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Alarming bloods? Help me bring down my cholesterol...

w8tlifterty

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I know there are a ton of these lately... those of you that are educated and more researched than myself please take a minute to give me your thoughts. How alarmed should I be?

36 years old lonnnngggg time member. Cycled on/off from 21-27. Off at 27 and completely clean till 32. TRT of 8-25mg test daily since 32 years of age. Unfortunately, no bloods from back then for a baseline. Currently 5'8 (f ing heavy deads/sq shrunk me evidently :eek:) and 218-220lbs 12% bf.

I take daily...
20mg test prop/enan daily (10mg each) and 2iu generic gh (past 6 months or so) -Total serum test read 775 btw, he didn't run free
Multi
Synthetine 1ml ed
green tea exract 500mg every morning
biotin 5mg ed
Those are staples... I rotate in vit d, c, fish oil etc but after this long in the game I'm just fucking burnt out taking pills, yet I pin every muscle in my body daily :D

Diet is relatively clean but I no longer compete. I do stay lean and very rarely venture above 12%, usually 10ish come summer and I'm not naturally lean
250-350g pro daily (red meat, whey, chic thighs mainly)
carbs very off days are low, on days are 150-300g i'd say (rice, potato, low sugar cereals, all fruits and veggies)
fats vary (avocado, pb, almond butter, ghee, grass fed butter, virgin coco oil, clean sources predominantly). Rarely eat out, no fast food and 95% of my meals are prepared by me but I do eat more processed shit the past few years.

My doctor is very pacific northwesterny, vegan and not at all understanding of my lifestyle, he shits a brick when I show him my diet and he wants to bring me down to a 500ish test level :confused: but I like his liberal pansy ass for some reason and he bust my balls so I'm asking you guys for help ... I have a 5 year old baby girl and I want to be around for her for a long time.

Blood drawn fasted but I train hard and heavy (usually 2 on 1 off or 4 on 2 off) and did not take a break from training.
Here is what was out of range...
Glucose was good at 80
Bun elevated at 21 (6-20)
Creatinine 1.20 (.76-1.27)
Bun/Crea Ratio 18 (9-20)
Ast 65 (0-40)
Alt 79 (0-44)
Total Cholesterol 214 (100-199)

Triglycerides 61 (0-149)
HDL 30 (>39)
VLDL 12 (5-40)
LDL 172 (0-99)
T Chol/ HDL ratio 7.1 (0-5.0)


TSH 6.36 (.450-4.5)

Free T4 (direct) 1.15 (.82-1.77)
WBC 7.6 (3.4-10.8)
RBC 5.95 (4.14-5.80)
Hemoglobin 17.8 (13.0-17.7)
Hematocrit 53.1 (37.5-51)

Everything else well within range...
Blood pressure use to run 120/75 ish for years but with the addition of the GH its went up to an average of 130/80ish

No prescription meds... very occasional use of advil/alieve/aspirin for knee pain from squatting and what I believe to be herniated disc in my lower back which seems to be causing sciatica more frequently as of the past year. I am stupid and train with injuries which have caused some major imbalances. I need to address these issues as well but that's for another post.

Looking into Citrus Bergamot/Krill oil/Curcumin for inflammation and to assist in bringing down LDL (Thanks Dante). Adding more supplemental fiber and fresh veggies. Any other recommendations based on this bloodwork. If there is any other info I can provide to help, I will. I want to get this fixed asap. Then focus on my back/knee issues once I get this bloodwork sorted. Appreciate any input
 
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Stewie

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Of all things, you should further investigate more of your thyroid parameters. This in itself may be associated with your slightly elevated LDL.

There's more, tho I'm headed to bed.
 

w8tlifterty

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Thanks for your input Stewie. Was hoping you'd chime in. After doing a bit of reading, I'm surprised my Dr didn't make the correlation between hypothyroidism and the high ldl. In- fact, he brushed over the thyroid panel telling me the lab they use often test 'High' for tsh?? As far as sides that could be related to the high tsh reading... my hair has taken a bad turn for the worse the past year, thinning much faster than ever despite no real hormonal (test) change, only new addition being the gh in the last 6 months. I'm always sore/achy. I'm unusually tired but again, I attributed that to the hgh.

I take in a load of iodine. Iodized sea salt in my pre workout mix of beet root, collagen and creatine, luecine, and beta- alanine. Iodized sea salt on most meals and I take a kelp tab every morning (I forgot to mention). No real reason why, I just started doing it when I started the gh. I will eliminate this practice immediately. Could excessive iodide be a possible culprit?
 
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NEMSZ

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I’ll chime in with what little I know; hopefully when Stewie comes back he can further clear things up and maybe even end up helping us both lol..

As for your cholesterol; Citrus Bergamot and Krill/Fish oil will definitely help, eating healthy fats and eliminating unnecessary sugars etc... CARDIO!! I can’t stress that enough, it really does help everything and is probably the #1 thing at specifically raising HDL..

As for your liver numbers, it could be like you said you lift heavy and hard and didn’t take a break...

Also; were you hydrated at all during the test??

I ask because I know your BUN/Creatinine etc can be effected by that and also the training, but also your RBC/Hematocrit is a slightly elevated and I actually just got my bloodwork back last week and my RBC was just slightly elevated at 5.8 and my Hematocrit too at 53 (my Hemoglobin was in range) BUT I was dehydrated, I went in fasted and hadn’t had any water since the night before and I’m a bit of a hypochondriac so I checked everywhere and being dehydrated is actually the #1 reason for having false high Crit etc... I got another test done the other day just to check but maybe Stewie can either confirm or correct some of these things..

So that being said, you may have a perfectly good explanation for some of those numbers being a little off with the exception of the Cholesterol, which isn’t too crazy and you can definitely fix within a couple months..

I don’t know shit about TSH so again; waiting on Stewie for that one lol
 

Stewie

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The thyroid-cholesterol connection is pretty straight forward. And often overlooked, as it appears your physician did. Rather than looking into possible root causes of someone's elevated lipids, a majority of physician's will opt/suggest to put someone on a statin if their patients cholesterol parameters fall within a certain range. There's many different schools of thought on this. Although finding a clinician that thinks outside of the box when it comes to pharmacological interventions is paramount.

The token of this may or may not fit the etiology of your slightly elevated LDL. Correctively, it's worth pursuing. In the same context, several of our hormones influence our cholesterol biosynthesis and metabolism regulation. In the situation of subclinical or true hypothyroidism, our thyroid hormones have multiple effects on the regulation of lipid production, absorption, and metabolism. Thyroid hormones stimulate the expression of hepatic HMG-CoA reductase activity, which is an enzyme in the liver involved in the production of cholesterol. There's also the promotion of cholesterol efflux through ABCA1 cholesterol transporter, mechanistically this is a key player when discussing atherosclerosis. There's much, much more than these two biophysiological reactions.

In essence and theory this is to enhance the function of LDL and HDL cholesterol. Thyroid hormones, in particular T4 actives the LDL receptor, in the event there is an inadequate signalling of T4 this will keep more Ldl cholesterol in circulation. Therefore, an elevation of Ldl.

All of the suggestions on supplements/diet have a role in correcting a poor cholesterol profile. Yet, if there's a undiagnosed/untreated condition(s) that's a root cause of your cholesterol abnormalities. Some of these supplements may not directly alter your LDL into a decent physiological range. Or create an environment on the functionality of your lipoproteins if there's some hormonal abnormalities.

With all that verbage out of the way. I'd highly suggest a sit down discussion with your primary to look a little more in-depth with your thyroid parameters. Antibody testing would be up for a chit-chat. Drop the iodine supplemention prior to any thyroid panel you have pulled.

And as mentioned by NEMSZ, cardio is of importance for overall health. Its a gatekeeper on the functionality of your lipoproteins. Something worth sneakering up for :)

And as NEMSZ mentioned, hydration status is one of those simple oversights that can skew a few different assays (lab readings). Including your lipids. Don't neglect staying as hydrated as possible the day prior and the morning of your labs.
 

w8tlifterty

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Nemz/Stewie... I really appreciate all your input. Will add some high intensity cardio in immediately as well as lowering carbs in place of more healthy fats. Going to order a thyroid panel online to retest and if still high, will schedule another apt w my physician.

Been reading a ton on the thyroid/cholesterol correlation. Fascinating. Will keep this thread updated...
 

Beta

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Isn't cardarine supposed to raise HDL? I thought we had a member who ran a log of a long course of low dose GW (I may be confusing 2 different threads) with blood work for the purpose of fixing cholesterol.
 

w8tlifterty

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Yeah, several have reported positive results in regards to hdl but isn't it also associated w an increased cancer risk..? I've contemplated trying it but I'll first follow up w more test, thyroid specifically, as I do believe Stewie is onto something here.

If I add it in at some point, I'll update as to the results but at this point in life, i'd prefer to take less drugs, not more!
 

Musclemechanic76

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Jan 21, 2018
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I know there are a ton of these lately... those of you that are educated and more researched than myself please take a minute to give me your thoughts. How alarmed should I be?

36 years old lonnnngggg time member. Cycled on/off from 21-27. Off at 27 and completely clean till 32. TRT of 8-25mg test daily since 32 years of age. Unfortunately, no bloods from back then for a baseline. Currently 5'8 (f ing heavy deads/sq shrunk me evidently :eek:) and 218-220lbs 12% bf.

I take daily...
20mg test prop/enan daily (10mg each) and 2iu generic gh (past 6 months or so) -Total serum test read 775 btw, he didn't run free
Multi
Synthetine 1ml ed
green tea exract 500mg every morning
biotin 5mg ed
Those are staples... I rotate in vit d, c, fish oil etc but after this long in the game I'm just fucking burnt out taking pills, yet I pin every muscle in my body daily :D

Diet is relatively clean but I no longer compete. I do stay lean and very rarely venture above 12%, usually 10ish come summer and I'm not naturally lean
250-350g pro daily (red meat, whey, chic thighs mainly)
carbs very off days are low, on days are 150-300g i'd say (rice, potato, low sugar cereals, all fruits and veggies)
fats vary (avocado, pb, almond butter, ghee, grass fed butter, virgin coco oil, clean sources predominantly). Rarely eat out, no fast food and 95% of my meals are prepared by me but I do eat more processed shit the past few years.

My doctor is very pacific northwesterny, vegan and not at all understanding of my lifestyle, he shits a brick when I show him my diet and he wants to bring me down to a 500ish test level :confused: but I like his liberal pansy ass for some reason and he bust my balls so I'm asking you guys for help ... I have a 5 year old baby girl and I want to be around for her for a long time.

Blood drawn fasted but I train hard and heavy (usually 2 on 1 off or 4 on 2 off) and did not take a break from training.
Here is what was out of range...
Glucose was good at 80
Bun elevated at 21 (6-20)
Creatinine 1.20 (.76-1.27)
Bun/Crea Ratio 18 (9-20)
Ast 65 (0-40)
Alt 79 (0-44)
Total Cholesterol 214 (100-199)

Triglycerides 61 (0-149)
HDL 30 (>39)
VLDL 12 (5-40)
LDL 172 (0-99)
T Chol/ HDL ratio 7.1 (0-5.0)


TSH 6.36 (.450-4.5)

Free T4 (direct) 1.15 (.82-1.77)
WBC 7.6 (3.4-10.8)
RBC 5.95 (4.14-5.80)
Hemoglobin 17.8 (13.0-17.7)
Hematocrit 53.1 (37.5-51)

Everything else well within range...
Blood pressure use to run 120/75 ish for years but with the addition of the GH its went up to an average of 130/80ish

No prescription meds... very occasional use of advil/alieve/aspirin for knee pain from squatting and what I believe to be herniated disc in my lower back which seems to be causing sciatica more frequently as of the past year. I am stupid and train with injuries which have caused some major imbalances. I need to address these issues as well but that's for another post.

Looking into Citrus Bergamot/Krill oil/Curcumin for inflammation and to assist in bringing down LDL (Thanks Dante). Adding more supplemental fiber and fresh veggies. Any other recommendations based on this bloodwork. If there is any other info I can provide to help, I will. I want to get this fixed asap. Then focus on my back/knee issues once I get this bloodwork sorted. Appreciate any input
Your TSH is high and t4 direct....
Get reverse t3 and t3 checked.
If thyroid not putting out lipids LDL will be elevated until it's right.

T4 direct means it's available but doesn't say it's converting.....

I had a 156 LDL after a contest and 8 weeks Anadrol then tren among others ...
But most of all I dropped Novothyral 2 weeks only prior to bloods.
Tsh was still low and free t4 low, wasn't recovered and was still on 5iu hgh... TRT labs were too close.
My next labs were all good with all LDL 100
Lowered hgh to 3.3iu and let my thyroid recover. I used iodine between wrist supp.. and I didn't use orals. I kept test lower end use dhb and primo with Low trest ace.

Trest ace does not affect my lipids at 25mg eod or my hemo. I have order as needed phlebotomy. My hematacrit only high if dehydrated.

Oh and did u fast for 12 hours????!!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
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Delt123

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Isn't cardarine supposed to raise HDL? I thought we had a member who ran a log of a long course of low dose GW (I may be confusing 2 different threads) with blood work for the purpose of fixing cholesterol.
It barely did a thing to my HDL (+6 points), LDL on the other had dropped by 50 points
 

Stewie

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I neglected to read your supplement list as a whole. I overlooked you're taking biotin, this can skew several blood tests, such as your TSH.
Most of the literature that I've read has indicated that it'll lower TSH. Tho it's one of those supplements that can distort the accuracy of several different biomarkers.

Before your next set of labs drop it too.
 
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w8tlifterty

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Much appreciated all...

Stewie, will drop it today... how long do you think to wait to reach a baseline before testing again? Also, I'll request a full thyroid panel, but what am I looking to ask for w the antibody testing.
 

lif22

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pesty4077

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This statins scam has been pushed on us too long. Sure there is a place for it. But not in the millions of people its prescribed to.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-10-ldl-cholesterol-heart-disease.html

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-l...o-link-between-cholesterol-and-heart-disease/



And then of course the myth that dietary cholesterol causing cholesterol in the blood

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...esterol/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b809db8b878e
GotGame on here takes a Statin, as well as me. We never had problems with them. He also did a nice write up about this.

Potential Statin side effects:
1. Muscle pain and damage. One of the most common complaints of people taking statins is muscle pain. ...
2. Liver damage. Occasionally, statin use could cause an increase in the level of enzymes that signal liver inflammation. ...
3. Increased blood sugar or type 2 diabetes. ...
4. Neurological side effects.

I can tell you I have NONE of those problems.
 

warlock

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GotGame on here takes a Statin, as well as me. We never had problems with them. He also did a nice write up about this.

Potential Statin side effects:
1. Muscle pain and damage. One of the most common complaints of people taking statins is muscle pain. ...
2. Liver damage. Occasionally, statin use could cause an increase in the level of enzymes that signal liver inflammation. ...
3. Increased blood sugar or type 2 diabetes. ...
4. Neurological side effects.

I can tell you I have NONE of those problems.

pesty4067,

Which statins do you take and how many milligrams?
 

nothuman

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It barely did a thing to my HDL (+6 points), LDL on the other had dropped by 50 points
Similar results for me but my HDL didn't really need fixing so it's hard to gauge. I also got my Apo-B tested while on it and it was good. Problem is I haven't tested Apo-B without cardarine before. I also feel it improved glucose.
 

Delt123

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Similar results for me but my HDL didn't really need fixing so it's hard to gauge. I also got my Apo-B tested while on it and it was good. Problem is I haven't tested Apo-B without cardarine before. I also feel it improved glucose.
My HDL is always on the lower Side (32-33). LDL used to be 130-140 but after 10weeks of 10mg cardarine per day, my next bloodwork results showed me very decent LDL values. I need to find a place where they can test for Apo-B:eek:

Cant comment on the glucose part since it didn't get tested. Overall, I like cardarine but will use it in cycles due to it's reputation as a bit of 'unknown' compound
 

nothuman

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My HDL is always on the lower Side (32-33). LDL used to be 130-140 but after 10weeks of 10mg cardarine per day, my next bloodwork results showed me very decent LDL values. I need to find a place where they can test for Apo-B:eek:

Cant comment on the glucose part since it didn't get tested. Overall, I like cardarine but will use it in cycles due to it's reputation as a bit of 'unknown' compound
Apo-B is a very important cardiac biomarker. 100x more important than HDL-C and LDL-C, but it isn't typically tested unless you go out of your way to get it tested. Cardarine was shown to lower Apo-B too.

Like you said, I would only cycle cardarine because there are still unanswered questions regarding the cancer stuff. I have not seen a single person across any forum get cancer that has used it and was willing to announce that though. Still worth treading cautiously and using only during blasts at 10-20mg. I've used a bunch of times.
 

pesty4077

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pesty4067,

Which statins do you take and how many milligrams?
Lipitor at 10 MG. A friend of mine had problems taking Lipitor, he switched over to Crestar and is doing good on that. I never had any problems and feel great.
 

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