Thyroid bloodwork while on T4 and GH

[GoneForever]

Been on GH for like 3years now. Usually cruise around 2iu's ED and go to around 3-4 while dieting and 6 while bulking. Got bloodwork done numerous times while on GH and my thyroid has always come back normal in all ranges. This time around im doing the 12iu 3x per week blast method and decided to use some T4 since everyone says its got such great beneifts while on GH. IM bulking so i've only been on 100mcg daily. Been about 10weeks so far. Here is my results.

TSH (1.37) range .350-5.500

T4 (5.2) range 4.5-12.0

T3 Uptake (45) range 24-39

Free Thyroxine Index (2.3) range 1.2-4.9

Kinda weird T3 is high, oh well, not sure why.

 

[JohnnyPro]

maybe because t4 converts to t3. But I'm probably wrong.

 

[Chrisd29]

Which Thyroid med are you taking

DO you take Cytomel, or a Synthroid or Levoxyl type? The Cytomel is a T3 and the others are T4 which does convert to T3 of course, but that might account for those levels.

 

[GoneForever]

100mcg T4

 

[Rob Roy]

Gotta agree with johnyPro

 

[sammarbella]

Been on GH for like 3years now. Usually cruise around 2iu's ED and go to around 3-4 while dieting and 6 while bulking. Got bloodwork done numerous times while on GH and my thyroid has always come back normal in all ranges. This time around im doing the 12iu 3x per week blast method and decided to use some T4 since everyone says its got such great beneifts while on GH. IM bulking so i've only been on 100mcg daily. Been about 10weeks so far. Here is my results.

TSH (1.37) range .350-5.500

T4 (5.2) range 4.5-12.0

T3 Uptake (45) range 24-39

Free Thyroxine Index (2.3) range 1.2-4.9

Kinda weird T3 is high, oh well, not sure why.

Thanks for share...

Do you have a previous Thyroid bloodwork to compare and know if T4 is doing something?

Maybe T3 is high simply because your high calorie intake from your bulking and not cause your T4 intake.

If we can compare previous and after when the only different factor (added factor) is T4 maybe we can have a conclusion.

There is a long lasting debate about T4 effectiviness during HGH cycles.

Real life data will be great.

 

[Down]

I read that GH increases the conversion rate of T4 to T3.

 

[GoneForever]

Here is from 10/06/06 I'd say I was on about 4iu's EOD at that time and no thyroid meds

TSH 2.356 range .350-5.500
T4 6.0 range 4.5-12.0
T3 36 range 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 2.2 range 1.2-4.9


This is from Jan 05 about 1.5months after I strated GH for my very first time with no thyroid meds. Was on 4iu's 5days on/2off. Diff lab so values are diff

TSH 1.776 range .350-5.500
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 3.8 range 2.3-4.2
T4,free(direct) .95 range .61-1.76

 

[sammarbella]

Here is from 10/06/06 I'd say I was on about 4iu's EOD at that time and no thyroid meds

TSH 2.356 range .350-5.500
T4 6.0 range 4.5-12.0
T3 36 range 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 2.2 range 1.2-4.9

Been about 10weeks so far(on exo T4 100 mcgs ED). Here is my results.

TSH (1.37) range .350-5.500

T4 (5.2) range 4.5-12.0

T3 Uptake (45) range 24-39

Free Thyroxine Index (2.3) range 1.2-4.9

Kinda weird T3 is high, oh well, not sure why.

Even if 12 I.U. 3x week and 4 I.U. EOD are very different protocol we can see some interesting results.

Comparing the bloodwork from 10/06/06 (4 I.U. EOD) with the last in time (12 I.U. 3x week 10 weeks on T4 100 mcgs ED) 2 things are evident:

- Free T3 is slightly higher in the later and T3 uptake has increased a lot.

- Even with added exo T4 your bloodwork shows that you have less circulating T4!

So we can speculate that T4 is been converted to T3 in a efficient manner who doesn't seem to lost effectiviness past 10 weeks ON oral T4 but how exo T4 can produce a fall in circulating T4?

It could be the different HGH protocol (high dose only PWO 3xweek) who depletes the body of his endo T4 and even the added one?

At least we can conclude that in your case exo T4 for this HGH protocol is not negative.

One more piece in the puzzle...and one more answer without answer.

 

[someday]

I was just reading up on this tonight as I have the same elevated level on my test from earlier in the week. Here's a paste from one of the links Massive posted about interpreting bloodwork results....

Thyroid

There are 2 types of thyroid hormones easily measurable in the blood, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). For technical reasons, it is easier and less expensive to measure the T4 level, so T3 is usually not measured on screening tests.

Please be clear on which test you are looking at. We continue to see a tremendous amount of confusion among doctors, nurses, lab techs, and patients on which test is which. In particular, the "Total T3", "Free T3" and "T3 Uptake tests" are very confusing, and are not the same test.

Thyroxine (T4) . This shows the total amount of the T4. High levels may be due to hyperthyroidism, however technical artifact occurs when estrogen levels are higher from pregnancy, birth control pills or estrogen replacement therapy. A Free T4 (see below) can avoid this interference.

T3 Resin Uptake or Thyroid Uptake. This is a test that confuses doctors, nurses, and patients. First, this is not a thyroid test, but a test on the proteins that carry thyroid around in your blood stream. Not only that, a high test number may indicate a low level of the protein! The method of reporting varies from lab to lab. The proper use of the test is to compute the free thyroxine index.

Free Thyroxine Index (FTI or T7) : A mathematical computation allows the lab to estimate the free thyroxine index from the T4 and T3 Uptake tests. The results tell us how much thyroid hormone is free in the blood stream to work on the body. Unlike the T4 alone, it is not affected by estrogen levels.

Free T4 : This test directly measures the free T4 in the blood rather than estimating it like the FTI. It is a more reliable , but a little more expensive test. Some labs now do the Free T4 routinely rather than the Total T4.

Total T3: This is usually not ordered as a screening test, but rather when thyroid disease is being evaluated. T3 is the more potent and shorter lived version of thyroid hormone. Some people with high thyroid levels secrete more T3 than T4. In these (overactive) hyperthyroid cases the T4 can be normal, the T3 high, and the TSH low. The Total T3 reports the total amount of T3 in the bloodstream, including T3 bound to carrier proteins plus freely circulating T3.

Free T3: This test measures only the portion of thyroid hormone T3 that is "free", that is, not bound to carrier proteins.

 

[GoneForever]

Just got another blood test and here are my thyroid results. On 4iu's Gh ed with no thyroid meds yet my t3 is high and t4 looks on the lower side

tsh was 1.76 range .35-5.5
t4 was 4.8 range 4.5-12.0 (seems low)
t3 was 41 range 24-39
free thyroxine index was 2.0 range 1.2-4.9

 

[Massive G]

More notes on the testing you had.

T3 Uptake: This test is mentioned only as a warning not to use it. In fact, it does not measure T3 levels at all – the name is misleading. It is an old test designed with a purpose of indirectly measuring T4! It was developed before we were able to accurately measure T4 levels. The assumption was that if the patient had a high T4 level, the blood proteins would be saturated with it. Therefore when mixed with T3 (which is easier to measure), the blood proteins would take up very little T3. Thus a low T3 uptake implies elevated T4 levels and vice versa. Thus the T3 Uptake test is actually an antiquated, inaccurate way to measure T4 levels.
Free Thyroxine Index: This test uses T3 Uptake as one of its factors and therefore is as useless as the T3 Uptake. Again, I list it here only as a warning to not throw your money away on this and save it for a meaningful test.

T4 is pretty much worthless IMO and AR should be shot for suggesting people use it, many have problems converting it and tons of things interfere with it. T4 also has a very long half life.
If you really want to cut to the chase just use T3, 15-25 mcgs twice a day. Relatively short half life, and it's potent. If your T3 is high it's gonna shut down the TSH release from the pituatary as your body senses it has enough thyroid and stops releasing TSH. Synthetic T4 was the worst drug ever invented. It has had many problems with correct dosing from the manufacturer, as well as storage and temp effects it's potency many things interfere with it's conversion, and it should be take on an empty stomach several hours before eating to even give it a chance to work.
If you cut to the chase with T3 there is no guess work what you will be getting. A natural thyroid prep is availalbe Armour which is dessicated pig thyroid and a mix of T4/T3, and there is also a synthetic mix of T4/T3 called Thyrolar again there could be a problem with conversion on the T4 although Armour does contain small amounts of T1 and T2 hormones which most endos consider worthless but they have some value.
From what your blood work suggests you haven't really been getting any extra T3, unless your free T3 tests would say otherwise.

 

[GoneForever]

So does everything look pretty normal. Im a tad concerend that the t4 is on the lower side but maybe this is b/c of the gh use?

More notes on the testing you had.

T3 Uptake: This test is mentioned only as a warning not to use it. In fact, it does not measure T3 levels at all – the name is misleading. It is an old test designed with a purpose of indirectly measuring T4! It was developed before we were able to accurately measure T4 levels. The assumption was that if the patient had a high T4 level, the blood proteins would be saturated with it. Therefore when mixed with T3 (which is easier to measure), the blood proteins would take up very little T3. Thus a low T3 uptake implies elevated T4 levels and vice versa. Thus the T3 Uptake test is actually an antiquated, inaccurate way to measure T4 levels.
Free Thyroxine Index: This test uses T3 Uptake as one of its factors and therefore is as useless as the T3 Uptake. Again, I list it here only as a warning to not throw your money away on this and save it for a meaningful test.

T4 is pretty much worthless IMO and AR should be shot for suggesting people use it, many have problems converting it and tons of things interfere with it. T4 also has a very long half life.
If you really want to cut to the chase just use T3, 15-25 mcgs twice a day. Relatively short half life, and it's potent. If your T3 is high it's gonna shut down the TSH release from the pituatary as your body senses it has enough thyroid and stops releasing TSH. Synthetic T4 was the worst drug ever invented. It has had many problems with correct dosing from the manufacturer, as well as storage and temp effects it's potency many things interfere with it's conversion, and it should be take on an empty stomach several hours before eating to even give it a chance to work.
If you cut to the chase with T3 there is no guess work what you will be getting. A natural thyroid prep is availalbe Armour which is dessicated pig thyroid and a mix of T4/T3, and there is also a synthetic mix of T4/T3 called Thyrolar again there could be a problem with conversion on the T4 although Armour does contain small amounts of T1 and T2 hormones which most endos consider worthless but they have some value.
From what your blood work suggests you haven't really been getting any extra T3, unless your free T3 tests would say otherwise.

 

[muscledoc1]

you are still at normal values,your fine.

 

[Max32]

Very intereseting thoughts on the T4 usage. I have been using around 100 mcg daily with 5 ius gh usage. Is this the probable cause of why I have been sluggish and had zero appetite?? If so, any advice on winging off, my thoughts were to go with a tapered down dosage and then to something OTC like our ALR T-X??

More notes on the testing you had.

T3 Uptake: This test is mentioned only as a warning not to use it. In fact, it does not measure T3 levels at all – the name is misleading. It is an old test designed with a purpose of indirectly measuring T4! It was developed before we were able to accurately measure T4 levels. The assumption was that if the patient had a high T4 level, the blood proteins would be saturated with it. Therefore when mixed with T3 (which is easier to measure), the blood proteins would take up very little T3. Thus a low T3 uptake implies elevated T4 levels and vice versa. Thus the T3 Uptake test is actually an antiquated, inaccurate way to measure T4 levels.
Free Thyroxine Index: This test uses T3 Uptake as one of its factors and therefore is as useless as the T3 Uptake. Again, I list it here only as a warning to not throw your money away on this and save it for a meaningful test.

T4 is pretty much worthless IMO and AR should be shot for suggesting people use it, many have problems converting it and tons of things interfere with it. T4 also has a very long half life.
If you really want to cut to the chase just use T3, 15-25 mcgs twice a day. Relatively short half life, and it's potent. If your T3 is high it's gonna shut down the TSH release from the pituatary as your body senses it has enough thyroid and stops releasing TSH. Synthetic T4 was the worst drug ever invented. It has had many problems with correct dosing from the manufacturer, as well as storage and temp effects it's potency many things interfere with it's conversion, and it should be take on an empty stomach several hours before eating to even give it a chance to work.
If you cut to the chase with T3 there is no guess work what you will be getting. A natural thyroid prep is availalbe Armour which is dessicated pig thyroid and a mix of T4/T3, and there is also a synthetic mix of T4/T3 called Thyrolar again there could be a problem with conversion on the T4 although Armour does contain small amounts of T1 and T2 hormones which most endos consider worthless but they have some value.
From what your blood work suggests you haven't really been getting any extra T3, unless your free T3 tests would say otherwise.

 

[Massive G]

Very intereseting thoughts on the T4 usage. I have been using around 100 mcg daily with 5 ius gh usage. Is this the probable cause of why I have been sluggish and had zero appetite?? If so, any advice on winging off, my thoughts were to go with a tapered down dosage and then to something OTC like our ALR T-X??

When are you taking it and for how long?
T4 should be taken on an empty stomach in the morning-preferrably 4-5 am with plenty of water 2-3 hours before meals. It will take about 2-3 weeks to see changes in the panel if you get blood work done or in energy level.

 

[GoneForever]

When are you taking it and for how long?
T4 should be taken on an empty stomach in the morning-preferrably 4-5 am with plenty of water 2-3 hours before meals. It will take about 2-3 weeks to see changes in the panel if you get blood work done or in energy level.

My wife is prescribed 112mcg and I dont think the doc's stress enough on how important it is to take on an empty stomach. He said just take it when you wake up and wait an hour to eat. I think it should be taken when you wake up in the middle of the night to pee, that way you've already been on an empty stomach for at least a few hours and wont wake up again to eat for at least another few hours as well.

 

[Max32]

When are you taking it and for how long?
T4 should be taken on an empty stomach in the morning-preferrably 4-5 am with plenty of water 2-3 hours before meals. It will take about 2-3 weeks to see changes in the panel if you get blood work done or in energy level.

Was never told to take on an empty stomach, thus, has it pretty much been useless??