"anabolic rebound" , hypertrophy or just temporary super compensation??

[TheOtherOne55]

What are we debating here? The validity of "the anabolic rebound" or our ability to gain the most amount of muscle starting from our leanest?

 

[beastmode121]

What are we debating here? The validity of "the anabolic rebound" or our ability to gain the most amount of muscle starting from our leanest?

Not leanest .. because leanest and stage ready are different. one is a very depleted state

So the debate is, is a stage precontest rebound is when you gain the most muscle or not and how long does it take

 

[beastmode121]

I think you have a very good plan, do not overdo it with carbohydrates, i.e. at the beginning I would add a lot of them and then only when it is needed, i.e. when the weight remains constant for a longer time, i.e. for 12-14 days, then add a little - 40-60g per day

How long do you think a rebound max muscle gain will take until you hit a threshold

 

[alfresco]

One well documented example.

Think Colorado Experiment.

All muscle memory. Arthur was very transparent about that, never said otherwise. Other people hyped it as something entirely different (he hated that, them).

It was really an ‘experiment’ to show just how little exercise it takes for regrowth. Never mind what kind of exercise. And it takes surprising little . . . I have all the workouts and knew all the involved parties.

Most people are so overtrained they are actually preventing the best possible results. Sad.

 

[KemicalKid]

How much is gonna be water and sodium intake and post contest diet put on you right away in general and into the months following where intakes are "normal" again I would wonder. Gotta be a lil somethin right there.

 

[need4tren]

I been competing for so long

And super compensation is real, glycogen overload leads to fat gain. insulin won’t help, and you need to gradually lower your anabolics and not stop cold turkey.

I don’t think making progress post show will be any different than anytime of the year if your insulin sensitivity is there

Justin Harris method of carb cycling proves you can super compensate with insulin and use low days to still diet down.

Overcompensation doesn't lead to fat gain If the carbs have a place to store. If they don't and your in a calorie surplus you will start to accumulate bodyfat. So aslong as your not trying to stay full blown every day of the week and taper your carbs down and use the glycogen your storing you'll be fine

 

[beastmode121]

Justin Harris method of carb cycling proves you can super compensate with insulin and use low days to still diet down.

Overcompensation doesn't lead to fat gain If the carbs have a place to store. If they don't and your in a calorie surplus you will start to accumulate bodyfat. So aslong as your not trying to stay full blown every day of the week and taper your carbs down and use the glycogen your storing you'll be fine

how do you exactly super compensate ? your muscle and liver can hold certain amount of glycogen. Insulin will store the rest in your adipose tissue if your glycogen stores are full.

Justin Harris uses something … called… calorie deficit even with high carb days.

Carb cycling is Not a holy grail by any means; it’s just a calorie bouncing/zikzaking..

 

[need4tren]

how do you exactly super compensate ? your muscle and liver can hold certain amount of glycogen. Insulin will store the rest in your adipose tissue if your glycogen stores are full.

Justin Harris uses something … called… calorie deficit even with high carb days.

Carb cycling is Not a holy grail by any means; it’s just a calorie bouncing/zikzaking..

The body is able to supercompensate glycogen when it has previously been depleted very low. Milos has proved this method time and time again when peaking his athletes.

With or without insulin your body will store it somewhere. But using insulin will further push your glycogen store's a little further then without it obviously.

Justin Harris also uses this in the offseason.

I never said carb cycling was a holy grail lol

 

[luki7788]

How long do you think a rebound max muscle gain will take until you hit a threshold

I don't like the concept of "rebound" at all - there is no such thing as for me - now I do a bounce for 8 weeks and then start offseason. For me, it all passes smoothly over time and the offseason starts right after the cut

 

[luki7788]

One well documented example.

Think Colorado Experiment.

All muscle memory. Arthur was very transparent about that, never said otherwise. Other people hyped it as something entirely different (he hated that, them).

It was really an ‘experiment’ to show just how little exercise it takes for regrowth. Never mind what kind of exercise. And it takes surprising little . . . I have all the workouts and knew all the involved parties.

Most people are so overtrained they are actually preventing the best possible results. Sad.

I disagree with one thing - most people today train like pussies and are under-trained rather than overtrained

 

[livinlean]

The body is able to supercompensate glycogen when it has previously been depleted very low. Milos has proved this method time and time again when peaking his athletes.

With or without insulin your body will store it somewhere. But using insulin will further push your glycogen store's a little further then without it obviously.

Justin Harris also uses this in the offseason.

I never said carb cycling was a holy grail lol

Im a huge fan of justin harris and his methods. I could not believe how round and full I was all while still getting leaner. His insulin protocol is my favourite out of the ones I have followed.

 

[livinlean]

I don't like the concept of "rebound" at all - there is no such thing as for me - now I do a bounce for 8 weeks and then start offseason. For me, it all passes smoothly over time and the offseason starts right after the cut

Got another question for you. That 8 week "bounce period" would you keep your anabolics in and give your body a break once that period has slowed down? My plan was to keep it simple in the weeks following the show and do test GH insulin for 6-8 weeks and then give my body a break.

 

[alfresco]

I disagree with one thing - most people today train like pussies and are under-trained rather than overtrained

This is a good conversation.

Yes, I agree. Should have been more specific, said “most bodybuilders would benefit greatly from training less but harder.” From what I have seen they leave a lot of gas in the tank and try mistakenly to make up for it with volume which leads to overtraining.

That being said, let the steroids and other ‘supersups’ go about their business. They are a miracle tool, unlike any other. (Just my from my limited TRT experience, I grew like a weed.) But you gotta put in the work unlike puberty where you just be and you grow.

I define under training in one way; lack of intensity of effort all the while believing that more is better, we both see it all the time.

Conversely. . .

Take a short break from training (not drugs) and if you return stronger, you have been overtraining. It’s a fine line I get that but I always return to my mantra . . . when in doubt train less but harder.

How many bodybuilders at the end of their career, or life, said they wished they had trained more?

I could write a book about it but it has already been done, and much better than I could ever do in a million year.

And thank you for your all your contributions here. I know it takes time out of your busy life but I for one appreciate what you add to this forum. Don’t always agree, but that is what makes horse racing, everybody likes something different.

 

[luki7788]

This is a good conversation.

Yes, I agree. Should have been more specific, said “most bodybuilders would benefit greatly from training less but harder.” From what I have seen they leave a lot of gas in the tank and try mistakenly to make up for it with volume which leads to overtraining.

That being said, let the steroids and other ‘supersups’ go about their business. They are a miracle tool, unlike any other. (Just my from my limited TRT experience, I grew like a weed.) But you gotta put in the work unlike puberty where you just be and you grow.

I define under training in one way; lack of intensity of effort all the while believing that more is better, we both see it all the time.

Conversely. . .

Take a short break from training (not drugs) and if you return stronger, you have been overtraining. It’s a fine line I get that but I always return to my mantra . . . when in doubt train less but harder.

How many bodybuilders at the end of their career, or life, said they wished they had trained more?

I could write a book about it but it has already been done, and much better than I could ever do in a million year.

And thank you for your all your contributions here. I know it takes time out of your busy life but I for one appreciate what you add to this forum. Don’t always agree, but that is what makes horse racing, everybody likes something different.

Here I agree with you 100% and as an example I will give training on RIR according to Mike Isratel - with all due respect to Mike I consider him an extremely intelligent guy with great knowledge but training in the style he promotes does not bring the expected results and as you write it yourself shows the superiority of intensity over volume

 

[beastmode121]

I don't like the concept of "rebound" at all - there is no such thing as for me - now I do a bounce for 8 weeks and then start offseason. For me, it all passes smoothly over time and the offseason starts right after the cut

How long do you go on a TRT or cruise after the 8 weeks bounce after a cut ?

 

[beastmode121]

The body is able to supercompensate glycogen when it has previously been depleted very low. Milos has proved this method time and time again when peaking his athletes.

With or without insulin your body will store it somewhere. But using insulin will further push your glycogen store's a little further then without it obviously.

Justin Harris also uses this in the offseason.

I never said carb cycling was a holy grail lol

It is interesting if insulin overloads your glycogen even if their full somehow. how much more glycogen can be stored though..

If that’s the case; how come regan grimes wasn’t “extra” full for the Arnold if he’s workin with Milos.

 

[LATS]

Once again the secret is INSULIN SENSITIVITY!!!!

Insulin sensitivity is the key period.. if that's shot good luck in trying to gain muscle.. fat will come much easier than muscle.. only in the last decade or so has that realization started to take hold.. that is why you now see berberine, metformin, etc being a regular part of a bodybuilders nutrition plan.

 

[luki7788]

How long do you go on a TRT or cruise after the 8 weeks bounce after a cut ?

to be honest i never go down for a trt lol
there will be some time on trt and I doubt that it would be typical trt - I'm just honest

 

[beastmode121]

to be honest i never go down for a trt lol
there will be some time on trt and I doubt that it would be typical trt - I'm just honest

lol what’s your usual cruise dose to keep your size when you take a break ?

 

[need4tren]

It is interesting if insulin overloads your glycogen even if their full somehow. how much more glycogen can be stored though..

If that’s the case; how come regan grimes wasn’t “extra” full for the Arnold if he’s workin with Milos.

The body only super compensates when it's stores are brought down low previously to the fill up. If you try and keep blazing full your just gonna spill over and get fat. I mean it's gonna depend on how much muscle you have. Justin Harris was saying an extra 100g of carbs with the Insulin.

I mean the best example is Dennis wolf pounding 5000g of carbs in 2 days prior to that Olympia. He was full as a fucking house and dry