We should be the strongest men in our cities

Biggerp73 · Feb 9, 2023

From July to December I really didn't workout at all, didn't eat much, didn't use anything, and I lost a bunch of size. For the first couple weeks getting back at it, I was following a more traditional bodybuilding routine, reps 5-12, hitting failure once or twice per workout, etc. Then I decided I wanted to play football again this year so I switched to strength training. Very low volume warm up. Mostly singles, some higher reps like 2-5. Never hitting failure unless going for 1rm and not getting it. Only doing a a couple working sets per session. My strength is immediately at an all time high. There isn't a machine in the gym that I don't need to use the whole stack and then pin a 45lb plate in addition to the full stack, just for my warm ups. And not surprisingly, I'm growing bigger faster than before. This is confirming prior suspicions about needing to get strong to get big, and the futility of trying to get big by using a traditional bodybuilding routine without first being able to use truly big weights. At this point I am starting to think that all of us juicers have absolutely no excuse other than ignorance to not be strong AF individuals, like, strongest in the city type strong. Otherwise wtf are we even doing.

Reno911 · Feb 9, 2023

I think joint integrity becomes a limiting factor with age for most. There will come a time when the whole stack won't feel great on the joints.

stackdizzy · Feb 9, 2023

I know one 2400lbs totaler that is fucking huge and ripped. I know of a few 700-800lb benchers that are big. Not as big as some of the members on this board and definitely not in as good of shape but then very few people are. A lot of guys in great shape and huge do powerlifting. In fact they are some of the biggest and definitely the strongest in my city. Then I know a few anomalies that are bigger and in better shape(like 250lbs on stage) then them that don't do powerlifting but they are strong. Not terribly strong like powerlifters but they train differently. Then again I know of one powerlifter that benches in the 700s that isn't that big at all but he can move weight. So all that being said I think you just have to find what makes you grow. Though powerlifting makes a great case for itself. Currently I am nursing a shoulder that prevents me from moving anything too heavy so I train accordingly. I also seem to be injured one week of the month so I might just drop heavy entirely and go with less rest higher reps. Which I have done in the past with success. If I could though I'd be moving as much as I can.

pesty4077 · Feb 9, 2023

"You can always lie about how strong you are, but you can never lie about how good you look."

Love_to_Bodybuild · Feb 9, 2023

If I could get away with lifting five pounds and look like I do now and have even more muscle, I would

qbkilla · Feb 9, 2023

pesty4077 said:
"You can always lie about how strong you are, but you can never lie about how good you look."

Great quote!

Orville Shreddenbacher · Feb 9, 2023

pesty4077 said:
"You can always lie about how strong you are, but you can never lie about how good you look."

When I was younger the older guys would yell at me for going heavy , there are no barbells at the beach or in the club they would say . Now in my mid 40s I know what they meant.

blackjack · Feb 9, 2023

Biggerp73 said:
From July to December I really didn't workout at all, didn't eat much, didn't use anything, and I lost a bunch of size. For the first couple weeks getting back at it, I was following a more traditional bodybuilding routine, reps 5-12, hitting failure once or twice per workout, etc. Then I decided I wanted to play football again this year so I switched to strength training. Very low volume warm up. Mostly singles, some higher reps like 2-5. Never hitting failure unless going for 1rm and not getting it. Only doing a a couple working sets per session. My strength is immediately at an all time high. There isn't a machine in the gym that I don't need to use the whole stack and then pin a 45lb plate in addition to the full stack, just for my warm ups. And not surprisingly, I'm growing bigger faster than before. This is confirming prior suspicions about needing to get strong to get big, and the futility of trying to get big by using a traditional bodybuilding routine without first being able to use truly big weights. At this point I am starting to think that all of us juicers have absolutely no excuse other than ignorance to not be strong AF individuals, like, strongest in the city type strong. Otherwise wtf are we even doing.

I've never been able to figure out if you're a troll or just plain old "off" - and maybe you don't even know yet, but you are entertaining nonetheless sir!

luki7788 · Feb 9, 2023

I don't agree with this theory completely - yes I do think you should get really strong to build a foundation and size but then you don't have to get stronger all the time to get bigger

I will say more - I noticed that the bigger I am, the less I lift, and it's not because I'm weaker, but the excess muscle mass limits my mobility and I can't, for example, assume the optimal position and the best arrangement for bench or dead lift, but still I am much bigger than when I lifted much heavier weights than I do now

it should also be noted that when I was younger I focused only on lifting the weight and now I focus on working the muscles - it's a huge difference

TheOtherOne55 · Feb 9, 2023

Biggerp73 said:
From July to December I really didn't workout at all, didn't eat much, didn't use anything, and I lost a bunch of size. For the first couple weeks getting back at it, I was following a more traditional bodybuilding routine, reps 5-12, hitting failure once or twice per workout, etc. Then I decided I wanted to play football again this year so I switched to strength training. Very low volume warm up. Mostly singles, some higher reps like 2-5. Never hitting failure unless going for 1rm and not getting it. Only doing a a couple working sets per session. My strength is immediately at an all time high. There isn't a machine in the gym that I don't need to use the whole stack and then pin a 45lb plate in addition to the full stack, just for my warm ups. And not surprisingly, I'm growing bigger faster than before. This is confirming prior suspicions about needing to get strong to get big, and the futility of trying to get big by using a traditional bodybuilding routine without first being able to use truly big weights. At this point I am starting to think that all of us juicers have absolutely no excuse other than ignorance to not be strong AF individuals, like, strongest in the city type strong. Otherwise wtf are we even doing.

im actually confused on what you are even trying to say here...
Also, progressive overload. It will lead to both.

Do triples for your lifetime and you wont grow a massive chest. Every massive 500+lb bencher spent a bunch of time building their base with more volume and regular trainng...NOT PLing training. And im telling you this as a former 540lb raw bencher and PLer. Can I touch that weight anymore? Hell no. And my chest is waaaay bigger and more developed now.

I also dont know anyone BIG who isnt really stronger. Like Dante and JP say, get stronger in different rep ranges and you WILL BE big and strong, simple as that. Skip the 1RM or singles and double unless you are looking to be injured.

narta · Feb 9, 2023

When you 're young you need the numbers. When you 're old you need your joints.

Hatchet · Feb 9, 2023

Biggerp73 said:
From July to December I really didn't workout at all, didn't eat much, didn't use anything, and I lost a bunch of size. For the first couple weeks getting back at it, I was following a more traditional bodybuilding routine, reps 5-12, hitting failure once or twice per workout, etc. Then I decided I wanted to play football again this year so I switched to strength training. Very low volume warm up. Mostly singles, some higher reps like 2-5. Never hitting failure unless going for 1rm and not getting it. Only doing a a couple working sets per session. My strength is immediately at an all time high. There isn't a machine in the gym that I don't need to use the whole stack and then pin a 45lb plate in addition to the full stack, just for my warm ups. And not surprisingly, I'm growing bigger faster than before. This is confirming prior suspicions about needing to get strong to get big, and the futility of trying to get big by using a traditional bodybuilding routine without first being able to use truly big weights. At this point I am starting to think that all of us juicers have absolutely no excuse other than ignorance to not be strong AF individuals, like, strongest in the city type strong. Otherwise wtf are we even doing.

Arent you the guy from GetBig with the Bunny suit with the "annus" cut out?

dantes · Feb 9, 2023

luki7788 said:
I don't agree with this theory completely - yes I do think you should get really strong to build a foundation and size but then you don't have to get stronger all the time to get bigger

I will say more - I noticed that the bigger I am, the less I lift, and it's not because I'm weaker, but the excess muscle mass limits my mobility and I can't, for example, assume the optimal position and the best arrangement for bench or dead lift, but still I am much bigger than when I lifted much heavier weights than I do now

it should also be noted that when I was younger I focused only on lifting the weight and now I focus on working the muscles - it's a huge difference

I would suspect your form has also changed considerably from the optimal form of moving weight from point A to point B to I suspect your current form which aims to recruit optimal target muscle as opposed to just moving weight.
I am a big believer in feeling the muscle although I know the science nerds refute such bro myths and believe only in progressive overload and mass gained via strength gains.

qbkilla · Feb 9, 2023

dantes said:
I would suspect your form has also changed considerably from the optimal form of moving weight from point A to point B to I suspect your current form which aims to recruit optimal target muscle as opposed to just moving weight.
I am a big believer in feeling the muscle although I know the science nerds refute such bro myths and believe only in progressive overload and mass gained via strength gains.

I think the science nerds are more obsessed with volume from what I've seen. Essentially more sets = more growth. They are also very against failure because they think if you don't train as hard you can squeeze more total sets into your week. I don't agree but that is what I see them posting on ig. Failure, bro splits = evil to them

slesh · Feb 9, 2023

I think controlled movements and getting that contraction/squeeze pump is what it’s all about at the end of the day. That and just fatiguing the fuck out of the muscle through volume and frequency. Don’t think you need to be the strongest dude in the gym to obtain the physique most of us on this board are trying to achieve. Just my 2 cents…

socialdfan · Feb 9, 2023

You can be mobile and flexible as you age but only strength will allow you to pull yourself up or drag yourself to safety after a fall.

As far as joints I think Donnie Thompson said something like "how many heavy squats do your hips have". So he recommends squat briefs which if you have never used a nice pair of single ply feel amazing. Think knee sleeve for your hips. I am a pro strength guy. That is all.

Fa Seeshus · Feb 9, 2023

Much of this debate is probably age and injury related.

One of my buds always gave me grief for not back squatting EVERY workout and trying to go heavy EVERY workout. Well he ended up destroying his lower back from pattern overload and now he can't even push hard on squats at all. So after all that tough guy blabber he now has to train like a complete p@$$y.

Elvia1023 · Feb 9, 2023

luki7788 said:
I don't agree with this theory completely - yes I do think you should get really strong to build a foundation and size but then you don't have to get stronger all the time to get bigger

I will say more - I noticed that the bigger I am, the less I lift, and it's not because I'm weaker, but the excess muscle mass limits my mobility and I can't, for example, assume the optimal position and the best arrangement for bench or dead lift, but still I am much bigger than when I lifted much heavier weights than I do now

it should also be noted that when I was younger I focused only on lifting the weight and now I focus on working the muscles - it's a huge difference

Exactly.

It should go without saying a stronger you will likely be a bigger you but I think some get too lost in that notion. Although getting stronger is a clear and effective way of accessing progression over time so I am not stating people shouldn't use it. I just think some go overboard with the notion and almost believe as long as they continue to get stronger they will continue to grow. I should add I always tried to get stronger within certain form and rep ranges and I recommend that to everyone. Although I also think in regards to growth it's not just about getting stronger and often if guys continue trying to do that it will eventually go against them.

Nutrition and drugs dictate size much more than training. Obviously training needs to be maximized and everyone should be aiming to get as strong as possible but the results aren't as linear as some think. If I really wanted to (put everything into it) I could grow 20 pounds heavier (muscle) now and I wouldn't need to be getting progressively stronger to do so. Obviously strength is also a byproduct of size as well so it should be normal to get stronger as you grow without forcing it by an every rep every single time you train. Some guys love log book training though and it definitely works and it's something for them to remain accountable and to be able to access progression so I would never recommend against it. One example to leave people with his your chest will definitely be bigger if you can bench press 4pps compared to 1pps but it doesn't mean it will continue to improve if you get to 5pps and then improve again if you manage 6pps.

qbkilla · Feb 9, 2023

Op I just re read the post, was there an injury or reason for taking 6 months off? I'd die. I'd think any routine would give great results after not training that long. Also if you were doing 1-2 sets to failure before the strength type training, I'd hardly call that ideal. Was it just volume pump work? Just some thoughts after reading the post in more detail. It almost sounds like a combination of the long break than what you did before that didn't get results wasn't really training hard while your strength training you put in more effort. Full disclosure I'm a big proponent of "failure" I probably wouldn't want to even train if I wasn't hitting failure...even more so if I was now doing crazy high volume which is what I assume most who don't try to hit failure do.