In the hospital for the weekend .....

[maldorf]

I've talked to six cardiologists both locally and at the Cleveland Clinic. (There web site is a terrific resource for Heart Failure Patients. Real doctors participate). Not one of these doctors is a fan of anything other than mild weight lifting. They are talking things that wouldn't even warm you up. I lift against their advice. Two cardiologist lift at approximately the same time I do and they are aware of what I do and don't judge too badly.

One statistic that always sticks in my mind daily: Please understand that this study was normalized for nothing. It contained elderly, obese, etc. I only bring this up to put this battle in its proper prospective. But basically people who experience heart failure have a 50% chance of living five more years. Of those who survive 50% of those will die in the next five years. I discussed this with my cardiologist who is the head of the Cardiology department at the hospital I go to and he said this sounded close to his experience but that "I should not worry". Right.

Pwood

Yeah, my cardiologist told me if I am going to squat, use 20 lbs dumbells. I flat out told him I cant do that,sorry. Ive been lifting bascially for well over a year now using lihgter weights but I still go 315 on squats. My last echo done last week showed that my heart is the same as last year before I was doing much of anything so I didnt get worse. So it sounds like what im doing is ok, but im still risking it really. If you can bring yourself not to do it, its probably better. I really cant though, it would drive me insane. Of course if you choose to lift, youll need to wait several months before you start it and do it slowly. I have more condifence now when I lift since I have the defibrillator so I know if my heart tries to stop on me it will shock it back into rhythm. What I am doing doesnt fit the protocol for survival post heart attack/cardiomyopathy so I cant recommend it. Im still stubborn.

I asked my one caridologist, the one that saved my life by sucking out the clot in my heart, how long he tought I had to live on my heart and he told me 10-15 years. That was 2 years ago. So far though my heart has not lost any performance. Im doing ok, so I know that you Chris will do even better since you didnt have a heart attack.

 

[maldorf]

Yeah I think the one im going to is a good one...I have a few buddies go to him, and they like him alot...He's a younger guy, workouts, and whats guys to be healthy and strong...I mean I know my situation is different so, I might have to suffer a bit at first, but im excited when I get the green light to train somewhat hard again..

Hey by the way I called you this morning

chris

If he is a good doc that really cares about your health, he will probably make you wait awhile and see if your test levels come back on their own. Mine had me wait 8 months or so. It was a really hard thing to do. IN the long run though it would be more healthy if you could get by on your own natural production, but in reality we know that may not happen. My doc I think was surprised when my condition actually got worse the longer we waited. My LH actually was lowest at the end of the 8 months.

 

[chris250]

Today was the first day that I went outside to enjoy the sunshine..Sarah and I went on a walk with Grace...Probably walked for about 40 mins or so...and by the time we got back to the house (stopped at the park so Grace could play) I was beat up...I mean out of breath, and tired...But it felt good to get outside of the house...I hope its not the wrong thing to do...Being in the house all day long drives me stirr crazy...

 

[Silencer]

Today was the first day that I went outside to enjoy the sunshine..Sarah and I went on a walk with Grace...Probably walked for about 40 mins or so...and by the time we got back to the house (stopped at the park so Grace could play) I was beat up...I mean out of breath, and tired...But it felt good to get outside of the house...I hope its not the wrong thing to do...Being in the house all day long drives me stirr crazy...

Simply going for a walk with my wife and kids is one of my favorite little pleasures in life. Something I didn't appreciate for a long time. Good for you.

As for whether it is the wrong thing to do, I think the phrase, "ask your doctor" will be a large part of everything you will be doing while in recovery.

Wishing you quick and speedy recovery. "When one door closes, another opens".

 

[maldorf]

Today was the first day that I went outside to enjoy the sunshine..Sarah and I went on a walk with Grace...Probably walked for about 40 mins or so...and by the time we got back to the house (stopped at the park so Grace could play) I was beat up...I mean out of breath, and tired...But it felt good to get outside of the house...I hope its not the wrong thing to do...Being in the house all day long drives me stirr crazy...

No. Most docs these days will encourage you to do what you did. They used to want people to have bed rest, but that has all changed. As long as you dont find your heart racing near 100 bpm or faster, its ok IMO.

hey, are you on a beta blocker? I sure hope that you are. I wasnt on one after my heart attack and I almost paid for it with my life. Beta blockers ARE LIFE SAVERS for people with heart failure. Curious as to what they put you on. I take Coreg CR 80 mg caps.

 

[chris250]

No. Most docs these days will encourage you to do what you did. They used to want people to have bed rest, but that has all changed. As long as you dont find your heart racing near 100 bpm or faster, its ok IMO.

hey, are you on a beta blocker? I sure hope that you are. I wasnt on one after my heart attack and I almost paid for it with my life. Beta blockers ARE LIFE SAVERS for people with heart failure. Curious as to what they put you on. I take Coreg CR 80 mg caps.

Yeah I am on beta blockers but only 12.5mg 2 x a day...is that to little ?

 

[chris250]

No. Most docs these days will encourage you to do what you did. They used to want people to have bed rest, but that has all changed. As long as you dont find your heart racing near 100 bpm or faster, its ok IMO.

hey, are you on a beta blocker? I sure hope that you are. I wasnt on one after my heart attack and I almost paid for it with my life. Beta blockers ARE LIFE SAVERS for people with heart failure. Curious as to what they put you on. I take Coreg CR 80 mg caps.

Also you think some cardio (just normal walking, or slow walking on the treadmill) is ok ? but no weight training, even if its lighter weights...and by that I mean say just doing warm up sets...Like 25lbs Dumbell presses or just 2 plates on a side of the leg press ? For 12-15 super easy reps ?

 

[Emery]

Maldorf, did they ever put you on Digoxin/Lanoxin? Since Digoxin has a positive inotropic effect on the heart I would think it would help with your EF%? It strengthens the contraction of the heart thus improving output but can really slow the pulse down.

Are you on also on Coumadin now or is the clotting problem resolved?

 

[maldorf]

Yeah I am on beta blockers but only 12.5mg 2 x a day...is that to little ?

No its not. What he is going to do with you is gradually work the dose up for you. I asked all sorts of questions to him and you might want to drill the guy all you can for answers. They need to start you out low to see how your body handles it, and they will slowly work your dose up over the course of 3 or 4 weeks I think it was. Whats the name of the drug youre one? Coreg is supposed to be the best (carvedilol).

I started out low too and then worked up to my dose. NOw if you dont go CR9continuos release like me (24 hr cap) the highest dose they use on Coreg is 25 mg tab 2x per day. So if youre on Coreg, youre half way to where you need to be. For some reason when you take the 24 hr version like me you have to take a higher dose to get same effect. I find that the 24 hr caps IMO provide a much better continual release. I used to get times where the 12 hr tabs would peak and id get light headed and it would mess up my asthma. The 24 hr caps dont do that at all really.

 

[maldorf]

Maldorf, did they ever put you on Digoxin/Lanoxin? Since Digoxin has a positive inotropic effect on the heart I would think it would help with your EF%? It strengthens the contraction of the heart thus improving output but can really slow the pulse down.

Are you on also on Coumadin now or is the clotting problem resolved?

Never used the Digoxin. My heart rate is so slow now from the coreg that I dont need it. The beta blocker really has things under control. The cardiologist said when he listened to my heart that it sounded normal,lol. So if I just walked into his office he wouldnt even know I had heart failure. My resting hr now is about 58 bpm.

Im on coumadin at 6mg/day. thatll be for life. Just to be safe. I wasnt on it at first but I got nervous and asked to see a hematologist and he thought it was a good idea too so I went on it. What I have is genetic.

 

[Emery]

Maldorf, question on Lasix

Mal,

What do you think of all the guys using Lasix? I can understand using it sparingly if you are a competitor but there are guys on here using it at 22% BF just to get rid of a double chin! I shit you not. I just read a post like this. These guys are giving other guys advice on how to take their grandpa's stash of lasix. To me this is just scary. One guy said he wants to take it 3 times per week while on a Test cycle. I hope he knows to get his potassium levels checked. If those get out of whack, dysrhythmia, etc. is pretty much inevitable!

 

[maldorf]

Mal,

What do you think of all the guys using Lasix? I can understand using it sparingly if you are a competitor but there are guys on here using it at 22% BF just to get rid of a double chin! I shit you not. I just read a post like this. These guys are giving other guys advice on how to take their grandpa's stash of lasix. To me this is just scary. One guy said he wants to take it 3 times per week while on a Test cycle. I hope he knows to get his potassium levels checked. If those get out of whack, dysrhythmia, etc. is pretty much inevitable!

Yeah, I know it. Very dangerous stuff to be messing with IMO, especially if its going to be routinely throughout the week and youre not have K+ monitored. I wouldnt have ever dreamed of doing that, and I used plenty of other shit! I guess I can see for a contest, but only if you have the help of someone who knows what hes doing. I think there has been at least one pro body builder they think died due to diuretics. Didnt Momo Benaziza die from that? I found this quote online just now
"Benaziza was found dead in his hotel room at 6 PM on October 4, 1992, shortly after a competition in a small town in the Zeeland district in the Netherlands. It is reported that he had complained about sickness and shortness of breath because he abused steroids and diuretics and inducing deshydratation and a heart attak. His death led to the end of the career of his personal friend."

 

[chris250]

Maldorf - its the Coreg version

 

[V-Man]

Chris hang in there. Sorry I didn't see this post sooner.

I had the same thing happen to me like 15 years ago. I had the flu that wouldn;t go away so I went to the ER. They put me on a monitor and started running all kinds of tests. Then I wake up in CCU and was told I have cardiomyopathy.

With me I was not into lifting at the time so they tried to blame it on drug use and having a drinking which I denied both so eventually they ruled it viral.

Anyway to make a long story short. My EF was 15 was told I needed a heart transplant.

I went home on meds then my heart rhythm went out and they put a pacemaker in. Then I had fast rhythms so they put in a defibrillator.

I went through a transplant work up, my heart stabilized with my meds and I had a real good quality of life so it was decided I would continue with medical management.

Then as technology advanced they put in a special bi-ventriucular pacemaker designed to help heart failure patients. I got excellent results and feel wonderful.

During all this is when I decided to start working out and getting in shape. I was a skinny toothpick. It wasn't easy I bolted a few times from the gym from embarassment when a muscular guy would come near me, but I kept at it and built a pretty decent physique.

Now I train with a bodybuilder who guides and spots me. I train very safe. I go heavy but nothing to the extreme. I'm 48 now still with an EF of 15 but have a perfect quality of life. I work full time, work out, not short of breath and good energy levels. The doctors really don't believe it sometimes.

Anyway the point is your life will change but you can still do what you love, you can still train, maybe not as near the amount of weight you usually do, you can still retain a decent physique and you can still go to bodybuilding shows and participate in other ways, you can even still compete, you might never get a pro card but you can still enjoy all of it.

I wish you the very best. If you need anything or want to talk just PM me and I will send you my cell and e-mail.

Hang in there.

Vito

 

[maldorf]

Maldorf - its the Coreg version

Sweet, thats the best stuff around. thats what I use. I confroted my doc this week about going on toporl XL instead and he said that the coreg from his experience and studies was THE BEST. Ask your doc about going on the 24 hr verions. I and my doc feel that its better. Also ask him if he plans on increasing your dose. Beta blockers WILL RAISE YOUR EJECTION FRACTION directly. They act like the govenor on a car by keeping the speed of your heart down below a certain limit. not having the beat blocker would be like flooring your car without a govenor and then going top speed and redlining your car to the point that the engine burns up. It helps keep heart rate down and will actually improve how your heart contracts.

I am on the following: Coreg CR 80mg/day, aldactone(forget dose), and lisinopril ace inhibitor(forget dose but its really small). I also take niaspan for HDL and crestor to help raise HDL too. My LDL is low but the docs just wanna be safe.

 

[maldorf]

Then as technology advanced they put in a special bi-ventriucular pacemaker designed to help heart failure patients. I got excellent results and feel wonderful.

Hey Vitto!

My cardiologist is kinda upset that the docs who were taking care of me at the time I got my defibrillator never evaluated me to see if I would benefit from a bi-ventricular pacemaker/defib. So I have just the left side done now. Did you say that you had just the one side at first and then switched to both sides? Thats what I am going to get tested for soon and I may get one. How much did it help you going from a single to a double!?

 

[V-Man]

It helped me immensely but there is no guarantee. Some people don't see any difference.

The bi-ventricular causes both ventricles to contract simutaneously thus delivering a better cardiac output. With a single ventricular model the impulse takes time to travel to the other ventricle through all the thickened hypertrophied muscle therefore your not operating efficiently.

So look into it if you can get a better model go for it.

 

[lycan]

Chris, I wish you a very speedy recovery. Stay positive and take care. You`ll be back in form in no time.

Mike aka Lycan

 

[chris250]

For Maldorf -

my meds -

Coreg 12.5mg 2 x a day
Hydrochoorothiazide - lisinopril 12.5-20mg oral tabs 1 x day
Inspra 25mg 1 x day
Lortab 10/500 (for pain) this is more for my ulcer than anything else...not really even using this as my stomach is healing now pretty well
Norvasc 5mg oral tablet 1 x day
Protonix 40mg oral enteric coated tab 2 x a day (again for my ulcer)

my next appt with my doctor is may 5th and I got my sleep study preliminary appt this upcoming monday...

today I feel kinda beat up..yesterday as I said I went outside for the first time and walked around town with Sarah and Grace...Is kinda cloudy today so I dont know if thats got my mood down or what...but I just feel kinda lazy today...I still plan on getting outside again today when sarah gets home and walking with her and Grace today...Taking them to the park and watching grace play on the monkey bars...her goal now is to climb all the way across the monkey bars without falling...She is alot like her day that she never gives up...LOL !! I guess thats a good thing....

 

[Diesel City]

Hey Chris,
Just wanted to let you know that this experience wasn't wasted on me. After seeing your post, I instantly got in touch w/ my doc. I was able to get in and see him yesterday, he spent an hour and 40 mins with me. I was very open and upfront with him about everything I've done over the last two years. We did a full physical, and he ordered labs on everything under the sun, and plans to do so on a quarterly basis.