i cant find the study i was talking about on lantus (or levemir, i dont remember) right now, i thought it was easy to find via simple googling but i seem to be missing the proper buzzwords for pubmed.Actually, do you have links? Google hasn't been helpful.
I'm a type 2 diabetic who is just about off of Lantus, so I'm curious.
Well for those in the US without a script unfortunately Hum/Nov-R is the only insulin that can be purchased OTC at the pharmacy.
I'd like to try Humalog, personally, but it's so much more of a pain in the ass to get ahold of.
I have a bunch of lantus im waiting to try...wanna get to mid single digits first. But the thing about these studies is alot of these diabetics eat like shit...I mean big time. The two diabetics that I get log and lantus from are both obese...they have these little caches of snacks hidden around their house with little debbie snack cakes and cookies and candy.To them of they take their insulin and metformin they feel they "deserve" a treat so they binge on these snacks a couple times a day. Eating like that probably has their insulin sensitivity wrecked pretty good.
But I would guess that someone following a strict bodybuilding diet with clean carbs and not too many could get away with using lantus a little longer than a normal diabetic who eats whatever they feel like eating. Not only that but exercise and weight lifitng and cardio will also serve to help insulin sensitivity. And with all the GDA's out there along with metformin lantus could probably be used for 4 weeks...atleast that is the basic protocol I have read from others like Mike Arnold...4 on 4 off.
And as far as log vs. R I read numerous reports of R being more anabolic than log so I gave it a shot and I definitely agree...I got fatter quicker on log than I did with R and R did seem to put more quality size on than log did.
I'm referring to its relative action level at the one hour mark. Hum r has a bigger under the curve area than log. This would me greater nutrient shuttling
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Most of the well respected slin guru's recommend log.milos sarcev a pioneer of insulin had me using humalog pre and post and i believe thats what he prefers his clients to use but he can make humalin R work if you can't get humalog, that being said he still prefers humalog
i cant find the study i was talking about on lantus (or levemir, i dont remember) right now, i thought it was easy to find via simple googling but i seem to be missing the proper buzzwords for pubmed.
i do remember that it was done on cultured cells (in vitro) and showed an increase of insulin resistance by 50-70% or so after just a single use of continuous insulin administration...
this is a good starting point though.
Insulin resistance in multiple tissues in patients with type 1 diabetes mellitus on long-term continuous subcutaneous insulin infusion therapy. - PubMed - NCBI
something along the lines of "continuous insulin administration insulin sensitivity", dont have much time to seek now though, ill look later
Seems that metformin also has been shown in some studies lately to have other benefits to it as well. I'm pretty intrigued by it.
On my off days from slin and higher carbs, I'll usually take 500mg (half a 1g pill) 2-3 times that day. I feel much fuller which is nice to have when not using slin that day.
Yes I've heard of its health benefits as wel. But what about what I heard about something about it affecting androgen receptor ? Or is that something that guys like us using aas shouldn't be worried about ? Also is met easily available or is it script ?
I've mainly done just log pre. Last month or so started log pre and pwo. Last year I woudk do 5wk on 3 off. I only have ever used it pre and only train days of course. I think by taking off the days u dnt train u can run it longer without desensitizing. Im no expert but this is what I believe. I'm also curiosi about metaformin or berberine for those off wks as I've heard works good.
Mike Arnold just started a large thread about exactly that. You may want to look into that?
CG
You have a link to that thread brother?
I have never seen a study saying met can benefit androgen receptors. I would like to see this as I have only heard of it negatively impacting them.It has shown to affect androgen receptors and in one study at least - in a good way. Metformin has been shown to inhibit IGF-IR upregulation in prostate cancer cells by androgens which interferes in the progression of the cancer cells' activity.
As AAS users, we should be more concerned with prostate health since androgens like DHT have been linked not only to benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH) but also prostate cancer. So, AAS users should naturally have no shortage of these androgens like DHT in circulation - essentially increasing the likelihood of developing issues.
Typically, antiandrogens have been used in the fight against prostate cancer cells, but they do not inhibit androgen receptor dependent upregulation of the cells. So, in this instance, the combination of antiandrogens along with metformin may help to work in concert to fight cancer causing an anti-tumor effect in a sense.
Basically, I think it's a little bit of prostate insurance to use it if one uses AAS.
Metformin/Glucophage is a Merck pharmaceutical and typically requires a script. Although some careful research and checking out sponsors on the vastness of the internet should prove fruitful in obtaining it.
I have never seen a study saying met can benefit androgen receptors. I would like to see this as I have only heard of it negatively impacting them.
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I know that metformin increases the ease of which cells accept glucose from the bloodstream by lowering glucose production by the liver. It also signals the pancreas to excrete more insulin.same here. imo metformin is a "cutting drug"...
it activates so many pathways beneficial towards fat loss but detrimental towards muscle growth.
it also decreases carbohydrate absorption by ~30 (iirc) %.
its really nothing you wanna use on bulks.
IGF-1R is a receptor activated by IGF-1. It mediates IGF-1. This is true that it's not limited to prostate cells (lung and breast tissue cancers have shown similar studies). Your point is well taken, however my input was only using metformin to assist with insulin sensitivity (which suffers even more if using GH).downregulating IGF is not a good thing either, and the downregulation certainly wont be tissue specific to prostate cells...
It has shown to affect androgen receptors and in one study at least - in a good way. Metformin has been shown to inhibit IGF-IR upregulation in prostate cancer cells by androgens which interferes in the progression of the cancer cells' activity.
As AAS users, we should be more concerned with prostate health since androgens like DHT have been linked not only to benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH) but also prostate cancer. So, AAS users should naturally have no shortage of these androgens like DHT in circulation - essentially increasing the likelihood of developing issues.
Typically, antiandrogens have been used in the fight against prostate cancer cells, but they do not inhibit androgen receptor dependent upregulation of the cells. So, in this instance, the combination of antiandrogens along with metformin may help to work in concert to fight cancer causing an anti-tumor effect in a sense.
Basically, I think it's a little bit of prostate insurance to use it if one uses AAS.
Metformin/Glucophage is a Merck pharmaceutical and typically requires a script. Although some careful research and checking out sponsors on the vastness of the internet should prove fruitful in obtaining it.