Why are you only thinking about the extremely rare, speculated risks that vaccines may cause tho? What if you happened to come down with a terrible case of H1N1 that could have been prevented by the vaccine - would you really lay there suffering, thinking what a great decision it was? I mean, worrying about these alleged risks that a vaccine may cause you is like worrying about getting struck by lightning IMO.. Vaccines help exponentially more people than they harm..
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- Thread starter Tom
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Why are you only thinking about the extremely rare, speculated risks that vaccines may cause tho? What if you happened to come down with a terrible case of H1N1 that could have been prevented by the vaccine - would you really lay there suffering, thinking what a great decision it was? I mean, worrying about these alleged risks that a vaccine may cause you is like worrying about getting struck by lightning IMO.. Vaccines help exponentially more people than they harm..
Lee Salado
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I know this may sound bad, but is there any way to fake getting the vaccine? If its more about the fight, then I understand, but faking it may allow you to keep your job and your health. I wouldn't take that garbage either.
Fear for Ricky's soul ? LOL. Did you just call the only person talking reason " sheeple?" I'm sure your loved and respected here for your knowledge, but the whole vaccine fear mongering crowd is where the "sheeple" reside.
I read Tom's posts on vaccines last week. The laundry list of sources were laughable, including a doctor currently residing in a mental institution because she thinks her husband was rectally inserting objects into her kids for the government. It would have been easy to tear it apart, but hardly worth the time as it was so misguided and it's his right to buy into it if he wants.
As far as getting vaccines, I agree it should be a choice. Really, from a eugenics standpoint, if the weak minded buying into the vaccine scare were to die off it might be better for society.
Now that's an argument a "nazi" could appreciate. I'm new, go ahead and ban me, I love the forum but would rather speak the truth than watch a "respected" member insult someone who simply advised Tom to think twice about jeopardizing his job and call him "sheeple."
Funny how I don't remember this hysteria 4 years ago when Bush was going to do the same thing but the threat passed with Avian flu. Funny how Fox didn't fan the flames of paranoia then.
Now we have drama queens crying on TV about it.
U.S. may use military quarantine to contain flu - Bird Flu- msnbc.com
updated 8:11 p.m. ET, Fri., Oct . 7, 2005
WASHINGTON - President Bush, increasingly concerned about a possible avian flu pandemic, revealed Tuesday that any part of the country where the virus breaks out could likely be quarantined and that he is considering using the military to enforce it.
“The best way to deal with a pandemic is to isolate it and keep it isolated in the region in which it begins,” he said during a wide-ranging Rose Garden news conference.
He talked of mandatory vaccines and military quarantines. Maybe you don't trust any government, I dig that, but to imply you know the facts and everyone else doesn't "understand" is simply laughable. Far smarter people than yourself will take the vaccine if the benefits outweigh the risks.
It's amazing with all these dangerous vaccines that the infant mortality rate has went from 80 per 1000 in 1915 to 7.5 per 1000 presently. Also in the previous post there was talk about Thiomersal and autism. That's been scientifically and totally debunked. Even the early champions of that movement have conceded defeat.
Back to the herd for me.
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Yes its happening... it feels like a movie, but its happening... you cant deny it, you cant pretend all is good. Its hard but we all must face the truth.
Im sorry, you dont have a clue whats going on in the world.
=(
maybe this will make you question whats going on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmi3ihrUHJU
But this is just the tip of the iceberg..
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I already watched all 4 parts of it. Possibly true, possibly a disgruntled employee ? I'm with him on the overuse of SSRI's on children. I'm sorry I'm not as enlightened as you. I'm actually quite holistic on most issues, and certainly am leery of big pharm. When I have to think critically, I resort to science as my education would dictate. You rely on youtube.
If you think you know what you're talking about, put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet 100k that if they have mandatory vaccines for H1N1 that more die from the flu than the vaccine. Tell me what 3rd party financial institution you want to escrow it with and I'll have it there by 4pm tomorrow. This offer goes to anyone.
I'll check back for where to send it, otherwise I'm done here. I've never had a bad word for anyone here. I responded to rudeness and ignorance directed at a member in kind. Everyone here agreed with Tom, one person offered a different opinion and the "Nazi" couldn't have that.
If you think you know what you're talking about, put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet 100k that if they have mandatory vaccines for H1N1 that more die from the flu than the vaccine. Tell me what 3rd party financial institution you want to escrow it with and I'll have it there by 4pm tomorrow. This offer goes to anyone.
I'll check back for where to send it, otherwise I'm done here. I've never had a bad word for anyone here. I responded to rudeness and ignorance directed at a member in kind. Everyone here agreed with Tom, one person offered a different opinion and the "Nazi" couldn't have that.
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In that case, because you've already chosen to draw a line in the sand & dig your heels in, it looks like you are soon to be not just unemployed, but terminated.
In this economy, trying to find a job with a lousy previous work reference is likely going to be tough. I hope you've got the financial reserves to weather the storm.
I think you should ask yourself 2 questions:
1. Are the dangerous substances in the H1N1 vaccine LIKELY to do you serious harm?
2. If this virus were to explode across this continent & start taking thousands of lives every day, would you then be willing to take the vaccine?
Obviously if the answers are no (1) & yes (2), then you might want to reconsider your position...
lol i'm chuckling over here myself..
nazi, i'm nowhere close to "selling my soul to the government".. the country is fucked with an ever growing debt due to greed and excess, and i don't agree with many aspects of it.. but to be alarmed and grow suspicious cuz there's a mandatory vaccine for certain employees due to a dangerous virus that kills - is just crazy talk.. to anyone that actually believes that, i'd sincerely recommend that you see a psychiatrist.. yes there are things wrong with the country, but i'm sorry, we're not on some fast track to communism with all these rampant conspiracies and all that garbage.. barack obama is not the anti-christ, and he won't be stripping any of your freedoms or liberties.. some people just seem to have this big problem with authority it seems, but government is an ever-evolving thing, due to a changing world and the people in it.. it just kinda irks me when there's americans that will just sit there talking down on america and about all these crazy gov't conspiracies.. if it's so bad, why not go move somewhere else where you'd feel that things were better for you? if you find that place, i'm happy for ya, but chances are you'll just be mistaken, with the reality that the problems may just be in your head..
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Tom,
I was in the military when the Anthrax scare started and had to get the vaccine. Some members refused to take the shot and they went to NJP(1 step below Court Martial.) I know civilian and military is different so not sure of the legalities of the matter. I will tell you this much i do know, I took those shots more than 10 years ago and i have not had any problems yet. I don't think the Government would use us as test dummies. Some may disagree but thats my take. I hope that all works out for you.
I was in the military when the Anthrax scare started and had to get the vaccine. Some members refused to take the shot and they went to NJP(1 step below Court Martial.) I know civilian and military is different so not sure of the legalities of the matter. I will tell you this much i do know, I took those shots more than 10 years ago and i have not had any problems yet. I don't think the Government would use us as test dummies. Some may disagree but thats my take. I hope that all works out for you.
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This is not about some grand government conspiracy theories, or "selling my soul to the government".
Employees exposed constantly to sick people are prime targets for infection, and they easily can spread the virus before they become ill and even when they don’t have symptoms themselves.
Health workers are among priority groups recommended to get the vaccine first. Others include pregnant women, children and young adults and adults with high-risk medical conditions. Health care workers should make sure they protect themselves and their patients as much as possible. I feel it’s a professional and ethical responsibility of every health care worker to be vaccinated
It isn't mandated for the general citizenry, it's mandated as a condition of a certain employment. If it becomes a condition of employment, that doesn't mean you have to get it. It just means you need it in order to be an employee of that organization. You can choose to seek employment elsewhere if you don't agree with the conditions attached to the job
Employees exposed constantly to sick people are prime targets for infection, and they easily can spread the virus before they become ill and even when they don’t have symptoms themselves.
Health workers are among priority groups recommended to get the vaccine first. Others include pregnant women, children and young adults and adults with high-risk medical conditions. Health care workers should make sure they protect themselves and their patients as much as possible. I feel it’s a professional and ethical responsibility of every health care worker to be vaccinated
It isn't mandated for the general citizenry, it's mandated as a condition of a certain employment. If it becomes a condition of employment, that doesn't mean you have to get it. It just means you need it in order to be an employee of that organization. You can choose to seek employment elsewhere if you don't agree with the conditions attached to the job
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I work in a Healthcare based organization - thankfully for us it is a voluntary decision. We are, however being strongly urged to get the vaccine. I do not want to take this vaccine. I have a client that just got over the Swine Flu. She told me that it really wasn't bad at all. Aches, slight fever & fatigue for 5-7 days and that was it. The danger lies in respiratory distress.
The numbers people throw around here represent HUMAN LIVES. People say so what if 10,000 people have disabling complications - we MIGHT have saved 50,000 from dying. I, for one don't want to be one of the 10,000. What about you?
The numbers people throw around here represent HUMAN LIVES. People say so what if 10,000 people have disabling complications - we MIGHT have saved 50,000 from dying. I, for one don't want to be one of the 10,000. What about you?
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my son was just diagnosed with H1N1 this weekend , the dr started all of us on Tamiflu to lessen the effects WHEN we get it. He said that for the typical person it just the flu that actualy doesent last as long as typical but the fever does run a little higher. I will not be vaccinated for this as it has not been tested enough. The flu kill tens of thousands of people each year as does the common cold , this bug is just alot easier to catch.
I personaly would rather risk getting the flu than risk the potential sides of the vaccine
and to think that the government "wouldent" use you as a guinie pig is crazy ,they have for decades!!
"I love my country but the government scares the hell out of me"
Tom if you are an RN getting another job shouldent be that hard
I personaly would rather risk getting the flu than risk the potential sides of the vaccine
and to think that the government "wouldent" use you as a guinie pig is crazy ,they have for decades!!
"I love my country but the government scares the hell out of me"
Tom if you are an RN getting another job shouldent be that hard
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thats right , i think we call that "natural selection"
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BN is dead on
I am totally standing side by side with BN on this...this is nothing more than forced goverment control. To those of you who are not sheep...following the socialized shepard...this is more than a wake up call. There are plenty of warning signs of where we are headed.
BN...I'm not sure if you were yanking chains...but I wouldn't count on the ACLU to help out in any manner that would take away the ability for the government to control everything. Including our rights to bear arms, religion, at home schooling, etc.
Unfortunately, I don't see a nation standing up for it's freedoms...but the blind leading the blind.
As to you Tom, I agree that you must seek out strong legal council and fight this thing. Who is willing to stand and be the voice of this goverment take over of freedoms?
I am totally standing side by side with BN on this...this is nothing more than forced goverment control. To those of you who are not sheep...following the socialized shepard...this is more than a wake up call. There are plenty of warning signs of where we are headed.
BN...I'm not sure if you were yanking chains...but I wouldn't count on the ACLU to help out in any manner that would take away the ability for the government to control everything. Including our rights to bear arms, religion, at home schooling, etc.
Unfortunately, I don't see a nation standing up for it's freedoms...but the blind leading the blind.
As to you Tom, I agree that you must seek out strong legal council and fight this thing. Who is willing to stand and be the voice of this goverment take over of freedoms?
You rely on "science" you say... how can you be so sure that the people that telling you "this is the science" tells you the whole truth?
You know the big pharma "science" says that pills is very good for you! The more pills you eat the better your life will get. lol great science huh?
You know food "science" tells you that aspartame isnt dangerous.
The medical science says that natural remedys is a hoax, but they use all kinds of plants and natural stuff and make a chemical replica of it and now says its very good and patents it so they can make cash of it.
Science used to say SMOKING ISNT DANGEROUS, in fact its good for you! Another great example of science...
Science also says there is no dangerous radiation from mobile phones, LOL.
GREAT "SCIENCE" YOU GOT THERE!
SCIENCE is a way of control, its have become the new BIBLE FOR PEOPLE,
if science says something then it have to be so right. Cause science cant lie to me, its impossible, all scientist speaks the truth. The ones who control the science and funds it with money would never make them lie to us. NO thats impossible! HAIL SIENCE! THE ONLY TRUTH!
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BN has it right
Every few years "they" (whoever "they" is to all those people who get offended at the very thought of somebody suggesting a government conspiracy) try to cause a pandemic. Years ago it was the avian flu. Back then the planet wasnt as fucked as it is now so they couldnt get away with a mandatory vaccination. Now we are much much closer. Maybe swine flu wont be "the one" but wait and watch -- the next one probably will be. That is what BN was saying when he said it PAVED THE WAY for something else. The very thought of a mandatory vaccination on planet earth makes every pharma group practically ejaculate.
To the guy who said "just get the shot, stop making a fuss and dont put your job at risk", your viewpoint makes me vomit. It doesnt get much more un-american than that (or un-Irish or un-whatever you are). If that is your true viewpoint, (and I hope to god it isnt), then you have no ethics, no morals, (and sorry) no balls and no brain. So when the government says "bend over" you will just do it without hesitating for a second because you dont want to lose your job? What a hero you are.
I dont care what they tell you or if its good or not. Its the principle. We have the right to determine what goes into our bodies. Its a human rights issue. Once the first ever mandatory vaccination goes through, watch what happens. It will be a dark, dark day for mankind.
Tom, I am sorry but have no advice for you my friend. Its a big problem. Get a lawyer. Dont get the shot.
Every few years "they" (whoever "they" is to all those people who get offended at the very thought of somebody suggesting a government conspiracy) try to cause a pandemic. Years ago it was the avian flu. Back then the planet wasnt as fucked as it is now so they couldnt get away with a mandatory vaccination. Now we are much much closer. Maybe swine flu wont be "the one" but wait and watch -- the next one probably will be. That is what BN was saying when he said it PAVED THE WAY for something else. The very thought of a mandatory vaccination on planet earth makes every pharma group practically ejaculate.
To the guy who said "just get the shot, stop making a fuss and dont put your job at risk", your viewpoint makes me vomit. It doesnt get much more un-american than that (or un-Irish or un-whatever you are). If that is your true viewpoint, (and I hope to god it isnt), then you have no ethics, no morals, (and sorry) no balls and no brain. So when the government says "bend over" you will just do it without hesitating for a second because you dont want to lose your job? What a hero you are.
I dont care what they tell you or if its good or not. Its the principle. We have the right to determine what goes into our bodies. Its a human rights issue. Once the first ever mandatory vaccination goes through, watch what happens. It will be a dark, dark day for mankind.
Tom, I am sorry but have no advice for you my friend. Its a big problem. Get a lawyer. Dont get the shot.
I have read through your posts to see if you are qualified to have this conversation with and frankly I don't think you are. Science didn't say smoking didn't cause cancer, science proved it did cause some cancers, TOBACCO scientists stated it didn't cause cancer and until you can prove it does, then as an actual scientist you're handcuffed.
I see you didn't take me up on my offer, a smart kid like you with all the answers shouldn't have an issue putting up his money if he thinks he knows what he is talking about. I mean I don't understand the world, yet I can put up a 100k right this moment to prove you wrong, and a genius like yourself who KNOWS THE TRUTH doesn't have the jack, or doesn't believe his own BS, which is it ? I came back here as I said I would to see if you accept, shocker, you spout off more and don't back it up.
We are at a point where most science is corporate or (political) science or litagation science. Studies done to protect companies, studies done to back a lawsuit, studies done to further a political/religious mindset.
This type of science leaves you asking, what have we proven ? Take squalene for instance, Tulane did a very convincing study on the effects of squalene and Gulf War Syndrome. On it's surface it was almost unshakable until you understand that they were linked to Gulf War Syndrome attorneys looking to win a big lawsuit. They had an incentive to find a certain result.
So the DOD comes and does another study that squalene isn't linked to GWS. Their incentive is obvious, they don't want to pay out claims.
So at this point you're left with 2 flawed studies and have to weed through the BS. You start with common sense. This is where critical thinking takes place.
I don't Hail Science as you so dramatically stated, I hail thinking critically.
Does GWS even exist ? That in itself isn't an easy answer. They suffer anxiety and depression and fibromyalgia at a higher rate than the populace given comparative age. That's a +1 for it existing, but then you add the fact that most members of the military are less educated when returning from service, arrived back from the Persian Gulf war in worse financial shape than their friends who went to college. They are usually taking a pay cut when they leave the service and enter the workforce or go to school.
Compared to rates of those diseases by socio-economic class, they have no higher incidence. You all have friends that are depressed, have anxiety, have many issues that never served a day.
I wouldn't make a blanket statement either way, as I've actually had a serious illness and I certainly wouldn't tell a vet he isn't sick, I'd try to find out why.
Add in all those diagnoses were made by doctors, which we now can't trust according to many here, and what do you have ? Doctors who tell you what you want to hear are good, ones that don't are government lackeys ?
When the FDA takes forever to approve a drug we think is good they are morons. When they rush something because the situation dictates a fast reaction we bitch about the gov't trying to take over, or trying to kill us, trying to give us diseases.
As I stated, I agree that Tom should have the choice to not take the vaccine. Someone here stated they'd rather take the risk of being 1 of the 50,000 dead, than 1 of the 10,000 with side effects. Once again, I agree that should be a choice, but to get the union involved, the ACLU, and other organizations I don't understand. The gov't isn't forcing you to take vaccine, your employer is.
Principled stands cost something, in his case he should take a leave, quit, etc., rather than risk the lives of those he cares for. Why does he get to make the decision for a captive audience of patients who don't share his ideas on vaccines and there dangers ? Maybe they'd prefer to have their HC workers not give them a potentially serious ailment. If he would win, that means his decision outweighs what a panel of educated doctors consider the greater good. If he has proof, lay it on the table, it better be better sourced than his last laundry list of mental patients, semi-quacks, and people whose statements were taken out of context.
Most would take a .002% chance of having a future issue over a .005% chance of dying. Neither is likely enough to lose any sleep over, but if he doesn't want to take it, leave the profession as it has always been an understood risk that you may be forced to protect the patients in your charge over your own health. That's why we respect our health care workers. They risk their own safety to help us regain ours.
It's a selfish move to try and stay employed and not take it, not a pricipled one. Better educated doctors than him will have signed off on it as being a net benefit if it's administered. Foolproof, nothing is, but better than the alternative.
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