What I've learned (or haven't learned) about prohormones

[Dr.S]

When I started hearing a few folks on this board having good results with SUS500 I decided to start researching the latest pro-hormones. It's been years since I've used gear and about as long since trying pro-hormones (probably 2000-2001 or so)--- back then they were pretty much garbage. I briefly thought about a small gear cycle not long before the busts happened, but now the plans are done with---in fact I'm completely done with it---too risky.

So I'm board hop'n, doing random searches on pro-hormones. I can remember researching gear in the 90's and it was a bit confusing, but nothing like this (maybe I'm just getting or have gotten old ). There are lots of guys using and lots of chat forums regarding pro-hormones; in fact many of these guys refer to their pro-hormones as steroids. Some of the most common lingo is wet vs. dry gains; clean vs. dirty; pulsing....hell, I wasn't sure if these guys were talking supplements or mixing a martini !

My initial thought was that the FDA/gvmnt wouldn't let these onto the market if they were that effective, but we all know the FDA/gvmnt do things where you want to throw your hands up and say wft are they thinking? It is kind of funny to listen to some of the pro-hormone users freaking out about gyno, liver issues and such----"OMG-- how could you mix Epsitane with Havoc!, you're going to get boobs and need a liver transplant!--hehe.....OK, so I'm exagerating a bit--- although I guess better safe than sorry.

What surprised me is to hear some of the gains people are making of these pro-hormones; we don't have many posting on ProMuscle, but a few reviews have been trickling in.

These are some of the names I see most commonly (apparently there are lots of "clones", but too many to mention).... btw-- this site seems to have tons of guys posting about PH **broken link removed**

EPISTANE

Phera-Plex/Phera-Mass (the one Phil just started selling)

M-DROL/SUPERDROL

HAVOC

HALODROL

Not as much on SUS500, but it seems everyone who used it did like it quite a bit. There are others for use on their own, or people talk about for PCT like NOVODEX and EPISTANE also for PCT. Actually more of them seem to be using Tamoxifen, Clomid, and/or Arimed/Femera than the "legal" ones for PCT (seems kinda strange they get the Clomid/Tamox, but go with pro-hormones instead of gear?----like I said, though, I'm still mostly ignorant when it comes to pro-hormones)



So.... I hope some of you can chime in here--- maybe some of us can start a log similar to what Tom did after his SUS 500 use. I've got a few bottles of SUS 500, and I'm pondering maybe starting off with Phera-Plex/Mass for a few weeks. Seems Phera is methyl and may bloat a bit, while the SUS 500 gets you hard/dry. I haven't started yet b/c I want to have everything in place before doing so--- thinking maybe Novodex or Espistane for PCT (crap, I'm starting to sound like those pro-hormone junkies )

 

[shoestring]

Yes its like a whole other world out there. If you go to some of those boards ( like AM ) it is scary to listen to all the you guys doing these crazy cycles with this shit, like it is some kind of game or something. Some of this stuff works for sure. I have friends that have used them. I have been tempted by some. Epistane is interesting me at the moment. But the safety issue keeps coming up for me. These are things that a chemist dreams up & then people start taking it without any data behind it. Then there is the issue of china & there blatant disregard for QC & safety. Even if the target hormone is a really good one, who knows what ends up in the product that they send us. They put lead paint on childrens toys & rat pioson in dog food, so anything is possible. I would like to think that all the supplement companies test all of the powder they get but who knows? I am sure that some of these products are really good , but I like to know for sure what I am putting in my body. I know lots of people use UG stuff , but I am not into that scene. But on the other hand, there are tons of people using this stuff & so far we have not seen a lot of em getting sick. Pheraplex (& clones) have been a favorite for a few years now & I am sure Peramax is a solid product. Maybe I am just an alarmist , but....

 

[KillerStack]

Actually more of them seem to be using Tamoxifen, Clomid, and/or Arimed/Femera than the "legal" ones for PCT (seems kinda strange they get the Clomid/Tamox, but go with pro-hormones instead of gear?----like I said, though, I'm still mostly ignorant when it comes to pro-hormones)

Make no mistake, most of these substances are bonafide anabolic steroids. They just aren't listed as banned steroids. Doesn't mean that they are really legal though either so the authorities can bring heat on them at any time, as they have done. What these supplement companies did was simply read through a steroid reference book by one Julius Vida and when they found one that looked like it might work well (favorable anabolic rating etc) they contracted the Chinese to make it for them.

 

[KillerStack]

Then there is the issue of china & there blatant disregard for QC & safety. Even if the target hormone is a really good one, who knows what ends up in the product that they send us.

Quality/actual content control is poor, no question. Just as a documented case, a scientist analyzed Halodrol a while back and it contained 3 different steroids while the label naturally only had 1 (there was a newspaper article). Imagine what the quality control is for some of these smaller companies (nonexistant).

Patrick Arnold has analyzed a lot of these products and there has been a lot of drama due to his results over the past few years.

 

[shoestring]

Quality/actual content control is poor, no question. Just as a documented case, a scientist analyzed Halodrol a while back and it contained 3 different steroids while the label naturally only had 1 (there was a newspaper article). Imagine what the quality control is for some of these smaller companies (nonexistant).

Patrick Arnold has analyzed a lot of these products and there has been a lot of drama due to his results over the past few years.

Epistane comes to mind. IBE vs Havoc , ect. containing different molecules. There was a huge debate about this involving Patrick Arnold & other internet PH gurus. I wanted to use epistane but after this I am reluctant. I think they just cap whatever the chinese send em & hope it works & nobody becomes ill. Then after a few months they discontinue the product & come out with a new one.

 

[debo22]

SUS 500 was pretty good although i would think of it more like a cutting type compound. It made me lose weight and get really hard and strong. the weight loss was due to the AI (novedex xt clone). All in all a good compond.

phera max is decent as well as its more of a bulking compond with a good libido boost. 7-10 pounds (2-4 lean mass) in 4 weeks.

If you want to do a sweet PH cycle do 3weeks of phera and then 3 weeks of Superdrol (mdrol is the clone). this is killer and you will blow up and keep it all.

To me Superdrol is the most underrated compound in the AAS community. Think of it as Drol without the water weight. 10-15 pounds of the nicest mass you will ever gain. So why not run this shit all the time? Main reason is you feel like shit and your lipids are at very dangerous levels.

true story... a friend of mine has run three cycles of SD this year and has gained 35 pounds of dry mass. i still cannot believe that he did this with this compound. granted he was new to consistent lifting and diet, it is still a major accomplishment. he looks like a new man and is just as lean than when he started.

 

[Dr.S]

SUS 500 was pretty good although i would think of it more like a cutting type compound. It made me lose weight and get really hard and strong. the weight loss was due to the AI (novedex xt clone). All in all a good compond.

phera max is decent as well as its more of a bulking compond with a good libido boost. 7-10 pounds (2-4 lean mass) in 4 weeks.

If you want to do a sweet PH cycle do 3weeks of phera and then 3 weeks of Superdrol (mdrol is the clone). this is killer and you will blow up and keep it all.

To me Superdrol is the most underrated compound in the AAS community. Think of it as Drol without the water weight. 10-15 pounds of the nicest mass you will ever gain. So why not run this shit all the time? Main reason is you feel like shit and your lipids are at very dangerous levels.

true story... a friend of mine has run three cycles of SD this year and has gained 35 pounds of dry mass. i still cannot believe that he did this with this compound. granted he was new to consistent lifting and diet, it is still a major accomplishment. he looks like a new man and is just as lean than when he started.

What would be your reasoning for running 3 weeks of each, rather than 4-6 weeks of one? Aren't they both hard on the liver, or just the Phera? I always felt like shit on A-Bombs, but I'm sure a lot of that was from water retention (on the other hand I felt pretty decent on d-bol even with all the water )

How did you feel on the Novedex XT? Seems a lot of these kids using the PH (or pro-steroids) are SERM crazy and make it seem like you'll never get an erection again until You use Tamoxifen after PH's...

any experience with Epistane? sorry for all the questions ....thanks

 

[Beta]

epistane gave me the least sides of anything that ive ever used. something to be said for that in the ph arena, thats for sure

 

[Dog-Slime]

Epistane is decent. Halodrol is great. There is a combo PH called Halo-E and I haven't tried it but I bet it rocks ass. Anyways to the thread starter do not run epistane during/as pct. It WILL shut you down and anyone that uses it for pct is a dumbass.

 

[dragonfire101]

Thing is you have several companies selling the same thing, but certain brands people are seeing and saying they get better results. There are like 4-5 different compamies that have superdol, but which one really works the best. What companies product work the best for what specific prohormone compound is what you reall need to know. Anyone care to give what brand superdrol they like or is suppos eto be the best. I have friends that spend $300 a month on prohormones,crazy.

 

[Liphted]

Thing is you have several companies selling the same thing, but certain brands people are seeing and saying they get better results. There are like 4-5 different compamies that have superdol, but which one really works the best. What companies product work the best for what specific prohormone compound is what you reall need to know. Anyone care to give what brand superdrol they like or is suppos eto be the best. I have friends that spend $300 a month on prohormones,crazy.

I'd like to hear some feedback on this as well.

 

[gfactor]

Ive tried a superdrol clone last year.... I gained 20 pounds and kept about 15. My diet was well in check. I could of used another compound for greater results but I didn't know any better.

 

[marooned]

How did you feel on the Novedex XT? Seems a lot of these kids using the PH (or pro-steroids) are SERM crazy and make it seem like you'll never get an erection again until You use Tamoxifen after PH's...

On a mg for mg basis Pros are some of the strongest compounds ever released. M1-T is strong enough to shut you down totally 4-5 days after starting a cycle if you are only using that. If you use enough to get good gains you will have sides to deal with and need real PCT to keep the gains. The sides will include raised liver values, high BP, high lipid profiles, and maybe Gyno. For that reason I would not start any pros or AAS without having a good supply of Nolva on hand. Also having bloodwork done is very important for regular use of Pros or AAS. I think for estrogen the best OTC stuff is going to contain ATD which will have a little side itself, it will kill your libido. I have used several Pros with good results and more sides than most AAS I have used.

M-1T by Legal Gear, still have 3 bottles
1-AD by ErgoPharm, still have 3 bottles
Oxavar by Gaspari
SUS500 by G.E.T., just bought 3 bottles

 

[Ashop]

M1T and Superdrol worked and worked well but they were bonafide AAS,,,not prohormones.

 

[tom123]

ok im gonna be really ignorant here as i havent researched pro-hormones, but do they supress your hpta like steroids???

whats the advantage over steroids in a non-sales-bullshit way??

thanks

 

[Dog-Slime]

ok im gonna be really ignorant here as i havent researched pro-hormones, but do they supress your hpta like steroids???

whats the advantage over steroids in a non-sales-bullshit way??

thanks

Yes. Pro-hormones like steroids will cause suppression. Like with steroids some will totally suppress and a few will cause hardly any suppression but a PCT is ALWAYS needed after any cycle of steroids or pro-hormones.

 

[KillerStack]

ok im gonna be really ignorant here as i havent researched pro-hormones, but do they supress your hpta like steroids???

whats the advantage over steroids in a non-sales-bullshit way??

thanks

The ones discussed in this thread aren't any less AAS than Dianabol or Anadrol. So yes, they will suppress the HPTA to varying degrees.

The term "pro-hormone" is a bit of a misnomer as well, since gear like Anadrol could be argued to be pro-hormones as well (converts to active metabolites). Many of the compounds previously sold as pro-hormones are now classified as AAS by the government.

 

[tom123]

thanks guys, are they cheaper than gear then?

and are they 17AA like steroid orals? (liver toxic)

 

[shoestring]

Cheaper, no. Liver toxic, yes. 17aa yes sveral are, phera,superdrol,m1t,epistane, etc. , etc., etc... But some are not, sus 500 is not for example.

 

[Dr.S]

Yes. Pro-hormones like steroids will cause suppression. Like with steroids some will totally suppress and a few will cause hardly any suppression but a PCT is ALWAYS needed after any cycle of steroids or pro-hormones.

Using supps and eating healthy during and after a cycle are important-- adding supps for the liver and prostate become more important, but if you mean serms, ai, and such (Arimed, Nolv, Clomid)-- I disagree. It depends on what type, and how much, gear one is using. I spent some time reading a bunch of threads on Anabolic Minds and it seems there are a lot of kids on that board (btw-- I'm not ripping on anyone in their early 20's, but most of us older folk know experience is the best teacher--- sometimes in a painful way )

PCT drugs can sometimes cause more problems than gear itself--- I would never, under any circumstances, use Clomid again. These drugs are powerful and some vets even think it's best to let your body recover "naturally".

Regarding the prohormones/pro-steroids---it seems some of these really are bona fide AAS.....it's kind of strange considering how vilified gear has become that you can buy them anywhere, yet "real" gear can get you thrown in jail--- I'm partially excited to know there are legal "options", but a bit leery to think high school kids are using Superdrol, Sus500, and similar compounds