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Anabolics in rebound phase

warlock

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I've been experimenting with low dose slin. My main goal was to find a way to increase my HGH dose without feeling sleepy during the day. I started with 1 IU slin injections, then 2, then 3. I'm definitely noticing bigger pumps now. I don't have enough experience to know how it will affect me long term. I'll get my IGF-1 tested soon to see how the insulin affects it.

Right now I'm doing 3 IU slin with 0.5 IU HGH preworkout and postworkout every weekday. I have a shake with 30 g carbs and 50 g protein pre and post. I do another 1 IU HGH before bed on Monday - Thursday. I raise my prebed dose on Friday and Saturday, since I'm not worried about afternoon sleepiness on the weekends. I'm trying to work up to 21 IU/week.

I've been taking DNP 2 or 3 days in a row early in the week without changing my weekday diet. I'm a strong responder. I feel warm within an hour of taking it even at 100 mg. I don't get side effects at all other than feeling warmer and sweating a little more in the gym.

I log every workout to see my progress over time. I'm getting stronger and building more muscular endurance every week. I look visibly bigger and leaner every week without the average scale number changing much. I gain weight on the weekends with higher calories and more HGH, then lose it all by the next weekend.

I feel I can reach my goal this year with just small adjustments, no hard bulks or cuts. It has been fun and rewarding after the shit year that was 2020. I'm at the point now where I'm proud of my body again. I might even post a pic on the picture thread here once I'm at 10% / 240. :)

I think low dose slin is a fantastic tool when used correctly. Lower gear with a sprinkle of slin and GH can get you farther than most would think.

Never heard of anyone using low dose DNP 2-3 days in a row, then stop for a few days and repeat the following week.

That'd be a great goal, to be able to post a photo on the picture thread once you are at your goal. I'm sure you can do this. You've a great plan in place and the right attitude as well.
 

juggy38

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I think low dose slin is a fantastic tool when used correctly. Lower gear with a sprinkle of slin and GH can get you farther than most would think.

Never heard of anyone using low dose DNP 2-3 days in a row, then stop for a few days and repeat the following week.

That'd be a great goal, to be able to post a photo on the picture thread once you are at your goal. I'm sure you can do this. You've a great plan in place and the right attitude as well.

sometimes I’ll take 250mg at night, then 500mg the next morning and do a 24-36h fast. It’s a easy way to get into full blown ketosis registered by 1.5-2 mmol on my keto mojo
 

Delt123

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A simple example for a guy getting into the depths of a diet and trying to spare as much tissue as possible ...

workout days:

meal 1: protein/fat/fishoil
Meal 2 : protein/veggies/fishoil
Meal before training: slow carbs/protein
30 minutes prior to training : 2-3 iu humulin R +GH if you have some.

*intra-EAAs, creatine, glutamine, just enough carbs to keep BG stable, maybe 20-30g depending on pre workout meal and bodypart

immediately PWO, egg whites and veggies- this will supply trace carbs to keep BG stable as insulin is probably peaking at hour 2

last two meals are protein and EFAs if you need more to hit your omega 3 requirements

non workout days:

GH, 1 hour later some fasted cardio.

Breakfast basically PSMF and veggies+EFAs. Pin 2-3iu humulin 30-45 minutes pre meal. Carry on with PSMF, and if your really wanting to maximize anabolism, maybe another dose for meal 4 or 5.

basically it’s PSMF with tiny doses of insulin. It works well. You’ll need a little refeed every 4-5th day depending on lifting volume. This goes best with lower volume lifting. I wouldn’t try creeping death leg days on a protocol like this
This sounds pretty ‘chill’ dosing wise. What aas doses is he using with this?

How far out (or how many weeks till the diet ends) with this type of diet? I recently tried a relatively high(er) carb, very low fat approach while cutting and enjoyed it a lot. Think it would go hand in hand with some slin usage.

I’ll cut further soon after this break and might try some aspects of the approach you’ve listed.
 

beans

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If I were to implement gh would it be more beneficial to run 5iu over 3iu? Or is that not too much of a difference?
If that would make a drastic difference I have no issue spending the extra for a larger dose. Also very new to gh, haven't ran it for extended periods of time. 2 month here and there. Aiming to use for full year this time around.
 

beans

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Also, when pairing insulin with meals, what would be an optimal way for that?
When I do an intra it's a eaa/hbcd mix. 30g carbs.
All my meals have the same carb amount through out the day.
So let's say my carbs with each meal (6 meals) is 75g (excluding intra 30g carbs) So pre is 75g, intra is 30g, post is 75g.
If I do slin I'd assume 10iu for the pre workout. Will cover intra and post carbs. If I go hypo bump up carbs a bit more, if no hypo maybe pull back on dose a little to see if I can get away with less slin.
I used 75g since that's a usual number for low days in offseason. Didn't just toss a random number out there.

I know it's not rocket science and I'm overthinking, but trying to get easiest understanding on it.
 

heavyhitter

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Also, when pairing insulin with meals, what would be an optimal way for that?
When I do an intra it's a eaa/hbcd mix. 30g carbs.
All my meals have the same carb amount through out the day.
So let's say my carbs with each meal (6 meals) is 75g (excluding intra 30g carbs) So pre is 75g, intra is 30g, post is 75g.
If I do slin I'd assume 10iu for the pre workout. Will cover intra and post carbs. If I go hypo bump up carbs a bit more, if no hypo maybe pull back on dose a little to see if I can get away with less slin.
I used 75g since that's a usual number for low days in offseason. Didn't just toss a random number out there.

I know it's not rocket science and I'm overthinking, but trying to get easiest understanding on it.
The ideal way to use insulin with meals would be to eat the carbs that are allotted in your diet for that meal, measure bg, and use enough insulin to cover.
you don’t want to use additional carbs to cover going hypo post workout. Again...eat the carbs you need and use the insulin to shuttle. Adding carbs to cover your insulin is why guys get fat when using it. I lean out and get bigger when using insulin this way
 

beans

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The ideal way to use insulin with meals would be to eat the carbs that are allotted in your diet for that meal, measure bg, and use enough insulin to cover.
you don’t want to use additional carbs to cover going hypo post workout. Again...eat the carbs you need and use the insulin to shuttle. Adding carbs to cover your insulin is why guys get fat when using it. I lean out and get bigger when using insulin this way
What numbers am I aiming to look for bg wise? This is where I get lost.
And when to test it?
 

VaginaBoob89

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in my opinion it is not a good idea to go down to trt doses after a competition, in general, if I am to be honest, if you want to be a competitive competitor and make progress in the amount of muscle mass or increase weight category, there will be no room for something like trt doses for a long time

What would I do if I wanted to increase the weight class?
I'd leave the middle testosterone dose + medium / low nandrolone + a little dht (proviron) + a good dose of gh and the right amounts of insulin for synergy with gh to push up the igf and do a rebound to possibly get back to a similar weight at the end of the offseason but much better quality. Once this is achieved, the real offseason begins - you increase the test and nandrolone, you can add eq or primo, and you should add 15-20 pounds on the weight already gained during the rebunds

Luki providing the quality advice for young bodybuilders as always. Quick folllow up though

Should we keep clen+t3 in and taper off of them or just drop them straight away? Over what time frame are we looking to get back to old 'end of offseason' weight? I feel like I can do that in about 3 weeks, but maybe this is too quick and I should be shooting for more like 8-10?
 

luki7788

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Luki providing the quality advice for young bodybuilders as always. Quick folllow up though

Should we keep clen+t3 in and taper off of them or just drop them straight away? Over what time frame are we looking to get back to old 'end of offseason' weight? I feel like I can do that in about 3 weeks, but maybe this is too quick and I should be shooting for more like 8-10?
In my opinion, when it comes to means such as clen, tren, masteron, orals, I drop them right after the show, if this is my last start of the season. T3 is a bit different, but I use them all year round due to gh use but if you don't, I recommend stopping and switching to t4, I always recommend a low dose of t4 in offseason 50-100mcg depending on blood results.

How soon should you come back? it depends on how much you shed to get the stage look. But if you weren't fat in the offseason (i.e., you were 15-20 pounds more than you were on stage) then you should come back to close weight in 4-6 weeks and still be very low bf but very full. Then you start your real offseason and try to put in another good 15-20 pounds of the new size which will get you 8-10 pounds more on stage if all goes to plan.
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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What numbers am I aiming to look for bg wise? This is where I get lost.
And when to test it?
Look up normal blood glucose levels, you want them in range , upon awaking 100 or less is fine , some say they need to be 90 or less

Two hours after meals 120 or less

No need to use skin if bg levels are in range is what I've heard
 

warlock

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Look up normal blood glucose levels, you want them in range , upon awaking 100 or less is fine , some say they need to be 90 or less

Two hours after meals 120 or less

No need to use skin if bg levels are in range is what I've heard

Yea, I'd keep fasted glucose between 75 to 85, definitely no more than 90.
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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Yea, I'd keep fasted glucose between 75 to 85, definitely no more than 90.
For normal BG levels 90 is good and carbs are still going to go into where you want them

Remember alpha-lopiac acid does a good job of lowering blood glucose levels. I've tested this with my own lab work and 200 mgs work well. I take it with a meal before resistance exercise

Now if they are 110 upon awaking or higher I can see lower doses insulin around resistance exercise for carbs , aminos, creatine to go where you want them more efficiently. That said for myself good ole ala lowers mine very well, according to my labs, it is used in people with type two diabetes

I've used just about every insulin mimetic over the counter and I find ala does it's job
 

warlock

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For normal BG levels 90 is good and carbs are still going to go into where you want them

Remember alpha-lopiac acid does a good job of lowering blood glucose levels. I've tested this with my own lab work and 200 mgs work well. I take it with a meal before resistance exercise

Now if they are 110 upon awaking or higher I can see lower doses insulin around resistance exercise for carbs , aminos, creatine to go where you want them more efficiently. That said for myself good ole ala lowers mine very well, according to my labs, it is used in people with type two diabetes

I've used just about every insulin mimetic over the counter and I find ala does it's job

I do ALA too for this purpose as well as for all the antioxidant properties it offers. What brand do you like?
 

heavyhitter

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Look up normal blood glucose levels, you want them in range , upon awaking 100 or less is fine , some say they need to be 90 or less

Two hours after meals 120 or less

No need to use skin if bg levels are in range is what I've heard
No medical need, but it can give the pancreas a rest from all the carbs were requiring it to process, and it can really help with adding some muscle and leaning out.especially for someone like me who’s metabolism requires very large amounts of carbs and calories. I consume upwards of 800 grams of carbs daily when bulking
 

warlock

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No medical need, but it can give the pancreas a rest from all the carbs were requiring it to process, and it can really help with adding some muscle and leaning out.especially for someone like me who’s metabolism requires very large amounts of carbs and calories. I consume upwards of 800 grams of carbs daily when bulking

Yea, that's a lot of carbs and I can see how the use of smart slin can only help. Do you use mostly fast acting slin with your meals or do you also use a long-acting insulin?
 

heavyhitter

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Warlock I use novolin r since it’s cheap and easy to get
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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I do ALA too for this purpose as well as for all the antioxidant properties it offers. What brand do you like?
I use good spring valley brand started

taking r ala since , started with 2004,ast-ss brand

Yup antioxidant and I think it recycles vitamin c
 

beans

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Yea, I'd keep fasted glucose between 75 to 85, definitely no more than 90.
I'm assuming once bg goes above these numbers fasted, reduce carbs? I think I comprehend the slin usage now.
Take a dose with meals to better optimize the carbs. Too much slin and not enough carbs, hypo.
And 2 hours later post meal, if bg is over 120 with slin, pull back carbs?

Example,
Wake up bg is 85ish, have meal 1 with 60g carbs, and idk, 5iu as a starting point. 2 hours later bg is 115, I should up food? Try it again next day, with 75g carbs and 5iu again. Same result 115bg 2 hours post.
Following day up again to 105g carbs and 5iu, 2 hours post bg is 130. Pull back carbs?
I know I sound like a moron, but the knowledge is here, I just need a better grasp. I'll be using log more than likely.
Also, if I don't care to use it all day, should I optimize peri workout?
So meal 1, 2/pre, and post? As long as bg is within perimeters?
 

warlock

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I'm assuming once bg goes above these numbers fasted, reduce carbs? I think I comprehend the slin usage now.
Take a dose with meals to better optimize the carbs. Too much slin and not enough carbs, hypo.
And 2 hours later post meal, if bg is over 120 with slin, pull back carbs?

Example,
Wake up bg is 85ish, have meal 1 with 60g carbs, and idk, 5iu as a starting point. 2 hours later bg is 115, I should up food? Try it again next day, with 75g carbs and 5iu again. Same result 115bg 2 hours post.
Following day up again to 105g carbs and 5iu, 2 hours post bg is 130. Pull back carbs?
I know I sound like a moron, but the knowledge is here, I just need a better grasp. I'll be using log more than likely.
Also, if I don't care to use it all day, should I optimize peri workout?
So meal 1, 2/pre, and post? As long as bg is within perimeters?
Yes, fasting glucose should ideally be between 75 and 85. Once it gets to 90 or above, you're becoming somewhat insulin resistant.

Depending on how insulin sensitive you are, you can start with 3 or 4 units of slin with the 60g carbs. I recommend taking your glucose again 90 minutes post-meal and keep it to no more than 115 (less is better). If it is above 115, next time, use 1-2 more units of slin with that meal you ate 90 minutes before. You can do this with every meal that has carbs. Some people only use it pre and post-workout, but if your carb intake is high in general, you're likely going to need to use slin with other meals too, or simply add in a long-acting insulin such as lantus.
 

beans

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Yes, fasting glucose should ideally be between 75 and 85. Once it gets to 90 or above, you're becoming somewhat insulin resistant.

Depending on how insulin sensitive you are, you can start with 3 or 4 units of slin with the 60g carbs. I recommend taking your glucose again 90 minutes post-meal and keep it to no more than 115 (less is better). If it is above 115, next time, use 1-2 more units of slin with that meal you ate 90 minutes before. You can do this with every meal that has carbs. Some people only use it pre and post-workout, but if your carb intake is high in general, you're likely going to need to use slin with other meals too, or simply add in a long-acting insulin such as lantus.
This answers it all man! I knew I was overthinking. Just wanted to know for sure, before I misuse it. I'm going to stick to around workout meals for my post show phase. And maybe permanent. i don't need a ton of carbs, my offseason carbs got pushed to 720 a day, and I was pretty fat and additional fat wasn't favorable. Didn't give crazy strength for the extra mass, that's when I just started dieting down.
Not saying I won't do 1 more dreamers bulk, but I'm aiming to hold off a bit
 

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