on body weight.

On the internet of course all this magically changes.

Well maybe but not on this board. This board boasts some very elite level athletes and bbers. Just look in the members pic section. You made some progress and should be proud, but it is also insulting to some like Phil who have gone to the top and you scoff at his advice. On this board you are in the minority, and if we were to have a PM reunion and you showed up, you would run for the door in a panicked state of holy shit. You are not 12%, ok man? At least not yet. Keep working. It reminds me of the guy who claims he runs a 4.4 or 4.5 40 yd dash, but in all reality he is a 4.9. Seems like on the internet your bf magically changes robot. You talk about going down to 8% like it's no thing, but are wanting to pack on more mass -- guess what? The lower your bf, the more you mass will come out. Once you get real lean, then you can see where to go from there and what is lagging/weak etc. You also should be thankful to have a guy like Phil (imagine an all-star pro athlete) contributing in your thread. Some of your responses make no sense. You seem to have gotten so defensive, nobody was attacking you, but we will not blow smoke up your ass here at PM. I can understand being jealous of Phil's physique, (hell we all are lol) but no need to be a dick about it bro. Chill out and realize some of these dudes can really help you.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

ok, cool bro...

That you put on 80 pounds of muscle in less than 10 years puts you in the realm of superfreak and you know it. That there are other freaks in Sarcev's gym doesn't shock me either.

That I started weightlifting at the age of 40, with an initial body fat of 30% seems to offend you. Tough.

I'm not Milos Sarcev nor am I you. I'm a 43 year old man who has been lifting for 2.5 years and has put on about 35 pounds of muscle and gone from an extremely weak 220 @ 30% to 207 @ ~13% and is shooting for 190-200 @ 8% shortly ( I think about 195) I'll be booking a test at the univerity to get a baseline number to start the new year - it's only $40)

I have only been able to put on the muscle that I have put on by lifting heavy, eating 1.5-2.0 grams of protein plus excess calories, and abusing the shit out of aas.

My training, eating and aas have all been consistent and not haphazard.

While I'm willing to believe that you can achieve these great results without having to go to extremes I don't appear to be quite so gifted. While I can reduce that fat gain (I spilled over in the last 10 pounds with little gain this year and could have dieted down earlier).

In order not to overtrain I seem to need the excess calories or I simply start breaking and injure.

genetics are a crazy thing in this sport. if you consistently break and injure it might be time for gh....
i am just glad that you are PASSIONATE. thats what truly matters. without that there is no hope. keep us all up to date on your results. i just wanna help. thats all.
all bodies are different, BUT we are all humans and what works for one human should work pretty well for another human. i love your passion. just don't be scared to try something totally different cuz you just might get TOTALLY different results. -JS
ps. pm me if you ever wanna go back and forth about things that work for you and work for me. just like you i am always ready to learn from others experiences.

 

[RINO]

On the internet everyone is sub 10%, over 200 pounds, gains more than 10 pounds of lean muscle a year, and benchs 405 for reps.

In the gym that number is 0.

All you ballsy boys should post your pictures of your progress. The only consistently lean guys I've ever see in the gym are well under 150 pounds and never gain muscle.

The big guys I've met who are actually moving serious weight and putting on muscle eat big and put on body weight.

On the internet of course all this magically changes.

I honestly believe the majority of the active usesr on this site are at least that big and close to that lean.They may not gain 10lb a yr or bench 405 . But their stats are probably at LEAST in that range.I'm 33 and been at it only a little over 2yr now and I'm in that range so I believe you can do it as well.You may just want a little guidance to make it easier.These guys really know what they are talking about.What's it gonna hurt give some of the ideas a try.

 

[lucian]

just curious.....where does all this emphasis on bf% come from? who gives a shit. if your lean.....your lean. caliper, ect readings dont matter.....exept for you to brag im so and so % and you know what......everyone who puts too much on this % stuff looks like shit and is now way near what they say.

shooting for a % doesnt make sense. when you get there....then what? how bout get lean.....look dame good. look like a competitor....and stay there.

non of these numbers make sense to me.

lucian

 

[lucian]

btw be careful calling people out on here....there are some damn good guys on here.

 

[lucian]

here is my transformation with the help of levrone.....195lb to 231lb in 4 weeks time.and im not any fatter. i figure it was about 25 solid puonds and about 10 pounds of water and fat.



now, this was muscle i was regaining.....its not new muscle, but you can see what it looks like to gain that ammount of wt and with very little fat!

lucian