In the hospital for the weekend .....

[thebrick]

Well, I have what is considered heart failure and am on HRT. None of my docs have a problem with it.

Ditto. To quote my doctor about HRT "If a man is low on testosterone, you are just giving your body something it needs. The same as a diabetic takes insulin" Of course, they are referencing therapeutic levels, not doses most around here would consider "normal"

Glad you are home Chris and with your family. Rest, reflect and get back to the gym when its time.

 

[elvisman99]

Well, I have what is considered heart failure and am on HRT. None of my docs have a problem with it.

I do think that it is a bit illconceived to blame the cardiomypothy all on just high blood pressure. There are other ways that anabolic steroids interact with the heart. One of my cardiologist mentioned how they change the metabolism of cardiac muscle. Ive personally known people that have walked around for many years with high blood pressure and never develoiped cardiomopathy. I know that I had cardiomyopathy and I only suffered high blood pressure for less than 1 year. It wasnt that high either, maybe 145/90 or so. I wonder if Pekkerwood had untreated high blood pressure for a long time. Having untreated high blood pressure can certainly help cause the condition, but I really dont think the answer is so easy. Nothing in life is that clear cut when it comes to the human body.

But Do you know anybody that has Cardiomyopathy and didnt have high blood pressure? But i agree maldorf nothing is that clear cut

 

[maldorf]

Chris and Maldorf, you guys are smart, verbose, and truly educated. Chris, you're totally gonna recover and get back to a life that you can enjoy, even more than ever before. I truly feel that.
I'm going to see if I can get my brother in law on here to give a rundown of some basics of cardiology, symptoms of different ailments for the heart, AAS abuse, etc. I think having a real cardiologist, a surgeon no less, who is also a fitness buff and is very open minded, very hip and cool (he's only 40 but he's taking over his hospital as one of the very best) and I think he'd be really interested in reading you guy's stories. Just gotta find the time, since my sister cheated on him he's coping by working extreme hours. He does crossfit, has a trainer, but his diet is bad. And his lack of sleep really inflames his kidney stones. He could benefit from some supplements and when in a rush, maybe start taking LBA's throughout the day. Seems everyone can benefit from that.

He might just enjoy coming on here and sharing his knowledge with us. Sounds like he likes to keep busy since the infidelity.

 

[maldorf]

But Do you know anybody that has Cardiomyopathy and didnt have high blood pressure? But i agree maldorf nothing is that clear cut

Well, like I said I really didnt have it before I was diagnosed. I always was measuring mine at home for years and at the docs and it was never over normal. Now one year before my cardiomyopathy came on I did have above normal BP that probably average 145/90 or so but that is it. After that one year I went on BP meds and then shortly after that I was diagnosed. High BP is one cause of it but I believe its not the only cause that can happen from using AAS in the wrong manner.
I think that anyone that has had cardiomyopathy should never consider ever going on AAS again, except for a true HRT dose. Now thats not the HRT doses I see touted on here of 250mg/wk-400mg/wk, that is ludacris. The average the guys used is just 200 mg/2 weeks and that puts you in the middle of normal range. Im taking 120mg/wk and Im high normal at around 850 total test. Of course test should be the only thing considered for use too. No deca, not EQ, no GH etc etc. There comes a time when you have to admit defeat and just grind it out on a normal test level.

 

[chris250]

Chris thats crazy how u say the docs say you could use HRT and that they werent to concerned about them because my brother had a heart transplant in Sept. 09' and he had to explain to them his past in detail and that meant telling them about his aas use his 3 day party binges on blow when he was younger etc etc. and they too were not that worried about his past use.. Now his condition was different than yours, he was diagnosed with Viral Cardiomyopathy and beleive he became ill with it in 2001 but ignored all regular check-ups, blood exams etc.. It wasnt until he became gravely ill and was medevac air ambulance to University of Penn in May of 09'... His heart literally was more than double in size.... Now Since his condition is alot defferent than yours and hes still recovering but doin great,,, HRT hasnt been braught to the table yet or even spoke about.. but back to you brutha im glad your so optomistic and things are gonna work out, your a cool mother'fkr i read all your posts kyd.. Continue to stay positive,, peace!!

He was concered about them...He doesnt want me to go back on...Just HRT/TRT...He said I could do that and only that...Im sure he doenst want to repeat this whole process a few years down the line, and I dont either...Reality has really set in now, and these next few months without touching a weight is gonna drive me crazy...Im pretty tired all the time right now, im not sure its the meds or its just me, and thats how i've been feeling all these years...and to fix that I would just pop a few eph/caff. tabs and go on my way...I probably dont even know whats it like to feel normal...

 

[chris250]

Also, I want to state that High Blood pressue was one of the main causes...Just one of them...there are alot of reason why im like this right now. But, high BP is one of the main one's... He said family history, stress of competing, AAS use, where all reason why my heart is like this...The doctor did put the blame on AAS, just not the full blame...

 

[diesel158]

good reason to rest, relax, enjoy some time with your girls, not a bad thing

 

[chris250]

Day 2 of my recovery...Reality has set in and I relized now its not just a bad dream...Its going to be a long hard road to recovery...but I have to keep my head up, and continue to push forward...Today when my Grace gets home form pre school, we are going to go up to the park and teach her how to play T-ball... im pretty exictied as this is her first real sport she is going to play...

I thank god each day now, for the family and friends tha have called me, texted, and prayed for me...It does make me feel good that I have touched some people lives, for the better...Sarah says, sometimes i was to concerned about everyone else and forgets about myself and things I need to do for me...Sarah always said I spread myself to thin and im trying to help to many people at once...I dont know if that was true...It was I just love watching people sucesses and seeing that smile on there face, when they accomplish something big...

My buddy AJ. Elliot competed in his first show this past weekend...at the Mr.Iowa...Sarah's mom couldnt believe I was still giving him last minute prep when im sitting in the emergency room telling what to eat, and how much water to drink...(A.J. didnt even wanted to compete, I talked him into it) ..I was on the phone with him crying like a baby, cause i couldnt be there for him...I felt horriable....But he came out like Gold and won the lightheavy's and in the State show, and was 2nd overall ...I was very, very proud of him...Next time when those legs match up the upper body, he will be rockin the stage...

anyway those are my thoughts of the day...

 

[puritan]

Day 2 of my recovery...Reality has set in and I relized now its not just a bad dream...Its going to be a long hard road to recovery...but I have to keep my head up, and continue to push forward...Today when my Grace gets home form pre school, we are going to go up to the park and teach her how to play T-ball... im pretty exictied as this is her first real sport she is going to play...

I thank god each day now, for the family and friends tha have called me, texted, and prayed for me...It does make me feel good that I have touched some people lives, for the better...Sarah says, sometimes i was to concerned about everyone else and forgets about myself and things I need to do for me...Sarah always said I spread myself to thin and im trying to help to many people at once...I dont know if that was true...It was I just love watching people sucesses and seeing that smile on there face, when they accomplish something big...

My buddy AJ. Elliot competed in his first show this past weekend...at the Mr.Iowa...Sarah's mom couldnt believe I was still giving him last minute prep when im sitting in the emergency room telling what to eat, and how much water to drink...(A.J. didnt even wanted to compete, I talked him into it) ..I was on the phone with him crying like a baby, cause i couldnt be there for him...I felt horriable....But he came out like Gold and won the lightheavy's and in the State show, and was 2nd overall ...I was very, very proud of him...Next time when those legs match up the upper body, he will be rockin the stage...

anyway those are my thoughts of the day...

You are a really first class gentleman Chris
Today I made my cardio watching your article in musclemag and trully wish you the best recovery... you are a great budy.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Nice

Day 2 of my recovery...Reality has set in and I relized now its not just a bad dream...Its going to be a long hard road to recovery...but I have to keep my head up, and continue to push forward...Today when my Grace gets home form pre school, we are going to go up to the park and teach her how to play T-ball... im pretty exictied as this is her first real sport she is going to play...

I thank god each day now, for the family and friends tha have called me, texted, and prayed for me...It does make me feel good that I have touched some people lives, for the better...Sarah says, sometimes i was to concerned about everyone else and forgets about myself and things I need to do for me...Sarah always said I spread myself to thin and im trying to help to many people at once...I dont know if that was true...It was I just love watching people sucesses and seeing that smile on there face, when they accomplish something big...

My buddy AJ. Elliot competed in his first show this past weekend...at the Mr.Iowa...Sarah's mom couldnt believe I was still giving him last minute prep when im sitting in the emergency room telling what to eat, and how much water to drink...(A.J. didnt even wanted to compete, I talked him into it) ..I was on the phone with him crying like a baby, cause i couldnt be there for him...I felt horriable....But he came out like Gold and won the lightheavy's and in the State show, and was 2nd overall ...I was very, very proud of him...Next time when those legs match up the upper body, he will be rockin the stage...

anyway those are my thoughts of the day...

You are a great guy Chris...........may I make a suggestion?
1. Do not place so much emphasis on muscle.......
2. Everyone is beautiful in their own way
3. See peoples soul, not their physique
4. Start investing more time into family, friends
5. Study things you always wanted to learn
6. Understand that people will love you and accept you but you must love and accept yourself first regardless of what you weigh.
You MUST start changing your thinking.....yo uneed to re-learn what attractive is.........what beautiful is...........your muscle dysmorphia has clouded things the last few yrears and has landed you on deaths doorstep.....dont go through it

 

[Pekkerwood]

Chris:

You did not have "mild" heart failure. You had SEVERE heart failure. A major event. Peope with 20% function can qualify for heart transplants. The thickening of the heart walls is currently not reversible for the most part. Shrinking the enlargement is reversible. You are probaly going to be left with some compromised function due to the thickening.

I've talked to six cardiologists both locally and at the Cleveland Clinic. (There web site is a terrific resource for Heart Failure Patients. Real doctors participate). Not one of these doctors is a fan of anything other than mild weight lifting. They are talking things that wouldn't even warm you up. I lift against their advice. Two cardiologist lift at approximately the same time I do and they are aware of what I do and don't judge too badly.

I think the other major thing the cardiologist will tell you as time goes by is the lowering your bodyweight is one of the biggest steps to prolong your life. This may not be conducive to bodybuilding.

The straining, the max lifts, etc spike blood pressure and you do not want that to occur. I lift, against orders, but I limit myself greatly. Do you remember those dumbells to the left of where you normally workout? Those are your new friends.

Your heart is injured. Let it heal. It may or may not heal all the way but you have an excellent chance at getting close.

It actually pains me a good bit to hear you even mention bodybuilding. I'll put that under the heading of "my problem" not yours.

You are fighting a battle more important than any plastic trophy or adulation from the Affliction T-Shirt brigade. This is real life brother.

One statistic that always sticks in my mind daily: Please understand that this study was normalized for nothing. It contained elderly, obese, etc. I only bring this up to put this battle in its proper prospective. But basically people who experience heart failure have a 50% chance of living five more years. Of those who survive 50% of those will die in the next five years. I discussed this with my cardiologist who is the head of the Cardiology department at the hospital I go to and he said this sounded close to his experience but that "I should not worry". Right.

My heart failure was severe 15% ejection fraction, yours was severe 20%, so that puts us down on the scale. You are young, healthy in other ways, strong and with a good family support system. That evens things back out. I plan on being one of the few to slip through and have a good twenty years if possible but the odds are against. The longer I live the better treatment options will be avialable.

I apologize to those who do not appreciate these comments. I probably would not either if it weren't part of my daily reality. My intent is to be truly helpful, not well liked.

My heart and thoughts are with your Chris.

Pwood

 

[thebrick]

Those last 2 posts by Phil and Pwood are worth their weight in gold. Very, very wise words.

 

[chris250]

Chris:

You did not have "mild" heart failure. You had SEVERE heart failure. A major event. Peope with 20% function can qualify for heart transplants. The thickening of the heart walls is currently not reversible for the most part. Shrinking the enlargement is reversible. You are probaly going to be left with some compromised function due to the thickening.

I've talked to six cardiologists both locally and at the Cleveland Clinic. (There web site is a terrific resource for Heart Failure Patients. Real doctors participate). Not one of these doctors is a fan of anything other than mild weight lifting. They are talking things that wouldn't even warm you up. I lift against their advice. Two cardiologist lift at approximately the same time I do and they are aware of what I do and don't judge too badly.

I think the other major thing the cardiologist will tell you as time goes by is the lowering your bodyweight is one of the biggest steps to prolong your life. This may not be conducive to bodybuilding.

The straining, the max lifts, etc spike blood pressure and you do not want that to occur. I lift, against orders, but I limit myself greatly. Do you remember those dumbells to the left of where you normally workout? Those are your new friends.

Your heart is injured. Let it heal. It may or may not heal all the way but you have an excellent chance at getting close.

It actually pains me a good bit to hear you even mention bodybuilding. I'll put that under the heading of "my problem" not yours.

You are fighting a battle more important than any plastic trophy or adulation from the Affliction T-Shirt brigade. This is real life brother.

One statistic that always sticks in my mind daily: Please understand that this study was normalized for nothing. It contained elderly, obese, etc. I only bring this up to put this battle in its proper prospective. But basically people who experience heart failure have a 50% chance of living five more years. Of those who survive 50% of those will die in the next five years. I discussed this with my cardiologist who is the head of the Cardiology department at the hospital I go to and he said this sounded close to his experience but that "I should not worry". Right.

My heart failure was severe 15% ejection fraction, yours was severe 20%, so that puts us down on the scale. You are young, healthy in other ways, strong and with a good family support system. That evens things back out. I plan on being one of the few to slip through and have a good twenty years if possible but the odds are against. The longer I live the better treatment options will be avialable.

I apologize to those who do not appreciate these comments. I probably would not either if it weren't part of my daily reality. My intent is to be truly helpful, not well liked.

My heart and thoughts are with your Chris.

Pwood

Pwood,
I hear what your saying, and I trust your words...But im just going by what im heart doctor is saying to me...He really believe's that I can recover from this (from what he has seen on the EKG, angiogram, ect, ect) and continue bodybuilding to a degree...I mean, no I wont be 250lbs anymore, or anything like that...but hell ill take a 205-215lbs lean pounds anytime...At this time, (right now as they see it) they believe once I recover from this that sky's the limiit on what I can do...(On HRT/TRT) they said I could go back to training hard, and doing cardio...(thats what they are saying now)..Now if that changes in a month or two, and I cant lift heavy or even with light weights then I will change my goals up to other things I have been wanting to do...Either way, im making this a positive experiance and I will grow from this...I mean is there any other way to think about it...???

 

[MAINEVENT]

Chris, Just now read through all of this and would like to say Im truely sorry for what has happened. I would like to say though that a few things you have said have really hit home and are making me take note.....so thank you for sharing your story with us.

Maldorf, Pekkerwood.....thanks for all the valuable info you guys have shared on this post.

Phil....your last post was excellent.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

MISSING IT

Pwood,
I hear what your saying, and I trust your words...But im just going by what im heart doctor is saying to me...He really believe's that I can recover from this (from what he has seen on the EKG, angiogram, ect, ect) and continue bodybuilding to a degree...I mean, no I wont be 250lbs anymore, or anything like that...but hell ill take a 205-215lbs lean pounds anytime...At this time, (right now as they see it) they believe once I recover from this that sky's the limiit on what I can do...(On HRT/TRT) they said I could go back to training hard, and doing cardio...(thats what they are saying now)..Now if that changes in a month or two, and I cant lift heavy or even with light weights then I will change my goals up to other things I have been wanting to do...Either way, im making this a positive experiance and I will grow from this...I mean is there any other way to think about it...???

Sky is the limit with HRT? You were on a LOT of stuff and there was a limit..........do not worry about muscle mass....do not guess your weight..........you have a heart issue.............sure dream of life, but dream of realistic things. 205, 305, 105, it does not matter.

 

[Pekkerwood]

Chris:

Phils post is one of the best things I've ever read on the board.

I wish you great success and will available on the board, via pm, or telephone if you need me. You are part of a loving family that would not be so beautiful if your were not a part of it.

You are part of a wonderful brotherhood that would not be so wonderful if you were not a part of it.

Phils post should be changed to be made more generic and should be a sticky. It would not be bad to print out and look at from time to time to help keep perspective.

Be at Peace.

 

[Hiramabiff]

Thanks for sharing Chris. Life is truly good indeed.

 

[Magnum]

Chris:

You did not have "mild" heart failure. You had SEVERE heart failure. A major event. Peope with 20% function can qualify for heart transplants. The thickening of the heart walls is currently not reversible for the most part. Shrinking the enlargement is reversible. You are probaly going to be left with some compromised function due to the thickening.

I've talked to six cardiologists both locally and at the Cleveland Clinic. (There web site is a terrific resource for Heart Failure Patients. Real doctors participate). Not one of these doctors is a fan of anything other than mild weight lifting. They are talking things that wouldn't even warm you up. I lift against their advice. Two cardiologist lift at approximately the same time I do and they are aware of what I do and don't judge too badly.

I think the other major thing the cardiologist will tell you as time goes by is the lowering your bodyweight is one of the biggest steps to prolong your life. This may not be conducive to bodybuilding.

The straining, the max lifts, etc spike blood pressure and you do not want that to occur. I lift, against orders, but I limit myself greatly. Do you remember those dumbells to the left of where you normally workout? Those are your new friends.

Your heart is injured. Let it heal. It may or may not heal all the way but you have an excellent chance at getting close.

It actually pains me a good bit to hear you even mention bodybuilding. I'll put that under the heading of "my problem" not yours.

You are fighting a battle more important than any plastic trophy or adulation from the Affliction T-Shirt brigade. This is real life brother.

One statistic that always sticks in my mind daily: Please understand that this study was normalized for nothing. It contained elderly, obese, etc. I only bring this up to put this battle in its proper prospective. But basically people who experience heart failure have a 50% chance of living five more years. Of those who survive 50% of those will die in the next five years. I discussed this with my cardiologist who is the head of the Cardiology department at the hospital I go to and he said this sounded close to his experience but that "I should not worry". Right.

My heart failure was severe 15% ejection fraction, yours was severe 20%, so that puts us down on the scale. You are young, healthy in other ways, strong and with a good family support system. That evens things back out. I plan on being one of the few to slip through and have a good twenty years if possible but the odds are against. The longer I live the better treatment options will be avialable.

I apologize to those who do not appreciate these comments. I probably would not either if it weren't part of my daily reality. My intent is to be truly helpful, not well liked.

My heart and thoughts are with your Chris.

Pwood

PW, the statistics that you quote are true, but you need to remember that these are averages. This does mean that no one will live longer than five or ten years. Back in 2001 my Dad went to Cleveland Clinic quite a few times and to be honest I was not too impressed. At that time he was seeing a Dr Haas. Now, I am not saying that I was not impressed with Dr Hass, just the overall way of how they handled things. For example. My Dad's EF was about 25% at the time and I was desperately trying to find a way to improve this. (Ubiquinol had not yet been developed) The Dr's at Cleveland Clinic told me that he had no options for improving his EF other than a heart transplant and at his age he was not a candidate for one.

After many hours of searching for answers I came across a special type of pacemaker (I think made by Medtronics?) that at the time had just gone thru trials and was shown successful in increasing certain patients EF with HF. Guess where the studies were done? Cleveland Clinic!! Obviously I was kinda pissed off since this was the place that we were going. Anyway, after consulting (in a very nice way) they said yes your dad is a candidte for the type of pacemaker. So all long he was a candidate for this pacemaker and was never told for whatever reason.

I may have stayed a bit, but my point is that just because a DR tells you something does not mean that it is true or at least true for you. Too many people just listen to there Dr's blindly and don't bother to question them and in my Dad's case his Dr at Clevelend Clinic failed to tell him about a special pacemaker that could have possibley extended his life and the sad thing is that this pacemaker was tested at Cleveland Clinic.

I am not sure if anyone here remembers Steve Courson that played for the steelers years ago. Long story short he was told by his Dr's that he would need a heart transplant. He was going around in my area doing seminars on the dangers of steroids. He was tryring to drum up money for his heart transplant. Anyway, he ended up recovering enough that he did not need a transplant. I remember him saying how bad his heart was and how he was not going to live very long without a new heart. I'm betting that his heart was damaged way more than anyone hear since they pretty much gave him a timeline as to how soon he needed a new heart. He ended recovering enough that the Dr's told him he did not need a new heart and he lived many years after this until just a few years ago when a tree fell on him and he was killed. Just another example of things can turn around when someone tells you that you have a limited time to live.

 

[maldorf]

He was concered about them...He doesnt want me to go back on...Just HRT/TRT...He said I could do that and only that....

Being on HRT is healthy for you. In fact I saw some studies online that showed that men that suffer from chronically low test levels have a higher probablity of heart disease. So you can have not enough and be unhealthy. You sure feel like shit if its low. I hope you find a good endo that treats you right. Mine had no problem letting me have my total test in the mid 800s. She went by what I told her as far as how I felt.

 

[chris250]

Being on HRT is healthy for you. In fact I saw some studies online that showed that men that suffer from chronically low test levels have a higher probablity of heart disease. So you can have not enough and be unhealthy. You sure feel like shit if its low. I hope you find a good endo that treats you right. Mine had no problem letting me have my total test in the mid 800s. She went by what I told her as far as how I felt.

Yeah I think the one im going to is a good one...I have a few buddies go to him, and they like him alot...He's a younger guy, workouts, and whats guys to be healthy and strong...I mean I know my situation is different so, I might have to suffer a bit at first, but im excited when I get the green light to train somewhat hard again..

Hey by the way I called you this morning

chris