Using strong orals during workout days only to increase progressive overload.

[Flex500]

Personally, I think this shines when you are a low dose person. If I was on even a mild cycle of 500mgs - 750mgs of test a week I'm not sure adding in an oral 3 days a week (or 4) makes me feel a whole lot unless the dose is decent.

Now that I take like 70-160mgs of test max a week (literally now 160 is like blasting my balls off and my definition of the munzer death cycle)l I can definitely tell.

I'm literally taking 75mgs of test ever 4 days and just 10mgs of dianbol on training days and I notice improved training and fullness on less than 150 grams of carbs a day. I'm sure if I upped this to 25mgs it would be incredibly pronounced. I think that is where this also shines because you could theoretically do that forever getting that small boost that adds up over time but isn't hitting health parameters.

I've tried it and on ever 400mgs test / 200 tren I really didn't notice a chance adding anadrol at 50mgs on training days. I think that much test and tren it was just I didn't feel or notice anything extra. Now though with such low test and no other anabolic driver you can feel a very low dose of an oral.

 

[Muay Thai]

Personally, I think this shines when you are a low dose person. If I was on even a mild cycle of 500mgs - 750mgs of test a week I'm not sure adding in an oral 3 days a week (or 4) makes me feel a whole lot unless the dose is decent.

Now that I take like 70-160mgs of test max a week (literally now 160 is like blasting my balls off and my definition of the munzer death cycle)l I can definitely tell.

I'm literally taking 75mgs of test ever 4 days and just 10mgs of dianbol on training days and I notice improved training and fullness on less than 150 grams of carbs a day. I'm sure if I upped this to 25mgs it would be incredibly pronounced. I think that is where this also shines because you could theoretically do that forever getting that small boost that adds up over time but isn't hitting health parameters.

I've tried it and on ever 400mgs test / 200 tren I really didn't notice a chance adding anadrol at 50mgs on training days. I think that much test and tren it was just I didn't feel or notice anything extra. Now though with such low test and no other anabolic driver you can feel a very low dose of an oral.

what compounds is this applicable? drol, dbol, var?

 

[Flex500]

what compounds is this applicable? drol, dbol, var?

I've only done it with low dose dianabol and anadrol. 5-10mgs of dianabol and i've also tried 10-20 of anadrol. I'm sure it could apply to other things as well.

 

[headtrainer]

I take my orals pre workout as w nest practice but I've never felt them or blown away my logbook and said " I lifted more today than I did had I not taken drol". So imo this would be a waste. I view them as any other aas. Never have had bad sides from orals the only time was when I combined drol and tren bott at high dosages, but I was also pushing the scale too hard at the time.

Yeas, Test, Tren and anadrol will crank up your blood pressure fast!

 

[headtrainer]

In the past anadrol or superdrol gave me cosmic gains in strength, e.g. after 14 days of use, I raised 25-45lbs more in sets for the same or more number of repetitions, but now for a last 2-3 years orals do not give me any gains in strength, so I do not use them anymore

Adding anadrol always gives me additional strength gains. Why do you think your strength no longer increases when taking them?

 

[Tomgrass]

I don’t understand what you mean by taking orals every other day won’t build REAL strength. Whether you run a string oral like anadrol “every day” or “every other day”, you’ll lose the strength you get from it because the intracellular water inside your muscles will leave.

Anadrol strenght does not come from water it comes from direct stimulation of cns

 

[luki7788]

But the extra muscle fullness from Anadrol is still there right?

fullness yes but overall I am much weaker than when I was 26-30 years old even though I have much more muscle mass than I was then.

I think there are 2 things to it:
1 - used to transfer only the load from point A to B, now I try to control each repetition, not to use momentum, etc.
2 - over time, the increase in muscle mass made it impossible for me to position my body in an optimal lifting lever - I cannot, for example, make a good bridge for bench press, etc.

 

[headtrainer]

Anadrol strenght does not come from water it comes from direct stimulation of cns

With hormones like anavar I always thought the extra strength came from direct stimulation of the CNS. But with aromatizing hormones like anadrol I thought the increase in strength gains came from both an increase in intracellular water and an improvement in neuromuscular efficiency through an increased myelin synthesis at peripheral nervous system site.

 

[headtrainer]

fullness yes but overall I am much weaker than when I was 26-30 years old even though I have much more muscle mass than I was then.

I think there are 2 things to it:
1 - used to transfer only the load from point A to B, now I try to control each repetition, not to use momentum, etc.
2 - over time, the increase in muscle mass made it impossible for me to position my body in an optimal lifting lever - I cannot, for example, make a good bridge for bench press, etc.

I’m also much weaker than I used to be. My loss of strength is from arthritis and tendonosis.

 

[jaxino]

Many of us only workout 3-4 days per week. Likewise, most of us feel lethargic and develop high blood pressure within just a few days of taking strong orals like (anadrol, superdrol, and dbol) every day. Therefore, it makes sense to take strong orals only on workout days (e.g., MWF) a couple of hours pre workout to increase progressive overload—which leads to muscle hypertrophy. If we can lift heavier loads due to the extra cellular water in our muscles from taking orals on just MWF—then it will build more muscle over time. After all, we build the most muscles when we first start training because it’s when we make the most strength gains.

I think that orals prewo are just a waste.


IMHO the better thing would be to add orals+tren near the end of a mesocycle when you are stalling on progressive overload and basically you are almost in overreaching state.

At this point you add 3-6w 50 TrenA+20 SD or 50 TrenA+50-75 Anadrol ED and break through plateaus, then jump on a deload week, because you pushed so hard your body that you need to rest.

Unfortunately i still have to try this because i am an asshole and i never deload....

 

[BLang]

Understand your point but I the orals aren’t building “real strength,” if that makes any sense.

I’m assuming u wouldn’t take orals pre-WO year round, and therefore strength would dip post blast. John Jewett just had a discussion about this on his podcast (pretty sure it was the Kuba episode). He’s also just not an oral guy to begin with, but u get my point. I feel like orals are MOST BENEFICIAL in a hard cutting/precontest phase.

Will all respect, I think this is a bit of an outdated mindset. I couldn't find John Jewett talk about it on the Kuba episode, but I'll keep looking. Def interesting to hear what he said exactly.

There's this mindset that orals are only "temporary gains" and only for "pre-contest/cosmetic" benefits. That comes from the fact that several of the most popular orals (winny, halo, etc) are very much in that category.

But, there's nothing inherent about an "oral" that makes it more or less "temporary" than any other steroid.

If you blast high levels of Test, or Primo, or EQ, or Deca, etc. you're going to be stronger than you will when you come down to a cruise dose. Why aren't you applying the same criteria to that?

The only thing fundamentally different with something like Var, Anadrol, Turinabol, etc. is the half-life and the fact that you may not want to run them for a significant period of time vs. most injectables. But the strength gains you see running them will absolutely assist in the accrual of muscle tissue that will be retained just as easily (or not) as from any other steroid.

 

[qbkilla]

Will all respect, I think this is a bit of an outdated mindset. I couldn't find John Jewett talk about it on the Kuba episode, but I'll keep looking. Def interesting to hear what he said exactly.

There's this mindset that orals are only "temporary gains" and only for "pre-contest/cosmetic" benefits. That comes from the fact that several of the most popular orals (winny, halo, etc) are very much in that category.

But, there's nothing inherent about an "oral" that makes it more or less "temporary" than any other steroid.

If you blast high levels of Test, or Primo, or EQ, or Deca, etc. you're going to be stronger than you will when you come down to a cruise dose. Why aren't you applying the same criteria to that?

The only thing fundamentally different with something like Var, Anadrol, Turinabol, etc. is the half-life and the fact that you may not want to run them for a significant period of time vs. most injectables. But the strength gains you see running them will absolutely assist in the accrual of muscle tissue that will be retained just as easily (or not) as from any other steroid.

I would say the argument would be the half life. If the strength gains were the reason for growth then wouldn't tne be as effective as only taking orals pre workout?

I've always thought orals we're best used when cutting to prevent muscle loss than when gaining because the temporary element.

Usually when I run an oral I drop an injectable (if I'm running two);or decrease dose if just running test. Then when I have to stop the oral I add back in an injectable or bump test back up so any gains aren't just temporary.

 

[BLang]

I would say the argument would be the half life. If the strength gains were the reason for growth then wouldn't tne be as effective as only taking orals pre workout?

Sure, why not? Either or both could work, with their own individual trade-offs/benefits/downsides, etc.

 

[Bio]

Using orals pre-workout and only on training days has been discussed quite a bit over the years.

 

[pistonpump]

I think if u take oral preworkout and workout 3-5 days a week there would be residual effect on the off days(despite shorter half lifes) but not as much stress. Pulsing method. I think it's beneficial on low dose cycles and for short runs to beat some plateaus. If taken at low dose and long periods w test base I see no difference from a injectable long cycle as far as muscle gain goes.

 

[totalrecomp]

Will all respect, I think this is a bit of an outdated mindset. I couldn't find John Jewett talk about it on the Kuba episode, but I'll keep looking. Def interesting to hear what he said exactly.

There's this mindset that orals are only "temporary gains" and only for "pre-contest/cosmetic" benefits. That comes from the fact that several of the most popular orals (winny, halo, etc) are very much in that category.

But, there's nothing inherent about an "oral" that makes it more or less "temporary" than any other steroid.

If you blast high levels of Test, or Primo, or EQ, or Deca, etc. you're going to be stronger than you will when you come down to a cruise dose. Why aren't you applying the same criteria to that?

The only thing fundamentally different with something like Var, Anadrol, Turinabol, etc. is the half-life and the fact that you may not want to run them for a significant period of time vs. most injectables. But the strength gains you see running them will absolutely assist in the accrual of muscle tissue that will be retained just as easily (or not) as from any other steroid.

I do think strong methylated orals significantly increase intra-cellular water and muscle glycogen to a much greater degree than injects. This leads to much of the "muscle" not really being contractile muscle and thus the reputation of easy come easy go gains with orals. In reality I think the muscle is just as easily retained as any gained with injects its just people think they gained more muscle than they did. You don't gain 10lbs of muscle in a week or two and you don't lose it that quick either.

 

[BLang]

I do think strong methylated orals significantly increase intra-cellular water and muscle glycogen to a much greater degree than injects. This leads to much of the "muscle" not really being contractile muscle and thus the reputation of easy come easy go gains with orals. In reality I think the muscle is just as easily retained as any gained with injects its just people think they gained more muscle than they did. You don't gain 10lbs of muscle in a week or two and you don't lose it that quick either.

100% agree and that's a great point, especially with Anadrol. Var and TBol do a great job of avoiding this effect.

 

[headtrainer]

Using orals pre-workout and only on training days has been discussed quite a bit over the years.

Bio, if you don’t mind me asking, what’s your thoughts on this subject matter?

 

[Bio]

Bio, if you don’t mind me asking, what’s your thoughts on this subject matter?

Unfortunately I'm not a good one to ask. I used orals along with injectables when I first started but then my go to was just Test and Deca. In my older age now, I can't handle orals daily. I can use, take Anadrol for instance, one on Monday and one on Thursday. Anything more than that and my stomach/digestion is all screwed up.

 

[alfresco]

Granted, I don't know shit from shinola about steroids, but what about Cheque Drops / Matenon?