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The Primobolan or primo files


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Feb 27, 2008
Thanks for comments Elvia1023.

It were these studies on intermittent fasting combined with cardio that peaked my interest, and when I followed the same program on a keto diet, it worked for me for rapidly loosing fat without loosing any muscle mass:

"Rapid weight loss without losing muscle: combine intermittent fasting and cardio": https://www.ergo-log.com/rapid-weig...-combine-intermittent-fasting-and-cardio.html

"Experienced strength athletes lose fat by intermittent fasting, not muscle mass or strength:" https://ergo-log.com/strength-athle...tent-fasting-not-muscle-mass-or-strength.html

Deca inhibits nitrous oxide: https://www.musculardevelopment.com...deca-dick-explained-at-last.html#.XOFOUKR7nIU

Tren even in the lowest doses caused waking up in the middle of the night, terrible sleep, higher test doses & deca caused blood pressure rise from my normal 120/70, same with d-ball, primo none of the side effects of the above & no bloating. Also concerned about how deca inhibits nitrous oxide and damages blood vessels from a study I saw at ergo log.

I like to stay on a keto diet as there is zero bloat when using mk677, which increases my igf-1 levels to equivalent of 3.4iu of pharm grade HGH from China, 372 igf-1 for 1st 2 week, then levels out to 327 ng/ml for the 6 months after that. Then I go off it for 5 months. Able to keep the fat off with the keto diet year round, and workouts are just as intense, keep my protein at 240g a day as it is a modified keto diet: Palumbo keto diet. Been working out since my early 20's, age is 49.
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I actually wanted to edit my post as I thought I sounded a bit of a tit to you but it wouldn't let me when I tried.

It's great you have found a way of eating that suits you best. Everyone is different and certain diets work better for certain people. Overall energy balance is the most important factor in everything. However some people for a variety of reasons may get better results going keto or perhaps even fasting. Fasting is very popular all over and for good reason. Although fasting doesn't result in more weight loss if calories are the same for the week. However if following a certain diet plan or fasting protocol enables people to hit a certain calorie intake then great. Moreover certain ways of eating also help people follow certain diets. I know many who don't experience bad cravings on keto for example. Although some seem to think keto is a magical way to burn more fat even when consuming the same amount of calories but that's not true. It's true people oxidize more fat on keto but thats simply because they are eating more fat to begin with (using fat as fuel). I am following a keto diet myself now but it was mainly done for mental reasons and get me back on track which it has done with great effect.
Last edited:


Active member
Dec 27, 2011
Thanks Elvia1023, glad to hear you are giving it a go for mental reasons. Everyone is different, very true, have to find what works for you. I'll try and get a photo up here eventually. Even though my blood exam for insulin and A1C were completely normal, I just can't handle carbs like I used to, keto has worked well for this person with this predicament, allowed me to get from 15% to 12% body fat over several months, and minimize fat gain while adding muscle yearly.

Elvia1023 said:
I actually wanted to edit my post as I thought I sounded a bit of a tit to you but it wouldn't let me when I tried.

It's great you have found a way of eating that suits you best. Everyone is different and certain diets work better for certain people. Overall energy balance is the most important factor in everything. However some people for a variety of reasons may get better results going keto or perhaps even fasting. Fasting is very popular all over and for good reason. Although fasting doesn't result in more weight loss if calories are the same for the week. However if following a certain diet plan or fasting protocol enables people to hit a certain calorie intake then great. Moreover certain ways of eating also help people follow certain diets. I know many who don't experience bad cravings on keto for example. Although some seem to think keto is a magical way to burn more fat even when consuming the same amount of calories but that's not true. It's true people oxidize more fat on keto but thats simply because they are eating more fat to begin with (using fat as fuel). I am following a keto diet myself now but it was mainly done for mental reasons and get me back on track which it has done with great effect.

One of my favorite articles:
Keto Bodybuilding: Can You Gain Muscle Without Carbs?

Dr. Anthony Gustin, DC, MS

Fact-checked by Dr. Anthony Gustin, DC, MS.

Written by Lorenz Mac

on September 25, 2018

There’s a common misconception in the bodybuilding space that you need carbohydrates to build muscle. So does this mean you can’t successfully build muscle on the ketogenic diet?

After all, the ketogenic diet requires you to keep carbs to a minimum.

It turns out, the high-carb paradigm is outdated.

In fact, the ketogenic diet can help increase strength and build muscle while minimizing fat gain[*].

A new wave of bodybuilders are now using the low-carb, high-fat lifestyle to build muscle without carbohydrates.

In this article, we’ll talk about:

•Why you don’t need carbs on the ketogenic diet
•The importance of protein
•Using a targeted ketogenic diet approach for bodybuilding
•How many calories should you eat to build muscle
•Importance of monitoring electrolytes
•The ketogenic pre-workout shake
•Tips for building muscle on the keto diet
•What not to do when bodybuilding on keto
•Ketone production versus ketone utilization

The Common Misconception: You Need Carbs to Build Muscle

The traditional bodybuilding nutrition protocol assumed that carbohydrates were required to build muscle. It’s still common to hear bodybuilders talk about needing glycogen from carbs to spike insulin and create an anabolic response, which helps you build muscle.

The truth is, bodybuilding on a low-carb diet is completely viable when done correctly.

Studies have shown that following a strength training regimen along with a ketogenic diet can increase lean muscle mass without excess weight gain[*][*][*].

But it doesn’t happen overnight. Quite the opposite, in fact. Because you have to switch from using glucose (carbs) as fuel to using fat as fuel. This is called the “keto-adaptation” phase and it takes time. About one to four weeks when your workouts can suffer from a decrease in performance.

Why Your Strength May Suffer During Keto-Adaptation

When you are in the beginning phase of the ketogenic diet, you may not be able to exercise with the same intensity you did with carbs. This is because your body is switching from breaking down glucose for energy (glycolysis) to breaking down fat into ketones.

To successfully build muscle on the ketogenic diet, you have to follow the diet long-term.

Since your body is used to burning glucose (from carbohydrates) as its main source of energy your entire life, it needs time to adjust.

When you restrict carbohydrates, it has to find another source of energy. This is when ketones are introduced as your body’s main energy source.

The longer you stay on keto, the more efficient your metabolism becomes at burning ketones for energy and the better your workouts become.

So by training your body to run off ketones from fat, it improves your mitochondrial density. This allows you to train faster and longer.

In other words, once you become fully keto-adapted, your body synthesizes more energy, also known as adenosine triphosphate (ATP), from both your stored body fat and dietary fat to fuel your workouts.

Studies have also shown that the low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet has muscle sparing effects. That means — once you’re fully fat-adapted— your body will prevent itself from breaking down muscle even as you’re burning through fat[*].

You Need to Eat More Protein (And Not Be Afraid of Gluconeogenesis)

One of the biggest concerns with building muscle on the ketogenic diet is that high protein consumption will kick you out of ketosis.

There is a process called gluconeogenesis where your body turns excess protein into glucose in your bloodstream. And it’s true that the presence of glucose will stop you from producing ketones.

But what many people forget to take into account is that your body and brain need glucose to survive. Even when you’re on a ketogenic diet, you want some glucose to feed specialized cells (particularly brain cells) that can only run on glucose. You even make glucose out of fat — fatty acids have a glycerol backbone that you convert into glucose[*].

So why do we do keto if we need glucose?

While we may need glucose to live, we don’t need near as much as the population consumes.

Currently, people are over-indulging on carbohydrates which are causing insulin resistance and hindering your body from burning stored body fat for energy. This leads to unwarranted fat gain, chronic high blood sugar, insulin resistance, and systemic inflammation.

When ketogenic dieting, you are providing your body with just enough glucose (from fats and proteins) it needs to survive. Running off ketones gives you a more efficient energy source and allows you to build muscle through protein synthesis without worrying about gaining excess body fat.

How Much Protein Should You Consume?

Protein intake eat differs depending on your activity level.

Here are the general guidelines for protein consumption on the ketogenic diet[*][*]:

•Sedentary: .8g of protein per pound of lean body mass (total weight – body fat % * .8)
•Not much exercise: 1g of protein per kg body weight
•Moderate exercise: 1.3 g / protein per kg body weight
•Heavy exercise: 1.6g of protein per kg body weight

It’s common for people on the ketogenic diet to consume less than is needed to build muscle. Probably because the keto diet increases satiety. In other words, you don’t eat as much when you’re simply not hungry.

Want to gain more muscle on keto? Get more calories.

Eat More Calories to Gain More Muscle

Tracking your calories is the fastest way to reach your muscle building or weight loss goals.

For muscle growth on keto:
•Consume 150 – 500 extra calories above your normal maintenance calories
•Consume around 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass at a minimum
•The rest of your calories should come from healthy fats

Building muscle is a matter of consuming more calories than your body burns daily. Eating at a caloric surplus in addition to adequate protein levels will help you achieve the muscular physique you’ve been working towards.

Use this handy keto macro calculator to help you find out how much of each macronutrient you should be eating to build muscle based on your own individual metrics.

The Targeted Ketogenic Diet Approach for Bodybuilders

A targeted ketogenic diet (TKD) encourages up to 20-50g of carbohydrates immediately before or after your training session. And yes, that’s your entire carb allotment for the day.

This allows your body to use that quick glucose to amplify your workouts. When done properly, your body burns through those carbs quickly and you’ll pop right back into ketosis.

A TKD approach works for people who have already followed the ketogenic diet for at least a month.

And it usually works better for people who perform really hardcore workouts.

But in general, the amount of carbs you’ll consume is based on the intensity of your workout.

Here’s an estimate of how many carbs you should consume based on activity:
•People who do high-intensity training like Crossfit can consume 50g of carbs a day
•Competitive athletes can consume up to 100g of carbs a day
•An average person who exercises four to five times a week can get by with fewer than 20g of carbs a day

If you are just a beginner with the ketogenic diet and your main goal is weight loss, don’t try the TKD approach.

Instead, you should consider following a standard ketogenic diet meal plan while focusing on other performance-enhancing factors, like eating enough protein.

Pay Close Attention to Your Electrolyte Consumption

Maintaining proper electrolyte levels is imperative for optimal athletic performance[*].

The main electrolytes you should always monitor include sodium, potassium, and magnesium. These are the top three electrolytes you’re likely to lose through sweat and urine.

It’s crucial to refuel your body with keto-friendly, nutrient-dense foods to ensure your body is performing at its best during your workouts.

Ketogenic-friendly, magnesium-rich foods include:

Keto bodybuilding

Ketogenic-friendly, potassium-rich foods include:

Keto bodybuilding

You can also supplement with Keto Electrolytes if you are prone to electrolyte deficiencies or you just want a quick and easy option.

Sodium Intake Must Increase on the Ketogenic Diet

One of the biggest mistakes people make when restricting carbohydrates is a lack of sodium intake.

When you restrict carbs, your body excretes more electrolytes than usual. Especially during the first few weeks of keto-adaptation and especially sodium[*].

If you’re bonking at the gym while on the keto diet, try, increasing your sodium intake, especially before your workouts.

Sodium is required for healthy muscles, nerve activity, and helps regulate muscle contraction, nerve function, and blood volume.

Both the ketogenic diet and exercise contribute to the loss of water and electrolytes.

If you’re not consuming enough, you may fall into the dreaded keto flu.

The minimum you should consume is 5,000mg to 7,000mg of sodium daily. Before your training, make sure to take 1,000mg to 2,000mg to improve performance.

Sodium consumption doesn’t increase depending on your weight loss or muscle building goals. Instead, focus on increasing sodium if you are sweating more frequently or if you have just started the ketogenic diet.

Tip: Adding sodium to your water in the morning or before your workout can drastically help with your training. If you feel that you are getting tired fast in the gym, you’ll find that including more salt will help you last longer during your workouts and need less rest between sets.

What Type of Sodium Should You Use?

Where you get your salt doesn’t matter as much as the amount you’re consuming.

The best course of action is to use a mixture of:
•Himalayan sea salt
•Mortons lite salt

This mixture will give you enough sodium to fuel your workouts along with potassium from Mortons lite salt to help you hydrate.

How to Properly Fuel Your Workouts

Aside from maintaining balanced electrolytes, some people may still feel a slight decrease in performance after restricting carbohydrates, especially athletes.

If your workouts are suffering and you need an extra boost, here’s a great ketone-boosting pre-workout shake:
•20-30g of high-quality whey isolate or beef protein
•5-15g of Keto Collagen
•1-2g of sodium
•5g of creatine, if needed
•Pour into coffee and blend
•Consume 20-30 minutes before training

Here’s why this drink works:
•The amino acids in protein help build muscle
•The MCT oil powder gives you an immediate energy source from fats
•The sodium will help you last longer during your workouts
•Creatine increases short-term strength[*]
•Both the fats and protein will raise insulin just enough to put your body in an anabolic state (muscle building)

Sugar-Free Electrolyte Drink

Many keto diet bodybuilders like to sip on an electrolyte drink throughout the day. This should be sugar-free and include sodium, potassium, and magnesium.

Be careful not to consume any drinks that are high in sugar such as Gatorade as it will kick you out of ketosis.

Tips For Building Muscle On Keto

You’ve learned plenty in this ultimate guide to building muscle on keto.

How can you put it all together? Get leaner, stronger, and healthier?

Here are some actionable tips:

#1 Reduce Carbs

Recall that carbs don’t matter for building muscle. In fact, they seem to hinder it.

Here’s what you do. Load up the Perfect Keto Calculator, input your diet, and take note of your daily carb intake.

If more than 15-20% of your calories are carbs, you’re probably not in ketosis. You’re probably not helping your muscles either.

Not to worry. Just swap out carbs for healthy fats (like MCT oil and nut butter) and healthy proteins (like grass fed whey protein). Then recalculate your ratios and smile.

#2 Eat Enough Protein

It’s possible to go keto, yet still be short on protein. Without plenty of leucine in your blood, you can’t synthesize muscle like a champ.

Fortunately, it’s easy to dial up your protein intake:
•Eat more meat, fish, and eggs
•Include grass fed whey protein powder or collagen protein powder in your smoothie
•If you’re vegan, and can’t eat high-quality whey protein, consider hemp or pea protein
•Choose high protein, keto-friendly snacks like Perfect Keto Bars

And of course, crunch those numbers to ensure you’re eating enough protein every day.

#3 Strength Train

NetFlix marathons, however blissful, won’t advance your muscle building goals. Nope. You have to put in the work.

But it needn’t feel like work. Resistance exercise — a proven mood-booster[*] — can be tons of fun.

Here are some fun muscle building workouts:
•Heavy, compound lifts like pull-ups, squats, bench press, and deadlifts
•Yoga or pilates
•Bodyweight exercises like push ups, planks, and bodyweight squats
•Sprinting — increases anabolic hormones like testosterone[*]

The list goes on — so pick one or two, and get stronger.

# 4 Supplement Creatine

Remember glycogen? It’s your storage form of glucose, stored mostly in muscle cells.

Low carb keto diets, however, don’t exactly optimize for glycogen in serious athletes. In fact: if you’re constantly depleting your muscle glycogen with hard workouts, you might want to step up your supplement game.

Enter creatine. Creatine helps you synthesize and maintain glycogen stores — and probably should be taken by any keto-adapted athlete.

In addition to glycogen enhancement, creatine — a safe and natural compound[*] — also helps:
•Build strength and muscle[*]
•Prevent age-related muscle loss[*]
•Increase explosive power[*]
•Boost cognitive performance[*]

How should you take creatine? Your best bet is creatine monohydrate — the cheapest, most-researched, and most widely-available form of this supplement.

One example is Perfect Keto Perform — which contains, in addition to creatine monohydrate, several other performance-boosting compounds. Happy supplementing.

What Not to Do When Bodybuilding on the Ketogenic Diet

There are several misconceptions that people fall prey to when exercising on the low-carb, high-fat lifestyle.

The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet

One common belief is that loading up on carbs once or twice a week is required when you’re first starting out. This is also known as the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD).

While CKD may help you gain muscle, it’s better to experiment with it once you’re more experienced on the keto diet.

When you’re new to the ketogenic diet, following a CKD approach will be counterproductive.

If you’re a beginner to keto, your body is still used to burning carbohydrates as its main energy source. By carb loading every week, you’ll slow down your progress.

Your body needs time to adjust to using ketones efficiently.

It can take up to a week or more before your body gets used to burning fats as energy.

This is what happens when you eat carbs every weekend when you’re not fat-adapted:
•On average, it’ll take two to three days to get into ketosis after you cut carbs out
•Once Saturday comes around and you carb load, you’re no longer in ketosis
•Then, your body has to reset the cycle of depleting the carbs from the liver to start generating ketones

This cycle in conjunction with the ketogenic transition phase means you’ll only be in a state of ketosis for one to two days out of the week.

Someone who is new to keto should be on the low-carb, high-fat diet for at least a month before considering a CKD. After a month, most people can even get by with carb backloading every 15 days to once a month rather than every week.

It’s also common for people to take the wrong approach when following a CKD.

One of the main reasons why people adopt a cyclical ketogenic diet is because they assume they can eat whatever they want — from pizza to Oreos — without worrying about ruining their diet.

This is a common misconception.

A proper carb load for bodybuilding requires very low fat consumption and high carb intake for one to two days of the week. Junk food like pizza is high in fat and carbohydrates.

A CKD isn’t a free pass to eating whatever you want!

It’s not the tastiest diet and requires a lot more discipline having to eat meals like chicken breast and rice for the whole day.

Instead, you should start out on a standard ketogenic diet.

Ketosis has muscle sparing benefits, but only if you’re keto-adapted[*]. When you’re first starting out, you may lose a small amount of lean mass. This is because your body wants glucose since it doesn’t know how to use ketones for fuel yet, so it takes some glucose from amino acids via your muscles.

When you start out with a CKD, you’ll constantly take small amounts of amino acids from your muscles and you’ll teeter in and out of ketosis so you never fully become keto-adapted.

Avoid CKD, carb backloading, and junk food — at least for the first month or so of keto.

Constant Cheat Days

Having a cheat meal every once in a while is perfectly acceptable. Most of us like to use cheat days to take a break and binge on junk food so you can come back into the diet rejuvenated.

But many people make the mistake of overindulging on unhealthy food when they have a cheat day. Just because you had a piece of chocolate cake does not mean you should eat the whole thing.

Instead, allow yourself to have a cheat meal here and there depending on how far you are from your goals.

For example, if you have 100lbs to lose, the more cheat meals you have, the longer it’ll take to reach your weight loss goal.

Conversely, if you are already close to your desired weight and you’re on the ketogenic diet to feel good and maintain stable energy systems, you can get by with more frequent cheat meals.

Fasted Training

There’s a common misconception that training in a fasted state will help you burn more fat.

This is a misunderstanding and can be counterproductive toward your fat loss goals. Your body needs energy and doesn’t burn fat exclusively.

When you train fasted, you may lose fat but you may also burning lean body muscle mass.

If you’re doing crazy intense workouts, animal protein like beef protein along with MCT Oil Powder will provide you with more energy for a better workout to help burn fat without losing any muscle.

You may lose weight training fasted, but may also lose lean body mass in the long term.

Focus On Ketones Only

Just because you’re producing ketones doesn’t mean you’re losing weight. Overeating will hurt your training efforts and physical goals like fat loss and muscle gain.

Instead of focusing on ketone production, you should prioritize lean tissue growth. Invest in building lean mass with adequate protein and fat, but keep your eyes on your caloric intake and your overall body composition, not just the level of ketones in your blood.

The goal is to lose body fat and improve body composition as a whole, not just body weight overall.

Why Making Ketones is Not Always the Same as Using Ketones

People often confuse having high ketone levels with being in a fat burning mode. This isn’t always true, especially as a beginner.

Some factors that contribute to ketone production include:
•Dietary fat intake
•Amount of body fat you have
•Frequency of exercise

Having higher ketone levels doesn’t mean you’re losing fat.

Ketones are a source of energy and when you first start, it’s normal to have higher ketone levels. This is because your body isn’t fully adapted to using ketones for energy yet so ketones stay circulating in your blood or get excreted rather than used as fuel.

If you’re consuming enough nutrient-dense calories and you already have low body fat, your ketone production is going to be on the lower end.

There is no build-up of ketones because your body is actually using it as its main source of energy.

The longer you stay on the ketogenic diet, the more effective your body becomes in using ketones as energy. It’s common for more experienced keto dieters to see lower levels of ketones through ketone strips.

This shouldn’t discourage you whatsoever because your body is using ketones for energy more efficiently (instead of peeing it out).

It’s normal to be in the .6 – .8 mmol range of ketones once you are fully keto-adapted.

Note: If your goal is to lose weight and you still have a high body fat percentage, you should focus more on staying low carb rather than eating large amounts of fat. This shift allows your body to use its own fat storages for energy, which leads to increased fat loss.

Bodybuilding on the Ketogenic Diet Will Help You Build Muscle While Minimizing Fat Gain

The majority of the bodybuilding industry praises the low-fat, high-carbohydrate protocol for gaining muscle. Mostly because that’s been the status quo for so long.

But more recent science supports the idea that you don’t need carbohydrates to build muscle.

Following the strategies above will ensure that you minimize the time it takes for your body to become keto-adapted.

Bodybuilding on the ketogenic diet will allow you to build muscle while keeping fat to a minimum.

As long as you are carefully monitoring your electrolyte levels, measuring your body composition instead of ketones, and eating adequate amounts of protein, you will begin to see vast improvements in your overall physique.


Active member
Dec 27, 2011
Concreter was my inspiration for this primo post, who I learned from in the beginning from all his posts, keep up the good work & everyone else I researched. Pesty4077 and Elvia1023 you both look phenomenal. Thanks for comments and wisdom. Believe it or not, have read the primo files from beg to end around 5 times, good info there. I like higher test too, but I can't go too high, blood pressure goes from 120 up to 140 when too high, but that's just me. Adjusting arimidex upwards helps with this as it goes higher. D-ball is great too, but a little raise in BP as well. Anavar wires me too much, so can't dream of.


Active member
Dec 27, 2011
Studies have also shown that the low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet has muscle sparing effects. That means — once you’re fully fat-adapted— your body will prevent itself from breaking down muscle even as you’re burning through fat.

Good book: "The Keto Reset Diet: Reboot Your Metabolism in 21 Days and Burn Fat Forever" Hardcover – October 3, 2017 by Mark Sisson, and also check out the ketogains website started by the bodybuilder Luis Villasenor (from South America) he has been keto for 17 years, and he looks amazing.

How to Build Muscle on the Ketogenic Diet: An Interview with Luis Villaseñor of Ketogains

Can you build muscle mass on a ketogenic diet? Luis Villaseñor’s results speak for themselves.




Active member
Dec 27, 2011
Update: Took Eliva1023's advice, and am no longer the biggest fan of primo due to high cost and been on high dose test cycle for 8 weeks instead, much cheaper and very impressed at 3rd week in. Took some measures (explained below) to lower BP from 140 down to 120-125 so no longer afraid of the high dose test, as my BP would always shoot up from normal 120-125 on 210mg TRT a week to 140 whenever I would try higher dose test.

Got off the 700mg a week primo cycle and switched to 525mg a week test for several weeks now, loving it. Pin 75mg a day test cyp (love to back-fill an insulin syringe, painless and hassle free injection, or just fill a 28g insulin syringe normal way) along with 0.50mg arimidex at each daily shot. This is keeping my E2 between 30 and 40, also pleased with that. With 200mg of test TRT per week, I was using 65mg EOD shot with 0.65mg arimidex at each EOD shot to keep my E2 at exactly 25. Blood pressure doing well by using all the BP lowering supplements listed further below, pleased with that. I think it helps BP with the daily shot as peak is kept lower than an even an every other day shot.

Alternative joint lubrication (deca, primo, etc. not needed):

Saw a couple people on another thread mention that they had to have some deca in there or something similar to keep their joints lubricated. MK677 at 25 mg a morning keeps my joints very lubricated on high dose test. Used to have some joint issues while on TRT before adding in the mk677, but not a single joint issue since adding in mk. Have read others report similar findings with the mk and joint relief, just thought would mention.

HGH has also been found to accelerate collagen synthesis, just like mk677.

I use the 25mg mk677 in the am x 7 months out of the year. I use nothing at all or overseas pharm grade HGH at 4iu (brings my igf-1 to 380) on the time I am off mk677. The mk677 raises my baseline igf-1 from 227 to 327 at 4 weeks in, around same at 6 months in (322 ng/ml). I then take 5 months off it and repeat, as studies show levels start to fall from the peak after 6 to 7 months on it. The mk677 is the equivalent of 3.4iu hgh for me personally.

Great paper on the power of 600mg test a week (one of the best studies every produced):https://andersnedergaard.dk/en/kropblog/the-big-lie/

10 week study:

England Journal of Medicine, describing a study that would forever change the view on anabolic steroids (Bhasin et al, 1996). Essentially the study was a double cross-over study in which 43 young healthy normal weight men, were put on standardized diets and then into one of four intervention groups:

No exercise, placebo
No exercise, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly
Resistance exercise 3 times/week, placebo
Resistance exercise 3 times/week, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly

for a period of 10 weeks. For reference, the recommended prescribed dose of testosterone for replacement therapy is 250 mg every 2 to three weeks. So 600 mg/week is preeeeetty supraphysiological, but still well below what is used in lifting circles, even for beginners. Naturally, these guys grew muscle and got leaner, but how much? Bhasin reported that the changes in fat-free mass were as follows, per group:

+0.8 kg
+3.2 kg
+2.0 kg
+6.1 kg (13.4 lbs lean mass in 10 weeks)

20 week study:

with 600 mg/week the subjects grew 7-9 kgs (16 to 20lbs) of muscle (!) and lost 1-2 kgs (5 lbs) of fat (check the table below)! That is again, without any exercise!!
Here are several pictures of Swiper (page 3) who used/uses test only in the "not impressed with tren topic" from Swiper:

Lowered blood pressure significantly while on high dose 525mg a week test cycle:

Was able to lower my blood pressure while taking high dose testosterone (525mg a week) at 75mg a day using 28g insulin syringe with 1/2 mg arimidex (lowered arimidex dose recently) at each daily shot by using the following supplements below which brought my sistolic blood pressure (the 1st number) down over 15 points, back from 140 down to between 120 to 125 (which is my normal BP when on lower dose TRT at 210mg a week):

p.s I use more arimidex than most people as I aromatize test at a higher level than most. I get bloods tested for E2 and test (around $79 to test both together on-line then go to nearest Labcore) to make sure I am within 22 to 40 range when doing this cycle.

Body water only increased from 59.0 to 59.2 total (around 1/2 lb), on a Palumbo keto diet year round when I upped the test dosage from TRT of 210mg a week to 525mg a week cycle with 1.2 to 1.5g protein per lb of bodyweight with 0.5g fats per lb bodyweight. I was able to go from 15% bodyfat down to 12% bodyfat in only a few months on this diet with fasting after 2:30pm (would drink a 50 to 60g met-rx shake at 2:30 as last meal with 1 tablespoon no-carb heavey whipping cream in water and ice with met-rx). I would also run 15 minutes during the fasting period around 4:30pm or later.

I use the thirty dollar RENPHO electronic scale to track bodyfat by 0.1%, and 7 other body readings, has over 7000 reviews.

* The antihypertensive effect of arginine:
I would take around 6g 1st thing in the morning of L-arginine. I also prefer
the L-arg + L-ornithine combo as it also is great pre-workout for a large boost in GH and igf-1 which last for several hours, notice the increase in igf-1 from 400 ng/ml to 600 ng/ml when used pre-workout, GH increases nearly 1.5 fold. (see chart on page 1085):

I always take 6 caps of the L-arg/L-orn sports combo (3g arg + 1.5g ornithine) pre-workout, and have been since my early 20's to increase GH and IGF-1 by several fold while working out, my age now is 49. As mentioned before, I use MK677 daily for 7 months of the year as well, with 5 months off. This brings my baseline igf-1 of 227 to 327 after 4 weeks, reads 322 after 6 months on. Levels start to decrease from peak at 6 to 7 months in, which is when I go off the mk677 and take a 5 month break, then repeat. Levels read the around the same but slightly higher on 2nd year of use as compared to 1st year of use.


"Arginine and Ornithine Supplementation Increases Growth Hormone and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 Serum Levels After Heavy-Resistance Exercise in Strength-trained Athletes." 2010 National Strength and Conditioning Association.

* Garlic extract (500-900mg)
Been using 2 Garlique capsules from walmart which contains 10mg of allicin total (the active ingredient for lowering blood pressure), take two 1st thing in the am. Garlic has been shown to lower systolic BP by 12mm! and diastolic BP by 6mm. Take 1 more cap in afternoon.

* Beet root extract (less than ten dollars for a bottle of the extract) lowers blood pressure: Beetroot juice has been investigated for the powerful effect of its nitrate content on blood pressure. ... The researchers found that "Inorganic nitrate and beetroot juice supplementation was associated with a significant reduction in systolic blood pressure." I take 1 capsule in the am, and again the afternoon. Mulitude of reviews from others who claim
it lowered the BP by 10 points or more.

* Celery seed extract, Celery Seed Extract: A Natural Calcium Channel Blocker:
A human study demonstrating the effectiveness of a celery seed extract standardized to 85% 3nB recently appeared in the Natural Medicine Journal.9 For the study, 30 middle-aged patients with mild-to-moderate hypertension took 75 mg doses of a celery seed extract twice daily for six weeks. To obtain an equivalent amount of 3nB, one would have to consume approximately 530 stalks (nearly 50 pounds) of celery.

Mean blood pressures at baseline were 139.4/85.4 mm Hg. At three weeks, they fell to 134.8/80.9, and at six weeks they fell to 131.2/76.9. This represents total drops of 8.2 mm Hg systolic and 8.5 diastolic from baseline:


There is also Carditone which lowers BP by quite a bit, but may have some tranquilizing side effects which some people claim...which goes away after days possibly, have not used it myself. The supplements above work fine for me without the carditone.

Anyhow, peace out, hope this will help others who get higher BP when test is raised for a short 8 week cycle or so.


Well-known member
Nov 19, 2016
First hand experience with PRIMO. Gains were very mild. Absolutely crashed my HDL and ESTROGEN. Joints were achy and I was tired...I assume it was due to it completely knocking out all estrogen from my system. No other sides. Gains, meh. Maybe a 1-2 solid pounds. Overall I would say it is not worth the risk/reward.

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