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Neurotransmitters all messed up.

Yes you will definitely have to keep us posted iv been researching this very heavily recently , do you have any idea of what you THINK might have caused this issue with you ? If so what compounds/ideas do you think it was. Im hoping theres some kind of "reset" button after taking some kind of supplement or something because I for sure as hell don't want to have to take some kind of drug to combat this for the rest of my life lol.

I think what caused the issue is the steroids and ancillaries. I mean the clomid and nolvadex are cancer drugs. The benefit outweighs the risk...for cancer patients. Even prior to cycles I used everything I could get off the shelves, NO xplode, NITRIX, creatine, anything. My heart palpitations started about two years ago when I got some wacky pills from a canadian site called danabal.com or some shit like that. I was so smart that I stopped that stuff and got the real stuff lol. I think the rest button might actually be time. This doctor and I have been pretty damn thorough in what we've tried, and what we've tested. He had me taking some light doses of t4 for a little while, didn't touch my symptoms. Caffeine is the only thing that helps. I see the doc on friday for my b-vitamin injections. I'm going to talk about all these things with him, maybe try testing some more basic things like the vitamins and minerals, and if everything still tests normal I think I'm going to abstain completely from all supplements for a long time.
 
What could be a natural cause of your prolactin being high?

I've read natural causes can be stress, and waking up. Prolactin is always highest upon waking supposedly, and I think all my tests were in the morning. Damn testing...

try googling your question, it'll probably have more answers then me.
 
Man give me a little Wine and I can get too rambling...Can't I?.... Geez

I'm assuming all of this manifested during or after your cycle, and this hasn't been a lifelong issue?

If these "Neuroendocrine dysfunction" occurred post cycle then the possibilities may be directed towards the Key Sex hormones you altered Testosterone, Estrogens as a whole E1, E2 and E3, Prolactin ect. We all have a natural hormonal set point with each and everyone of our Endogenous hormones,you mentioned you and your Physician have checked these hormones and feel they are ok? Again, are they within your natural set point? You didn't have labs before hand too reference back too, so no body knows what your TT, FT, TSH,T3,T4, rT3, FT3 ect, ect. Working with your physician in order to modulate you back too your natural set point is very challenging, it took me about Two years of being on HRT to where I feel normal again. Remember, Once you manipulate one hormone others try too create balance too stay in a state of Homeostasis, Continual Stimulation or staying at Supraphysiological levels for an extended period of time will inevitably down regulate down stream hormones. Example ; Epinephrine quickly reduces histamine levels. Long-term elevations of histamines can deplete the body’s supply of epinephrine. This same applies too nutritional levels, It's known that calcium inhibits Iron Absorption, So if one is anemic one should avoid calcium enriched foods during Iron enriched foods or supplementation. The list goes on and on. Have you checked into magnesium deficiency? A lot of Athletes tend too be Magnesium deficient or borderline low, Urinary Magnesium is the preferred method of checking Mag. Serum only shows a very small percentage of True Magnesium levels, Magnesium like B12 plays a role in our Neurology well-being.

These are suggestions I'm trying to point out too you, as there could be hundred's of cause of why you feel the way you do, it's narrowing it down that's the challenge, as your aware.

Good luck, hopefully you find your answer soon.

Here's another Physician that's well versed in Neuroendocrine health

**broken link removed**

Thanks so much for the post, awesome information. We haven't checked my magnesium levels, I think this could be a last check before I abstain from all supplements. I do take a magnesium supplement as I've read our adrenals function off magnesium. I've also read it can take up to a year or two for magnesium to be restore. I've been using magnesium oil and magnesium pills to try feeling better, but haven't tested my levels.

Thanks a lot for the input, I appreciate the help more than I can say. :D
 
Thanks so much for the post, awesome information. We haven't checked my magnesium levels, I think this could be a last check before I abstain from all supplements. I do take a magnesium supplement as I've read our adrenals function off magnesium. I've also read it can take up to a year or two for magnesium to be restore. I've been using magnesium oil and magnesium pills to try feeling better, but haven't tested my levels.

Thanks a lot for the input, I appreciate the help more than I can say. :D

Did you ask your doc if you might have Addisons Disease , or another recogized type of adrenal fatigue known as Adrenal Insufficiency ?
 
Wait your prolactin level was high and your MD wanted to prescribe an antidepressant???

Your doc wasn't interested in checking for a prolactin secreting tumor? I'd find a new doctor. Your problems could be caused by a million different things but I would definitely investigate that.

I would shop around for a new MD...ask friends for suggestions. My wifes was prescribed an antidepressant for her symptoms...Doc said her TSH of 7 (with FT3/FT4 below normal range) was normal and she was just depressed.
I sent her to my doc who immediately treated her hypothyroidism and now she feels great. So I highly recommend a second opinion!!!

Also how is your sleep? You could always have a sleep study done to R/O sleep apnea or RLS.

Best of luck
 
This is such an awesome reply. Someone who has had what I'm going through and came out of it, NATURALLY. So cool. I really appreciate you taking the time to write about this, it totally gives me hope, and it would sure save a lot of money! :)

So you quit taking all supps huh? Even the tyrosine? I felt great today for about one hour after taking a gram of tyrosine and a strong cup of coffee...but I think your right. Let the body heal on its own and quit putting stuff in it. I'm gonna give it a go I do believe.

By the way the MAO the doc is giving me is a tincture of passiflora and hypericum, i think those are fancy words for st johns wart and passion flower.

How do you feel about the b vitamin shots? Should i quit that too?

Yes my friend, I came out of it and the biggest factor was that I stopped taking anything but a good quality food.

St. John Wart increases serotonin levels. This isn't a good thing either beacuse your receptors get downregulated. That's why people that roll on ecstasy avoid this supp for atleast a week before the experience so they wouuld feel happier during the roll. Serotnin is also responsible for you sleep and mood.

Vitamin B shots are ok but you have to be carefull to not overdo them. If your doc is administering them I think you are ok.

This won't be easy but you will make it. I don't want to sugar coat it. First 2 weeks are going to be the worst. You will have exreme brain fog, feel tired and unmotivated and on top of this depressed, very depressed. But after 2 week mark, I give you my word, you will start feeling better. And at about 1 month mark, your old self will emerge and you will start getting happy about smallest things, like getting your groceris. Your emotions will become real again and the best thing is when depression goes away and mood swings are no more and youy will forget about forgetfulness.

Important note: do not take any stimulants, coffee. Tea is ok but not too strong.

If you pray, ask God to pull you through this. You know how I quit rec drugs years ago? By miracle! One time I was driving to my regular dealer to get another fix and that was my last money. On my way there, shaking and puking, I started talking out loud with God just like i would have a regular conversation at the bar. I said: "God, I am so tired of this, I was so stupid getting into this to begin with and I want to quit. If you think I am still woth something please give me strength to forget about high." I don't know how this is possible but after that, drugs had no pleasant effect on me and I became happier when I am sober. Don't even like alcohol anymore. So moral of the story - don't hesitate to ask God for help.

Anyways, sorry for a long post and my stupid story, but I just feel obligated to help others because at one point I needed and received that help.

God bless you all,

TT
 
My friend,

Drop all the supplements. I had exactly the same symptoms as you minus extensive bloodwork. I just had regular CBP, according to which I was healthy.

1) What MAO inhibitor does? It inhibits Monoamine Oxidase. MAO will oxidase your neurotransmitter (break them down, leaving H2O or H2O2 and h2o2 is hydrogen peroxide and toxic to the brain cells) So MAO inhibitor increases the amount of floating and available for reuptake dopamine, serotonin etc.

2) You also take tyrosin which is a precursor to dopamine. So you have more readily available dopamine.

3) Increased dopamine and decreased enzyme that breaks it down results in overabundanse of dopamine.

4) Overabundanse of dopamine results in ***DECREASED RECEPTOR ACTIVITY*** This, I want you to take home, becasue even if your tests show X amount of Neurotransmitters it doesn't mean those NT's doing jack shit becasue receptor won't accept them. That's something like when you were taking anabolics and didn't have same results as your friend. Your receptors are shut down. When somene is screaming at you, naturaly you tend to cover your ears because there is too much stress on your ear drums. You have to reverse this process to when you can barely hear someone you naturaly tend to turn your ear towards that person in order to pick up vibration waves.

5) Why do you think you have such high numbers on your test? Those hormones are not stimulating hormones. So it means that you are not shut down. Example: If your Thyroid works ok producing enough t3, you TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) will be let's say 2. Now if you are lacking t3, your TSH will be much higher, 5-7.

6) Before your body used to function normally on X amount of hormones/NT's. Now after your receptors are downregulated, your body needs XXX amount of hormones for the same response. And abnormal amount of ONE hormone/nt will weck the harmony in your system.

Back in the old days I was abusing all kinds of heavy rec drugs. After I quit that and started working out. Once in a while I had this flashback of apathy, depression, no motivation. So I started supplementing with stablon, cerebrolisyn, l-deprenyl, l-dopa etc. It was a fix, I started feeling better, much better, but it was a short fix. After a year I needed larger doses to have an edge. I liked it, it was like being on amphetamines, sharp, quick but then my body got used to it and this edge just became normal. When I quit all those supps, I went natural route with tyrosine, green tea extract, etc. Wellp, I got so lethargic I would stay in bed for 2 days and would get up only to piss and eat. It lasted a month, after that I started having extreme headaches ( I think due to NT disbalance). Only after that, I decided to quit all pills alltogether, and wouldn't put anything in my body unless it was food. Slowly but surely I leveled out and now I am back in the gym, all natural. My motivation and overall feeling is like back when I was 16 (i'm 29 now). I am getting out of house to socialize, I can't even hardly read news online because I feel like i'd better do something around the house. I don't even drink coffee now.

Moral of the story is: Drop all the bullshit. Drugs and supplements got you in this and to get out of it you need to go back to the time before the cause. LOL, kind of like Windows System Restore to an earlier point. Our bodies are amazing machines, the best. Give it a shot and your body will normalize itself. It might take you a month, year or 2 years, we are all different but eventually it will be ok. Just don't get on your body's way. Let it do it's job.

As a motivatioanl kick I will add this: I have some friends that were abusing chrytal meth for 10+ years. They are clean now, it was a bitch for most of them. One recovered in six month to were he just started moving beyond his house territory. Another one took 2 years. But now it has been 5 years for them and they feel and look normal. All natural!!! What they did was a nuclear war on their brains but they recovered and so will you.

Have faith and God Bless you all,

TT

When I had to go through basic in the military I stopped all the bullshit, and just went through everyday life even after basic throughout my tech school, and yet it was still there and really slowed me down , I mean I don't get it , you would think that this total reset in life would have stopped this but it didn't.
 
Wait your prolactin level was high and your MD wanted to prescribe an antidepressant???

Your doc wasn't interested in checking for a prolactin secreting tumor? I'd find a new doctor. Your problems could be caused by a million different things but I would definitely investigate that.

I would shop around for a new MD...ask friends for suggestions. My wifes was prescribed an antidepressant for her symptoms...Doc said her TSH of 7 (with FT3/FT4 below normal range) was normal and she was just depressed.
I sent her to my doc who immediately treated her hypothyroidism and now she feels great. So I highly recommend a second opinion!!!

Also how is your sleep? You could always have a sleep study done to R/O sleep apnea or RLS.

Best of luck

Thanks for the reply. It was my previous doc who wanted to prescribe an anti depressant, but he also wanted to check my pituitary. I don't have insurance so I'm out of pocket. I've already spent a few grand trying to figure this shit out. So I went to a naturopath who has me on tinctures trying to strengthen adrenals and lessen MAO. Neither of which seem to be helping. I'm gonna keep on searching for my answers tho.
 
Yes my friend, I came out of it and the biggest factor was that I stopped taking anything but a good quality food.

St. John Wart increases serotonin levels. This isn't a good thing either beacuse your receptors get downregulated. That's why people that roll on ecstasy avoid this supp for atleast a week before the experience so they wouuld feel happier during the roll. Serotnin is also responsible for you sleep and mood.

Vitamin B shots are ok but you have to be carefull to not overdo them. If your doc is administering them I think you are ok.

This won't be easy but you will make it. I don't want to sugar coat it. First 2 weeks are going to be the worst. You will have exreme brain fog, feel tired and unmotivated and on top of this depressed, very depressed. But after 2 week mark, I give you my word, you will start feeling better. And at about 1 month mark, your old self will emerge and you will start getting happy about smallest things, like getting your groceris. Your emotions will become real again and the best thing is when depression goes away and mood swings are no more and youy will forget about forgetfulness.

Important note: do not take any stimulants, coffee. Tea is ok but not too strong.

If you pray, ask God to pull you through this. You know how I quit rec drugs years ago? By miracle! One time I was driving to my regular dealer to get another fix and that was my last money. On my way there, shaking and puking, I started talking out loud with God just like i would have a regular conversation at the bar. I said: "God, I am so tired of this, I was so stupid getting into this to begin with and I want to quit. If you think I am still woth something please give me strength to forget about high." I don't know how this is possible but after that, drugs had no pleasant effect on me and I became happier when I am sober. Don't even like alcohol anymore. So moral of the story - don't hesitate to ask God for help.

Anyways, sorry for a long post and my stupid story, but I just feel obligated to help others because at one point I needed and received that help.

God bless you all,

TT

I really appreciate your help. I'm definitely going to stop taking supplements of all kinds. I'll quit caffeine and alcohol too. I'm getting insurance soon so I think I'll try running more tests to rule out anything serious. I have a feeling doctors will say everything is normal, even though I have symptoms of adrenal fatigue/ hypothyroidism. I appreciate your input, it gives me hope and motivation.
God bless you too
 
Question for Stewie and TT:

Does long time use of preworkout supps with lots of stims (caffeine, dmaa, pea, dopamine, tyrosine etc ) can damage adrenals?
 
Are adrenal saliva tests accurate?
 
Thanks for the reply. It was my previous doc who wanted to prescribe an anti depressant, but he also wanted to check my pituitary. I don't have insurance so I'm out of pocket. I've already spent a few grand trying to figure this shit out. So I went to a naturopath who has me on tinctures trying to strengthen adrenals and lessen MAO. Neither of which seem to be helping. I'm gonna keep on searching for my answers tho.

Please ask your naturopath about the prolactin. It's usually treated with dopamine agonist (eg, bromo, caber, prami)

Good luck
 
I hope all the above posters have helped and or given you some great advice for you to talk over with your doc.


Another thing you may want to look into is Sleep Apnea.

Feeling foggy and tired all day are symptoms of S.A.

S.A. can also mess with your hormones or at least cause problems with trying to recover proper hormone levels.

Im going in for a sleep study next month.

From talking to other people who have be diagnosed with S.A. they have said its a life changer when they get the CPAP machine.

A full nights sleep is a great asset and can affect your health/life in many many ways.
 
Question for Stewie and TT:

Does long time use of preworkout supps with lots of stims (caffeine, dmaa, pea, dopamine, tyrosine etc ) can damage adrenals?

Yes and no my friend,

I believe adrenals are not damaged (physically) by stims but they do get worn out just like pancreas. We all have certain limit (stores) of "juice". But stims definately deplete them faster. It's like flooring the gas peddal in your car. It picks up speed faster but you drain your gas tank faster as well.

Addison's desease is usually a secondary desease and developes usually in people with diabetes, hypertension etc. Adrenal fatigue on the other hand is temporarily low on stress hormones. AF isn't really recognized by doctors yet, but overall medical community is certain it exists. That's why its very rare to be diagnosed with adrenal fatigue.

In any way, people that have symptoms of AF should stop and reavaluate the situation. It can be stress at work, stress in personal life, unwarranted use of stims or other supps or simply overtraining.

Stress hormones like cortisol aren't bad. They are needed to keep inflamtion down, water control etc. And the best way (i've read it in multple sources) is to keep stress hormones from spiking rapidly because they will fall rapidly.

Dukkitdalaw also has a very valid point. Sleep apnea becomes like vicious cycle for people with AF.

God Bless,

TT
 
When I had to go through basic in the military I stopped all the bullshit, and just went through everyday life even after basic throughout my tech school, and yet it was still there and really slowed me down , I mean I don't get it , you would think that this total reset in life would have stopped this but it didn't.

I am sorry to hear that you are still experiancing those symptoms. Is it possible that some other condition is effecting you? Remember that it is not only due to neurotransmitters but due to adrenals as well because NT's like dopamine epinephrine, norephineprine effect adrenals. Constant stress can have negative effect on adrenals as well as other underlying physical issues.

Have you ever had a bactirial urinary tract infection?

God bless,

TT
 
Please ask your naturopath about the prolactin. It's usually treated with dopamine agonist (eg, bromo, caber, prami)

Good luck

Thanks for the input, we got the prolactin under control. I should probably test it again to make sure it doesn't come back, but our last test showed it at a 4.
 
Question for Stewie and TT:

Does long time use of preworkout supps with lots of stims (caffeine, dmaa, pea, dopamine, tyrosine etc ) can damage adrenals?

Damn dude is that pic you? Nice work.

Yeah I was thinking that these things can cause damage or at least down regulation, so im abstaining for a long time. I know the pre workout supps have reccomendations on the label that tell you to cycle the product, so Im guessing long term damage is possible.
 
I hope all the above posters have helped and or given you some great advice for you to talk over with your doc.


Another thing you may want to look into is Sleep Apnea.

Feeling foggy and tired all day are symptoms of S.A.

S.A. can also mess with your hormones or at least cause problems with trying to recover proper hormone levels.

Im going in for a sleep study next month.

From talking to other people who have be diagnosed with S.A. they have said its a life changer when they get the CPAP machine.

A full nights sleep is a great asset and can affect your health/life in many many ways.

Thanks a lot for the reply. A sleep study is definitely in my future plans. Im waiting for my insurance to kick in, should be within a month. In the mean time I'm abstainign from all supplements. If that doesn't make me feel better in about a month, I'm doing the sleep study. Im starting to think poor sleep could definitely be a factor in this. I never seem to sleep deeply, i wake up a lot at night and I'm always extremely tired in the mornings.
 
I am sorry to hear that you are still experiancing those symptoms. Is it possible that some other condition is effecting you? Remember that it is not only due to neurotransmitters but due to adrenals as well because NT's like dopamine epinephrine, norephineprine effect adrenals. Constant stress can have negative effect on adrenals as well as other underlying physical issues.

Have you ever had a bactirial urinary tract infection?

God bless,

TT

Nope I definitely dont think I ever had this, I dont think it could be sleep apnea because I usually sleep somewhat decent ( I get up about 2-3 x a night to piss , thats about it) and usually get about 8 hours of sleep.
 

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