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True half lives of esters

Type-IIx

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IV drip for the win!
And only get to poke yourself once for 24*7*365 infusion? Lame!

This thread is the epitome of, and I include myself in this, myopic disagreements over minutae that is best-suited for the application of Occam's razor. It really is most prudent in my view to adhere to simplifying assumptions. So, while it's true that all these factors influence biological half-life, what are we to do when we cannot actually measure the absorption-distribution-metabolism-excretion of these compounds in ourselves in real-time? IMO, just use steroidplotter and make adjustments if absolutely necessary based on FEELZ in line with the data & a shift towards more frequent pinning (by this I mean something like thrice weekly for an enanthate/cypionate ester; if you're masochistic and like to feel like a pin-cushion by using acetate, every other day [yes, you can argue for daily but it really is just not a sustainable long-term plan for IM admin., though if an auto-injector and appropriate solution existed I'd alter this view for subq use]; etc.)
 

specter

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And only get to poke yourself once for 24*7*365 infusion? Lame!

This thread is the epitome of, and I include myself in this, myopic disagreements over minutae that is best-suited for the application of Occam's razor. It really is most prudent in my view to adhere to simplifying assumptions. So, while it's true that all these factors influence biological half-life, what are we to do when we cannot actually measure the absorption-distribution-metabolism-excretion of these compounds in ourselves in real-time? IMO, just use steroidplotter and make adjustments if absolutely necessary based on FEELZ in line with the data & a shift towards more frequent pinning (by this I mean something like thrice weekly for an enanthate/cypionate ester; if you're masochistic and like to feel like a pin-cushion by using acetate, every other day [yes, you can argue for daily but it really is just not a sustainable long-term plan for IM admin., though if an auto-injector and appropriate solution existed I'd alter this view for subq use]; etc.)
KISS..
 

climber

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Thanks for the input... Fwif, this post/ question wasn't in relation to inj freq but more about when gear will be out of my system due to some medical shit I'm going though
 

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Why people overcomplicate everything.....

Carrier Oil it's an oil that carries the molecule, later on It Will get cleaved by esterase.

Moreover MCT oil has NO omega 6 in it, but it's a tad acidic.

I notice that here some people listen too much to Coach Steve......

the thing is there are differences in oils but not so much in the way that ppl here are talking about.

different oils have differen weights, viscosities, holding properites etc.
hormone can be leached from the oil like what happens with te in the first 24 hrs.
if a true solution was not created that too will change how the hormone is absorbed.

i dont think with aas you actually see too much of this.

in order to get various non aas items to work animal played with various oils that were kept very secret. different types of mct help with solubility. im pretty sure that i have guninie pigged this more then most with compounds that have that you can feel more then aas.

ppl talk a bout ugs and price. i know for 100% sure not all ugs use the cheapest stuff around, some in fact use the most expensive stuff around as it is better. pharams do not do this as they are interested in the bottom line. no one in pharam world is making drugs for there use caring for there body.

choice of stopper can give you a little insight into the whole cost vs utility issue.

ppl like to think things work in straight lines but that just isnt the case in living chemical creations.
 

ripriot

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i guess he is misinterpreting both our posts since basically, i am telling nothing different than he does but he mocks me since the first post and i dont get why xD
If the change in half life is so relevant then why do guys not include what carrier oils they are using when posting bloodwork. I’m not misinterpreting anything.

Both of you ignored the last sentence in my post. Instead made accusations at me.
 

Mufasa123

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If the change in half life is so relevant then why do guys not include what carrier oils they are using when posting bloodwork. I’m not misinterpreting anything.

Both of you ignored the last sentence in my post. Instead made accusations at me.

Honestly half life per the info in this thread, some of which I shared, is a shit show. Individual variance, carrier oil, injection location, volume of injection all make a significant difference. Reality is that even holding individual, oil, volume and substance constant even on the same target muscle you can get a day or more of variability just injection to injection.

Basically you go with really broad averages and then inject a bit more frequently and that's probably decent for best results to cover all of it. Example being enanthate or decanoate 2x a week when 1x would probably be okay. Best you can do or like someone else said, say fuck it and inject evenly daily if you want. None of this is as precise as people would like to believe, still works fine though. Don't sweat it.
 

[email protected]

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If the change in half life is so relevant then why do guys not include what carrier oils they are using when posting bloodwork. I’m not misinterpreting anything.

Both of you ignored the last sentence in my post. Instead made accusations at me.
who said it is mega relevant?
most guys here inject e3d max, so noone needs to care if the half life is 4,5 days or 7 days..
I just stated facts, i didnt say you have to include this in your cycle layout
 

OuchThatHurts

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who said it is mega relevant?
most guys here inject e3d max, so noone needs to care if the half life is 4,5 days or 7 days..
I just stated facts, i didnt say you have to include this in your cycle layout
I have no idea what he's talking about.
 

ripriot

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who said it is mega relevant?
most guys here inject e3d max, so noone needs to care if the half life is 4,5 days or 7 days..
I just stated facts, i didnt say you have to include this in your cycle layout
I have no idea what he's talking about.
Both of you escape what you said by ignoring the question… no need to discuss with people who don’t want to have a conversation.
 

ripriot

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Honestly half life per the info in this thread, some of which I shared, is a shit show. Individual variance, carrier oil, injection location, volume of injection all make a significant difference. Reality is that even holding individual, oil, volume and substance constant even on the same target muscle you can get a day or more of variability just injection to injection.

Basically you go with really broad averages and then inject a bit more frequently and that's probably decent for best results to cover all of it. Example being enanthate or decanoate 2x a week when 1x would probably be okay. Best you can do or like someone else said, say fuck it and inject evenly daily if you want. None of this is as precise as people would like to believe, still works fine though. Don't sweat it.
There are multiple factors to determine half life. The two most important factors are the carrier oil and ester.
 

Mufasa123

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There are multiple factors to determine half life. The two most important factors are the carrier oil and ester.

My comment assumed ester and compound constant as that's the basis of the whole thread but yeah you are absolutely right.
 

Ehren

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Oils are used (or used to be) based on the prescription version of that particular product.

Testoviron Depot by Bayer is TE, arachis oil, and BA
Depo-Testosterone by Pfizer and Deletestryl by Endo is TC, sesame oil, BA, and BB
Nebido by Bayer is TU in refined castor oil and BB

No pharma product out there for IM inj uses MCT oil and UGLs have sort of gone their own way on formulations but the viscosity of the oil and hydrophobicity of the ester dissolved in it are absolutely essential in determining a product's half-life.
Sorry to bump an old thread. OTH, you said something interesting here that answers a pretty often asked question; Bayer Testoviron is in Arachis oil.

A lot of people are convinced that because Bayer Rimobolan is in thick castor oil, Bayer Testoviron that's in thin oil, is fake. I actually could never find info on which oil Testoviron is supposed to use, so have just kept a kept a box off to the side, unused, fearing it's bunk despite it coming from a reliable source and looking 100%

So, thank you!
 

OuchThatHurts

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Sorry to bump an old thread. OTH, you said something interesting here that answers a pretty often asked question; Bayer Testoviron is in Arachis oil.

A lot of people are convinced that because Bayer Rimobolan is in thick castor oil, Bayer Testoviron that's in thin oil, is fake. I actually could never find info on which oil Testoviron is supposed to use, so have just kept a kept a box off to the side, unused, fearing it's bunk despite it coming from a reliable source and looking 100%

So, thank you!
I'm glad it helped you out. That's what ProM is all about. Peace, brother!

Edit: oh, and one more thing is that Testoviron is probably the best oil I ever used. Love the stuff.
 
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Elvia1023

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A few things come to mind. In case some don't realize arachis oil is simply just peanut oil and it's used in a few pharm products. It's not uncommon for people to have issues with peanut oil. UG's don't use the cheapest oil available and quite often it works the other way round. Pharm companies are all about making as much money as possible. Obviously UG's want to do that as well but quite a lot use expensive carrier oils because some are simply better overall. Geno uses miglyol 818 or similar for example.

Some people on here really overcomplicate the crap out of things. Half lives only really make a difference if you are comparing something that is short or long. If the half life of x is 7, 9 or 10 days it's not going to make any difference in the grand scheme. In my experience quite a lot of the people who overthink this type of stuff aren't even sticking to their diets or training that hard a.k.a doing the basics. If you are doing everything necessary then the stress/confusion from overthinking everything may/will even go against you.

We all want to be right and know the details but again unless it's test p vs test e then who cares. Most dose things at least 2 times weekly anyway. If you want to do ED or EOD then do that and it will mean this makes no difference whatsoever. Now if you want to do test p once weekly that's when this becomes a factor but quite honestly as long as you stick to at least twice weekly injections you are gtg. Even guys doing long esters once weekly are fine and it's not like you are going to lose muscle because you didn't shoot on the 5th day.

Many like to do very frequent injections to reduce aromatization and other side effects and that can make a big difference for some but even for those the half life of most compounds is irrelevant. Just be consistent and knowing the rough half life of all compounds is very useful but debating over a few days is pointless.
 

buck

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A few things come to mind. In case some don't realize arachis oil is simply just peanut oil and it's used in a few pharm products. It's not uncommon for people to have issues with peanut oil. UG's don't use the cheapest oil available and quite often it works the other way round. Pharm companies are all about making as much money as possible. Obviously UG's want to do that as well but quite a lot use expensive carrier oils because some are simply better overall. Geno uses miglyol 818 or similar for example.

Some people on here really overcomplicate the crap out of things. Half lives only really make a difference if you are comparing something that is short or long. If the half life of x is 7, 9 or 10 days it's not going to make any difference in the grand scheme. In my experience quite a lot of the people who overthink this type of stuff aren't even sticking to their diets or training that hard a.k.a doing the basics. If you are doing everything necessary then the stress/confusion from overthinking everything may/will even go against you.

We all want to be right and know the details but again unless it's test p vs test e then who cares. Most dose things at least 2 times weekly anyway. If you want to do ED or EOD then do that and it will mean this makes no difference whatsoever. Now if you want to do test p once weekly that's when this becomes a factor but quite honestly as long as you stick to at least twice weekly injections you are gtg. Even guys doing long esters once weekly are fine and it's not like you are going to lose muscle because you didn't shoot on the 5th day.

Many like to do very frequent injections to reduce aromatization and other side effects and that can make a big difference for some but even for those the half life of most compounds is irrelevant. Just be consistent and knowing the rough half life of all compounds is very useful but debating over a few days is pointless.
But if we didn't have pointless posts(such as this one from me ) then there would be much less content. And i wouldn't have anything to scroll past!
 

specter

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Sorry to bump an old thread. OTH, you said something interesting here that answers a pretty often asked question; Bayer Testoviron is in Arachis oil.

A lot of people are convinced that because Bayer Rimobolan is in thick castor oil, Bayer Testoviron that's in thin oil, is fake. I actually could never find info on which oil Testoviron is supposed to use, so have just kept a kept a box off to the side, unused, fearing it's bunk despite it coming from a reliable source and looking 100%

So, thank you!
According to Bayer its Castor oil.

 

OuchThatHurts

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Today, it may be but it wasn't always so. Still may not be. The name Testoviron is almost 100 years old. When it first appeared it was propionate by Schering in the 1930s. Then there was a two ester formula. I'm not even sure it's still made at all. Bayer sold their undecanoate formula with oil of caster "Nebido" to a European company for half a billion euros this year. The vials and amps that have a very clear refined oil read simply "testosterone enanthate in oily solution". But my point was that generics used to generally have the same active ingredients as the name brand, same pharmocodynamics, etc, but this is hardly ever the case with UGLs. The formulas I listed above are 20 years old at least.

But I highly doubt his Bayer is fake.
 

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