MASS MONSTER DIETS

[tweezor]

The bigger the guys get, the lesser they also move around (clearly) so their NEAT goes down aswell. So some 290 lbs guy eating 5k kcal.. yea I buy that

 

[tweezor]

Also.. no one cares if someone eat 7k cal but getting fat as fuck. not impressive.. staying in good off season shape with abs and eating 7k, then its legit

 

[qbkilla]

I think these modern days of over-eating is retarded. The big-guts took off, the wide waists, etc.
The 70's guys never over-ate and looked fine. Nubret ate once a day...

I get it, times are different now. Doesnt mean its a good idea. (Organ straining, constant shitting, etc).

I agree with this. The recent thread on the liver king guy for example. Yeah he has a lowish bf, but the waist. He would be lean by body fat standards but shape wise? His mid section protrudes on all sides.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Force feeding is just part of the game.

Just like the ability to handle drugs is a skill set (maybe not skill set, but genetic propensity to handle is a better term), so is being able to eat.
There are tons of guys who COULD grow like weeds, but dont have the genetic ability to eat. And it hinders them hugely.
I have always had a large appetite and ive always been a semi-fatty lol If anything, i've had to retrain my metabolism to handle clean food and ALOT of it.
Eating 5-6k is one thing. But eating 5-6k of rice, potatoes, oats, chicken breast, etc is another.
Then do that for 10 years. There is a reason why you dont see big 250lb lean guys walking out of the gym every day.

The bigger the guys get, the lesser they also move around (clearly) so their NEAT goes down aswell. So some 290 lbs guy eating 5k kcal.. yea I buy that

You're forgetting that 4000 steps on a 290lb BBer is very different then a 290lb fat ass. The BBer is a furnace.
With that amount of muscle, regular NEAT is burning muuuch more than your average gym bro.
I remember Shelby eloquently said it once, "Muscle is the best fat burner."
Want to have a fast metabolism, have a ton of muscle. Just moooving around at that weight burns cals.
I remember listening to Jordan Peters say that. He basically had to limit his NEAT in his offseason because if he walked around more than 5k steps, he would start dropping weight like crazy. And this when when he was in that 5-7k calorie area already. Of course these are extreme mass monster examples.

 

[Elvia1023]

99 cent promotions whoppers/big macs/quarter pounders were big for me in college. I crushed that stuff even as a snack between classes.

My favorite though was our lifting crew hitting the gym hard and then going to an all you can eat BBQ restaurant dinner. We devoured chicken, ribs and a few pitchers of beer. Super fond memories of this period. Wish I could go back just once!

I have never been one for eating huge amounts of junk food. Although I used to go to the local Chinese buffet fairly regularly and would easily eat over 5k calories everytime. I have gone to Brazilian restaurants and go through over 1kg of meat as well. I went through a stage of eating double cheeseburgers from McDonalds as well. I would eat 4-6 double cheeseburgers (in about 5 mins) and I done that every few days for awhile. I have also ate about 15000 calories in one night before. That included 1kg of cashew butter

 

[gains4000]

Force feeding is just part of the game.

Just like the ability to handle drugs is a skill set (maybe not skill set, but genetic propensity to handle is a better term), so is being able to eat.
There are tons of guys who COULD grow like weeds, but dont have the genetic ability to eat. And it hinders them hugely.
I have always had a large appetite and ive always been a semi-fatty lol If anything, i've had to retrain my metabolism to handle clean food and ALOT of it.
Eating 5-6k is one thing. But eating 5-6k of rice, potatoes, oats, chicken breast, etc is another.
Then do that for 10 years. There is a reason why you dont see big 250lb lean guys walking out of the gym every day.




You're forgetting that 4000 steps on a 290lb BBer is very different then a 290lb fat ass. The BBer is a furnace.
With that amount of muscle, regular NEAT is burning muuuch more than your average gym bro.
I remember Shelby eloquently said it once, "Muscle is the best fat burner."
Want to have a fast metabolism, have a ton of muscle. Just moooving around at that weight burns cals.
I remember listening to Jordan Peters say that. He basically had to limit his NEAT in his offseason because if he walked around more than 5k steps, he would start dropping weight like crazy. And this when when he was in that 5-7k calorie area already. Of course these are extreme mass monster examples.

Agreed, Eating 6,000 dirty calories does not count in my opinion. i can easy eat 6k in 2 meals if you take me to fast food joint.

That huge bowl of 10oz chicken and 400g rice is way harder to get down than greasy fast food.

People also forget the energy it takes to chew so much chicken. My jaw gets so pumped it hurts.

 

[A50#]

I will disagree that you don't need 7-8000kcal to grow - some may weigh 300lbs for 5000kcal and some need 10000

I personally lose weight like crazy on 5000kcal, I need 6000kcal to maintain about 290lbs to grow I would have to eat much more

It wasn't until I hit 5500-6500 cals that I really seen my potential and made my biggest gains. Any time my size and mass gains sucked is when I wasn't eating enough.

 

[bellicose]

Yeah I also dont think food is the limiting factor. Actually caused more harm than good for me the in the past off season. Getting in 6500 cals consistently for the last 8 months and after getting bodyfat tested Im only 3kg heavier at the same bodyfat as last year. More food just created more insulin resistance and more digestive issues and im sure if I could have trained better with better sensitivity to food then I would have utilized the 5000 calories I should have been eating.

Really depends on the person. In my youth I was an ecto with a high metabolism and needed 5k calories just to get over 200lbs. At my peak I was around 8k calories and food was my limiting factor up to that point.
Now I’m almost 40 and 4K is what I need to maintain 240lbs

 

[claymore]

Any pro will confirm I use to out eat EVERYONE I’ll share just a tad, at my biggest I was consuming 6 meals a day. After every meal I’d eat these chocolate chip cookies that were 500 calories each so that’s 3,000 calories a day just for cookies, also drank a minimum of 1 1/2 gallons of RAW milk everyday. So just in and was consuming 5,400 calories a day

 

[headtrainer]

It does not take a huge calorie surplus to gain maximal muscle. Everyone’s metabolism and caloric requirements are different. There are genetic freaks who can consume upwards of 10,000 calories per day and gain maximal muscle. But many of us will get overly fat consuming that much regardless of what hormones we use. The end result for us is becoming insulin resistant and sick.

 

[qbkilla]

It does not take a huge calorie surplus to gain maximal muscle. Everyone’s metabolism and caloric requirements are different. There are genetic freaks who can consume upwards of 10,000 calories per day and gain maximal muscle. But many of us will get overly fat consuming that much regardless of what hormones we use. The end result for us is becoming insulin resistant and sick.

This was my experience. I can eat big, but adding more calories leads to a tiny bit more muscle and a ton of fat. I think AAS dosages and genetics play a big role in p ratio. For any just eating more will leave them with a tiny bit more muscle and a ton of fat.

 

[heavyhitter]

Any pro will confirm I use to out eat EVERYONE I’ll share just a tad, at my biggest I was consuming 6 meals a day. After every meal I’d eat these chocolate chip cookies that were 500 calories each so that’s 3,000 calories a day just for cookies, also drank a minimum of 1 1/2 gallons of RAW milk everyday. So just in and was consuming 5,400 calories a day

For years when I was younger and powerlifting I drank a gallon of milk and ate a pound of bacon every day in addition to my meals

 

[TheOtherOne55]

This was my experience. I can eat big, but adding more calories leads to a tiny bit more muscle and a ton of fat. I think AAS dosages and genetics play a big role in p ratio. For any just eating more will leave them with a tiny bit more muscle and a ton of fat.

Ive heard you say this multiple times on multiple threads....basically saying how anytime u tried to gain weight, you turned into a fat slob.
And i would be willing to bet you were just eating wayyy over what you thought u needed.

I have worked with guys who've given me the same excuse of "they just get fat." No, they are overeating. Pretty simple.
They THOUGHT their maintenance was 3500, so they were eating 4k-4.5k.
When in reality their maintenance was much lower.

You basically describe yourself as having endo genes....endos are actually GREAT at adding tissue, but the vast majority of them OVER EAT and therefore are eating hugely over what they NEED to grow. Tissue + fat is accruing. Just like some guys need that 1k over maintenance surplus, you just happened to need 250-300 and just convinced yourself you needed an extra 1k. Coaches can usually figure this out relatively quickly. You aren't a special case, you just had no idea what you were doing.

 

[danieltx]

Ive heard you say this multiple times on multiple threads....basically saying how anytime u tried to gain weight, you turned into a fat slob.
And i would be willing to bet you were just eating wayyy over what you thought u needed.

I have worked with guys who've given me the same excuse of "they just get fat." No, they are overeating. Pretty simple.
They THOUGHT their maintenance was 3500, so they were eating 4k-4.5k.
When in reality their maintenance was much lower.

You basically describe yourself as having endo genes....endos are actually GREAT at adding tissue, but the vast majority of them OVER EAT and therefore are eating hugely over what they NEED to grow. Tissue + fat is accruing. Just like some guys need that 1k over maintenance surplus, you just happened to need 250-300 and just convinced yourself you needed an extra 1k. Coaches can usually figure this out relatively quickly. You aren't a special case, you just had no idea what you were doing.

100% correct.

I'd bet it's not his diet that's the biggest problem, it's that he trains movements instead of muscles at the gym. But that's what 99.9% of people at the gym do.

 

[qbkilla]

Ive heard you say this multiple times on multiple threads....basically saying how anytime u tried to gain weight, you turned into a fat slob.
And i would be willing to bet you were just eating wayyy over what you thought u needed.

I have worked with guys who've given me the same excuse of "they just get fat." No, they are overeating. Pretty simple.
They THOUGHT their maintenance was 3500, so they were eating 4k-4.5k.
When in reality their maintenance was much lower.

You basically describe yourself as having endo genes....endos are actually GREAT at adding tissue, but the vast majority of them OVER EAT and therefore are eating hugely over what they NEED to grow. Tissue + fat is accruing. Just like some guys need that 1k over maintenance surplus, you just happened to need 250-300 and just convinced yourself you needed an extra 1k. Coaches can usually figure this out relatively quickly. You aren't a special case, you just had no idea what you were doing.

Great post and I agree. Going from 140 to 240 was simple, back then no apps, just used one and paper to add up the macros, it was mostly tuna, oats, quinoa, chicken, never ate junk just overate and got big and strong but fat. When I started AAS I thought that would change things. "Now I'm on juice, my body will utilize all these extra calories better so instead of 90% fat 10% muscle gain, maybe it can be 70/30 and I'm better off"

As the years went by I'd get to a point where it was too much, so cut, then feel small, so bulk, what many do

A few years ago I tried one last time to bulk, a slow bulk, I had dieted down to 171 (went too far no energy no libido legs hurt). Then went back to maintenance 185 I feel good still pretty lean. But did try that last slow bulk.

I forget my exact surplus but was gaining about 2-3lb a month, I felt a solid rate based on reading. Going from 185 to 210 was employable and easy I love to eat all food, clean food, love it. But still, even when going slow, the waist just shot up from 32-33 to 37-38, arms maybe an inch. Possibly just water?

But that was my last attempt at a more conservative bulk. The waist inches come fast. I'd assume it has a genetic component, I think the term is p-ratio. I also have natural igf levels just a notch from being out of range on the low end. Gh puts me in range but not even in the high end, many have higher natural igf than I'm scoring on gh

But overall that is my experience, just as you described, but the slow gaining tends to give a higher level of fat to muscle than most. Even with Alex azarian coaching me, I think we were a decently lean 220. But I still never looked like a bodybuilder. I guess the moral is genetics are king and we can all just work with what we have.
But I do feel like I see a lot of people making the mistake I did and thinking the secret is to just eat more, when in reality, like you said, the surplus must be present but it is no benefit to setting it too high thinking it will lead to faster lean tissue gain.

 

[qbkilla]

100% correct.

I'd bet it's not his diet that's the biggest problem, it's that he trains movements instead of muscles at the gym. But that's what 99.9% of people at the gym do.

You are spot on. Back in those years I was focused on simply compounds, moving the weight, 5x5 routine, watch the bench go from 225 to 345 until I tore my pec. Had I trained more property (similar to how I do now) I agree I would have seen more development.

Poor training not targeting muscles + excessive surplus= a kid who thinks he's doing something as the scale and weights go up. But the result in the mirror is not impressive.

 

[Elvia1023]

Great post and I agree. Going from 140 to 240 was simple, back then no apps, just used one and paper to add up the macros, it was mostly tuna, oats, quinoa, chicken, never ate junk just overate and got big and strong but fat. When I started AAS I thought that would change things. "Now I'm on juice, my body will utilize all these extra calories better so instead of 90% fat 10% muscle gain, maybe it can be 70/30 and I'm better off"

As the years went by I'd get to a point where it was too much, so cut, then feel small, so bulk, what many do

A few years ago I tried one last time to bulk, a slow bulk, I had dieted down to 171 (went too far no energy no libido legs hurt). Then went back to maintenance 185 I feel good still pretty lean. But did try that last slow bulk.

I forget my exact surplus but was gaining about 2-3lb a month, I felt a solid rate based on reading. Going from 185 to 210 was employable and easy I love to eat all food, clean food, love it. But still, even when going slow, the waist just shot up from 32-33 to 37-38, arms maybe an inch. Possibly just water?

But that was my last attempt at a more conservative bulk. The waist inches come fast. I'd assume it has a genetic component, I think the term is p-ratio. I also have natural igf levels just a notch from being out of range on the low end. Gh puts me in range but not even in the high end, many have higher natural igf than I'm scoring on gh

But overall that is my experience, just as you described, but the slow gaining tends to give a higher level of fat to muscle than most. Even with Alex azarian coaching me, I think we were a decently lean 220. But I still never looked like a bodybuilder. I guess the moral is genetics are king and we can all just work with what we have.
But I do feel like I see a lot of people making the mistake I did and thinking the secret is to just eat more, when in reality, like you said, the surplus must be present but it is no benefit to setting it too high thinking it will lead to faster lean tissue gain.

Can you post pics of yourself at the different weights? A pic of you 220 lean under Alex plus 1 when you think you were fat at a higher weight.

 

[bellicose]

Looking back I remember I hit a sticking point eating 6-8 whole food meals a day. My stomach was always upset and I frequently had acid reflux in my early 20’s. After reading an old DC thread I switch to 4 meals a day but drank 3-4tbsp’s olive oil at every meal and switched out water for a gallon of raw milk a day. That took me from 260 to 290lbs over about 6 months. However I got very uncomfortable being that heavy and living in Florida I literally sweat all day long even in the winter.

 

[qbkilla]

Can you post pics of yourself at the different weights? A pic of you 220 lean under Alex plus 1 when you think you were fat at a higher weight.

I can see if I can dig them up in old emails if I can remember the PW and shoot your way it was actually a different well known rainer I stated with at 250 with an injured pec, who pretty much said "dude your just strong and fat" took me to 179. Then switched over to Alex when I healed and was able to push in the gym again back on AAS and I hit 220. Alex was a great guy btw. Had me throw all my pills and powders away, put me on a simple bro split, and had me on low dosages although I wasn't quite as low as he liked I was honest with him

 

[juggy38]

My top weight was right at 240 at 70inches. It was about 4,000-4,300 calories.

I am an endo, but I’m an active fatty. It was usually 4 lifts a week and 2-3 sessions of some recreational activity.

When I dieted down to 185 to make fight weight, my calories were deathly low for the energy expenditure.

A lot of BMR is genetic, and also if you are a “thrifty” gene or “wasteful” gene. Thrifty…add calories….BMR doesn’t go up much. “Wasteful” you add calories and your BMR jumps up