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Thoughts on “testosterone enhancement therapy” trend?

BoredStiff

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I guess over the past two years (maybe?) it seems like a lot of clinics are putting guys on closer to 300mg of test, 200 test/100 Deca etc. and aiming for this 1200-1500ng/dL number.

I’m curious if anyone knows where this 1200-1500 ng/dL level came from. Were there actual studies finding that being slightly over range provided some sort of performance or well-being benefit? Or was this just one of those things that one doctor said and it just spread?

I’m just skeptical that 300mg of test is going to provide any noticeable result over 150mg per week Physique wise, it’s not that big of a jump. Maybe cognitive/sexual benefit? But I’d like to hear from people actually doing it or in the know.
 

bad rad

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The range has been repeatedly lowered throughout the last decade. My earliest blood work the range topped out around 1200ng/dL. I've been on TRT for well over 10 years. I personally have similar results from 140-200mg (600-800ng/dL) weekly but even 280mg (1400ng/dL) is a huge improvement in strength, body composition, etc.
 

j4ever

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if i go from my trt dose 120mg per week, to 300 i will notice a fairly significant difference, but it just will increase problems such as estro and h&h, but what i call problems a guru calls benefit, but more is not always better for the feeling of well being.
 

thethinker48

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It would depend on your individual hormone metabolism

300 mgs can be a mini cycle for a lot of guys

I will say that a lot of TRT clinics might market "longevity", but they are doing the furthest thing from that when it comes to their prescriptions. If you want to live longer, elevated growth factors like Mtor and IGF are not what's to be aimed for. There's discourse between a lot of researchers on the evolutionary reasoning behind why our endocrine system slows down with age as well.

For performance? Sure
 

NEMSZ

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The range has been repeatedly lowered throughout the last decade. My earliest blood work the range topped out around 1200ng/dL. I've been on TRT for well over 10 years. I personally have similar results from 140-200mg (600-800ng/dL) weekly but even 280mg (1400ng/dL) is a huge improvement in strength, body composition, etc.
I was going to say this as well... For whatever reason, as years have gone by they keep lowering the higher range of Test... Even between different labs it’s higher... When I get tested by Quest for my TRT doc the high range is 850ng but when it’s Labcorp for the GP (he does my test levels as well) the high range is around 1100ng... Why such a drastic difference between 2 labs? I have no idea..

My TRT doc is also super conservative and wants me around 500-600ng but I still feel kinda sluggish but I feel a noticeable difference positively when I go up to around 950ng-1100ng.. And as to blood work nothing changes negatively...

I’ve even read that a few decades ago that some men naturally had testosterone levels in the 1400ng range... Why was it safe to be in that range 50 years ago but now it wouldn’t be? I’m not sure but would be cool if someone could answer lol
 

Reno911

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I'd be curious to here of anyone running "blended TRT". I won't mention the guys name who used to promote it because he's an idiot and in jail but the idea of "blended TRT" seemed interesting to me.

I believe it was/is something like the below:
130mg Test E5D
100mg Deca E7D
12.5mg Proviron ED
 

USMuscle9403

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Even running exogenous test by itself will give different effects than only using what you already have. Your bloods will likely look different, hematocrit, cholesterol ratio, etc. Not the best thing for longevity, honestly. But hey, probably still better than what we might do to our body, otherwise.

Edit this is all totally individual, obviously.
 

opietaylor

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300mg vs. 150mg no difference? you must have a poor response to hormones/metabolize them quickly.
 

Knight9

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What is the male equivalent name for a 'Karen'?

If you don't understand that 300mg would be more noticeable than 150mg in performance and physique...we cannot help you.
 

Flex500

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Yeah I don't know man my "base" dose is 105mgs/week which puts me anywhere from 500-700 total test. If I bump up to 250-300mgs it's a straight up cycle and an enormous physique and strength difference. On legit and precisely dosed test 300mgs/week will put me right around 1300-1500. Hell I'm expecting to see large performance benefits going from 105mgs to 160mgs the next 10 weeks.

Overall the trend seems to be lowering the dose and focusing on lower total test, higher free test. The guys doing the "enhanced dose" are literally promoting low dosed cycles. That's ok if that is what folks are looking for, however, I do think we need to be careful not to promote that being on 250-300mgs+ perpetually is healthy long-term because for most it just won't be and there would be great benefit to dropping to a lower dose.

As far as your question on the difference of 150mgs to 300 most will notice an incredibly large difference unless they are accustomed to being on higher doses. For example, if someone is on 500mgs + most of the year and drops to 150mgs for 4 weeks then to 300mgs they may not feel a huge difference because they are accustomed to being on large doses. As noted above for guys like me that spend 3-6 months a year on ~100mgs/week you will notice an insane difference just bumping to 200mgs.
 

KillerStack

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Going from 150-300mg will be a big difference. Otoh going from 1000-2000mg might not do anything positive. It's at the lower range that any increase can really be felt.
This is just common sense as there is a drastic drop off in benefits after a certain range.
 

LK3

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I'd be curious to here of anyone running "blended TRT". I won't mention the guys name who used to promote it because he's an idiot and in jail but the idea of "blended TRT" seemed interesting to me.

I believe it was/is something like the below:
130mg Test E5D
100mg Deca E7D
12.5mg Proviron ED

no dude thats in reverse.

was test highest followed by dht like wini and then small amts of nan. from a gyno in canada.

i have been playing with this with test, mast and npp. so far i found best at about 150 test 100-150 mast and about 50mgs of npp. weekly doses but admin ed.

playing with this still
 

TheOtherOne55

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100% agree.

Let's be real here. No one is adding Deca, Mast or Primo to their TRT cycle to "enhance well being.''
They're adding it on there because they mentally can't come off and/or have convinced themselves that anything in the regular TRT range will cause them to "lose their gains." Its that simple. Lets stop pretending this is for anything other than keeping muscle mass.

IMO, unless you can walk around at 290lbs in your offseason, you don't need a higher dose of TRT or an addition compound. But for the average gym bro, 150 test is it.




Yeah I don't know man my "base" dose is 105mgs/week which puts me anywhere from 500-700 total test. If I bump up to 250-300mgs it's a straight up cycle and an enormous physique and strength difference. On legit and precisely dosed test 300mgs/week will put me right around 1300-1500. Hell I'm expecting to see large performance benefits going from 105mgs to 160mgs the next 10 weeks.

Overall the trend seems to be lowering the dose and focusing on lower total test, higher free test. The guys doing the "enhanced dose" are literally promoting low dosed cycles. That's ok if that is what folks are looking for, however, I do think we need to be careful not to promote that being on 250-300mgs+ perpetually is healthy long-term because for most it just won't be and there would be great benefit to dropping to a lower dose.

As far as your question on the difference of 150mgs to 300 most will notice an incredibly large difference unless they are accustomed to being on higher doses. For example, if someone is on 500mgs + most of the year and drops to 150mgs for 4 weeks then to 300mgs they may not feel a huge difference because they are accustomed to being on large doses. As noted above for guys like me that spend 3-6 months a year on ~100mgs/week you will notice an insane difference just bumping to 200mgs.
 

bad rad

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I haven't tried it but I can see the benefit of adding very low dose 19-Nor/DHT derivative compounds. I'm talking under 200mg everything combined. I have a lot of joint damage/pain that narcs can't control at times but Deca does help. I've never tried it less than 200mgs though. Others speak of adding low Masteron doses but that's normally related to holding condition or libido enhancement.
 

warlock

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no dude thats in reverse.

was test highest followed by dht like wini and then small amts of nan. from a gyno in canada.

i have been playing with this with test, mast and npp. so far i found best at about 150 test 100-150 mast and about 50mgs of npp. weekly doses but admin ed.

playing with this still
How do you feel and look on this stack? Any idea of what your labs look like?
 

Newkidontheblock

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I’ve definitely been feeling better by doing the 200mg test, 100mg deca, 50mg prov.
really great sense of well being. Doc was saying i could do up to 300 of deca.... clearly not for longevity 😂. You take more, they make more.
 

xpoc

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I’ve even read that a few decades ago that some men naturally had testosterone levels in the 1400ng range... Why was it safe to be in that range 50 years ago but now it wouldn’t be? I’m not sure but would be cool if someone could answer lol
I question this. I have read it "somewhere" too but it wasn't backed by science. I am 50+ and I remember my dad and all his friends. They were products of the WWII and Korean war eras. They ate shit, all chain smoked and drank. They ate fried food, TV dinners, spam, and all kinds of crap. Most of them in their 40's and 50's had pot bellys and many (like my father) died before the age of 60. Keep in mind, for the most part people did not work out 50 years ago. I simply cannot imagine that the men from my dads era had higher test levels than those of us today in his age range who regularly workout, understand nutrition, and maintain a much healthier lifestyle. But, hats off to those guys because they were badasses who battled Nazis, Imperial Japan, and won wars. #Merica!
 

alfresco

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The range has been repeatedly lowered throughout the last decade. My earliest blood work the range topped out around 1200ng/dL. I've been on TRT for well over 10 years. I personally have similar results from 140-200mg (600-800ng/dL) weekly but even 280mg (1400ng/dL) is a huge improvement in strength, body composition, etc.
Yes, the range has been lowered over time. Why? I have no clue.

Been on TRT for 15 years.

The highest my test ever got was 1400ng/dL on 600mg every 10 days. Zero sides . . . for a while.
 

nidnoy

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Yes, the range has been lowered over time. Why? I have no clue.

Been on TRT for 15 years.

The highest my test ever got was 1400ng/dL on 600mg every 10 days. Zero sides . . . for a while.

What happened? That equates to about 420 mgs per week which is pretty high dose for long term. I am sure hemo went up, lipids out of whack, maybe blood pressure increase? Just curious because the total mgs of some of the enhanced trt creep up to 400 mg or so. Even if actual mgs of compounds are low the combined total being high adds up, to I believe at least.

Thanks for the post!
 

NEMSZ

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I question this. I have read it "somewhere" too but it wasn't backed by science. I am 50+ and I remember my dad and all his friends. They were products of the WWII and Korean war eras. They ate shit, all chain smoked and drank. They ate fried food, TV dinners, spam, and all kinds of crap. Most of them in their 40's and 50's had pot bellys and many (like my father) died before the age of 60. Keep in mind, for the most part people did not work out 50 years ago. I simply cannot imagine that the men from my dads era had higher test levels than those of us today in his age range who regularly workout, understand nutrition, and maintain a much healthier lifestyle. But, hats off to those guys because they were badasses who battled Nazis, Imperial Japan, and won wars. #Merica!
Completely understand your point of view and I had family in Europe during WW2 as well and some who fought in the Spanish civil war.. Id agree with you on almost everything except the fact that there were no TV dinners and processed foods back then lol at least not widely popular until about the 80’s or so here in the states, definitely not in Europe where my family is from, as for the Americans of that era, they might not have eaten a clean diet for the most part but it was largely unprocessed natural sources of food until just a couple decades ago..

Although I can’t speak much about Americans from that era as I’m a first generation American, my entire family is from Europe, and my great grandparents all lived into their early and late 90’s respectively, no real health issues to speak of and very active even at that age walking around town, still doing work on their farms etc..

A little off the subject but A LOT of the chemicals and processed foods we have today in the US are banned and even illegal in some countries in the EU and Asia, Singapore I believe gives a 15 year prison sentence for some of those chemicals we eat here every day.. Makes you wonder, and I’d even bet that it does have an effect on Testosterone levels as we obviously know it has effects on health overall...
 

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