Arthur Jones and his views

[alfresco]

Many have contacted me doubting I was even there (in Florida) and met some of the
people I have mentioned. Please see below from one of my many trips to Lake Helen.

The first foto I took is of Casey on a prototype squat machine designed for your legs to
move independently. This machine never went into production as it was deemed unsafe,
was prone to ejecting the trainee out of the machine. Not good. (I have a foto of Casey
on a squat machine, the one used in the Colorado Experiment where he squatted on a
flat platform which I will post up later.)

The second foto I took was Casey on a force plate in the the motion picture studio where
Arthur was demonstrating, filming the effects of explosive movements. Casey was in 'walking
around' condition, a condition that most bodybuilders would easily settle for at any time

The second foto I too is of Casey performing a triceps exercise on the Multi Exercise machine.
Again, just 'normal' condition for him. A genetic freak ya think?

The last foto is of Casey and me after I returned from 3 months is East Africa culling animals
in Kenya, sleeping and cooking in the bush, cooking over a camp fire for three months. I lost
about 30 pounds (no excuse) working 12 houses a day, culling animals at night with a spot
light and a high powered rifle and then preparing the meet in the abattoir for sale in the local
villages. Not a 'sexy' way to hunt but very effective.

Again, Casey in normal condition. Look at those arms! (Don't look at me.)

 

[nidnoy]

I have not looked at the video recently, but I think Arthur may have used something
called a 'pre-stretch reflex' here. A pre-stretch reflex is something akin to baseball
player bringing his bat back just slightly before executing a swing which recutes more
fibers. Same thing for a golfer or when somebody jumps, you dip a bit before jumping
or when you go to punch somebody, you rear back then a bit more before you bunch.
Many other athletes do this which I think do it instinctively with out knowing the cause
and effect relationship I suspect but do know know.

This can be used very effectively in weight training (you see some bodybuilders do
this, Jay?) do this to some degree. But it must not be taken to extreme as it can be
counter productive. Do it just a little and it can be very productive.

Truly explosive movements have no place in weigh training and can be dangerous
if taken to extreme. There are many examples of this so I won't go into detail.
Stopping at any point during the execution of an exercise is safe but I do not
know if it "would negate explosive type reps." Again, a slight amount of a pre-
stretch reflex can and is helpful.

As far as the speed of movement, there is no secret cadence. As long as the weight
is under control, you are good to go. But accentuating the negative part of the exercise
is productive. I believe he said, is more more productive. Again, not 'super slow' as
some advocate is not the way to go with the exception of negatives, which will help
break through sticking points in training, especially in regards to negative only exercise.

I do know a man that added one inch to his arms just be slowing down the negative
part of his curls and triceps exercises. That was all he did to get that extra growth.

More on that when I post up some interesting examples of negative only exercise.

Thanks for the reply. It is something I need to grow on as a lifted, getting the most out of each rep

 

[maldorf]

I think it was to remove all momentum. To make sure that you moved the weight, not the
weight moving you.

This very common among those who train with weights; momentum. (There is a time and
place for a little of it, but not in the middle if a set.) If memory serves, Arthur believed that
you should be able it stop at any point during the execution of an exercise. If you could
not stop, control the weight, it was too much weight and momentum was moving the
weight for you and not the muscle.

But from the people I have talked to that were trained by Arthur in the infamous 'Quonset hut'
at the DeLand High School (I have been there but way later) where he coached out some
amazing results from people, his training style may have been a bit looser. But I was not there,
was before my time unfortunately so this is second hand info. But Ellington Darden has said
the same thing in print somewhere . . . his training style was a bit 'loser' early on.

Thats one thing about Keiser machines, the gym I use now has them all. It uses air for resistance and it takes momentum out of it completely. Its a strange feeling, and it provides more resistance at parts of the movement where you are strongest.

Commercial & Home Fitness Equipment | Keiser

Keiser fitness equipment is engineered with natural human movement in mind. No other fitness manufacturer is as dedicated to the human body as we are.

www.keiser.com

 

[Ashop]

Awesome stuff, @alfresco Thank you!

Ditto! That was awesome. Always an admirer of Arthur Jone's work.

 

[alfresco]

Thats one thing about Keiser machines, the gym I use now has them all. It uses air for resistance and it takes momentum out of it completely. Its a strange feeling, and it provides more resistance at parts of the movement where you are strongest.

M, thanks for your post.

Variable resistance, momentum.

I know nothing about the Keiser machines so I will not comment but do know that
people, since Arthur brought it to the forefront, have gone to great lengths to
capitalize on the concept of variable resistance (I have a cardboard cutout of one
of Arthur's cams. I should send a foto of it.) and have thought of different ways
to vary the resistance. Even Emeric has a video of an inventive way of training using
negative or 'variable' resistance. Good on him I say.

Another mechanical way is the link below where . . . concentric, weight stack at 45 deg.,
eccentric weight stack is vertical. Makes sense. Less resistance on the way up, more
on the way down.

Ellington Darden HIT Coaching

With more than 75 books published, and 50 years of hardcore experience, legendary physique and fitness icon Ellington Darden is here to set us straight, and tell it like it is.

www.drdarden.com

Movie

After the Nautilus multi-station triceps / biceps machine, another curling machine
that I know of was in Vince's Gym and had a round cam, I think manufactured by
Ed Jubinville (or Vince since he was very innovative), was advertised in Iron Man
magazine. Ed made lots of exercise equipment, a curling machine among them,
but it had a round cam, did not vary the resistance. So a curling machine is not new.
One that varied the resistance was. I don't know if it predated Nautilus or not but
I think it came after since so may people were trying to capitalize on the concept.
But why do a round cam is the obvious question.

Chains were one of the first things that Arthur thought of to vary the resistance.
Chains on the ground = no to little resistance. Top of the movement (think bench
press) more chains off the ground = more weight, more resistance.

A gear box I believe was the second way he thought of to vary the resistance.

Then came the cam.

When Arthur gave Bill Pearl a plate loading biceps / triceps machine, Bill modified it
to a selectorized weight stack for 'convenience' which totally changed the resistance
curve; Arthur was irate. Something to remember is that Arthur and Bill Pearl (who I
have talked to about this) go way back. He was in one of Arthur's films (which was
terrible) way before Arthur started Nautilus.

Prior to or during the popularizing or 'perfecting' the variable resistance concept and
having a proven prototype, Arthur offered it all, free of charge to Bill who ignored it,
turned it down, thought it worthless. Oh well, more's the pity.

Finally momentum. The MedX machines that Arthur designed reduced the momentum
by limiting the distance the weights (stack) had to move. You might do a overhead
press for example and move your hands a distance of two feet but the weight stack
may move only six inches (an eerie sight). That is easy to engineer but is a novel idea
that Arthur had. Remove the momentum and you reduce a whole host of other problems.

To be fair, as they say, most inventions are built upon the shoulders of others.

 

[maldorf]

Finally momentum. The MedX machines that Arthur designed reduced the momentum
by limiting the distance the weights (stack) had to move. You might do a overhead
press for example and move your hands a d

Didn't that make it easier to lift the weight, so you would need the stack to be heavier? I suppose if you did it for movements that aren't major compound movements, avoid squats for example it would be ok. Was that a problem ever? Really cool idea to remove momentum.

 

[D2]

alfreso, hav u seen the mentzer bro trained?

and i believed towards the end of casey's career he went back to higher volume training.

 

[alfresco]

Didn't that make it easier to lift the weight, so you would need the stack to be heavier? I suppose if you did it for movements that aren't major compound movements, avoid squats for example it would be ok. Was that a problem ever? Really cool idea to remove momentum.

M, no. It's all about re-directional pulleys and the diameter of them and how you
can use them to your advantage or disadvantage (more to come on that). You
can make any weight feel the same weight, lighter, or heavier, or much heavier
as in the case of the negative cam. Read the attached article. A very ingenious
way to provide variable resistance. You are a smart guy, you will understand the
physics of it.

www.arthurjonesexercise.com/Athletic/DuoSquat.PDF

"I trained Ray many times in 1983 at the Nautilus headquarters in Lake Helen, Florida.
But we never used barbells or any free-weight equipment. Thus, I never saw him do
a barbell squat.

Ray was slightly stronger than Casey Viator on the leg extension, leg curl, and leg
press machines. He also used the entire weight stack on Jones's Duo-Squat machine,
which was introduced in 1985. He did 10 reps with 500 pounds and I never saw
another guy anywhere even do a single rep with that much resistance.

I remember Mike Mentzer saying that he'd seen Ray doing barbell squats with 900 pounds.
My guess, as I told Chris Mason, was Ray could have done 750 pounds on a powerlifting-
style barbell squat."

Ellington Darden
02/25/07

In a interview Bill Pearl said that the guy that was the strongest on all sets, reps,
and exercises was Ray Mentzer. While in a gym in Germany Ray sat down on the
Nautilus bicep machine and lifted the entire stack (240 pounds)with one arm!
After Ray went to the showers Bill tried with both arms and could not get one rep.
He went on to say that his attitude towards Ray changed tremendously. He also
said that Mike was equally as strong.

 

[alfresco]

alfreso, hav u seen the mentzer bro trained?

and i believed towards the end of casey's career he went back to higher volume training.

I saw Mike (never saw Ray) train at Golds Gym in Venice Beach, the new one or at
least it was new when I was there. And yes, he trained entirely different than what
he advocated. When he was in Lake Helen working for Arthur, he trained how he was
told to train but from what I understand he was 'untrainable' and was let go eventually
for a wide variety of reasons. That is about all I know,. Sorry, I don't know where
that fits in with Casey's career.

I know Casey went 'West' eventually and trained at Golds in LA, perhaps under contract
with Weider but I don't know. He went back to volume training but never looked as good
as he did in FL. He did win a Pro show but he looked like crap in my opinion. Very stringy
and worn out, not fresh and full. He was obviously past his prime. After his stint in LA I
think he went back to FL and just vanished.

 

[USMuscle9403]

I saw Mike (never saw Ray) train at Golds Gym in Venice Beach, the new one or at
least it was new when I was there. And yes, he trained entirely different than what
he advocated. When he was in Lake Helen working for Arthur, he trained how he was
told to train but from what I understand he was 'untrainable' and was let go eventually
for a wide variety of reasons. That is about all I know,. Sorry, I don't know where
that fits in with Casey's career.

I know Casey went 'West' eventually and trained at Golds in LA, perhaps under contract
with Weider but I don't know. He went back to volume training but never looked as good
as he did in FL. He did win a Pro show but he looked like crap in my opinion. Very stringy
and worn out, not fresh and full. He was obviously past his prime. After his stint in LA I
think he went back to FL and just vanished.

Mentzer definitely trained differently from what he advocated, or at least did for most of his career. He also told everyone to be by shy with overeating and drugs, he sure wasn't lol. He would eat ice cream until the day of a contest.

 

[alfresco]

Another good article about Arthur Jones. The only inaccuracy is "In the Sixties he had
both an elephant preserve and a game farm in Kenya." I don't believe Arthur had these
in Kenya. Know he lived in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) in a place Called Rhine Hill. I
have fotos of his place that I scan and post when I get a chance.

He had elephants and a film studio here and perhaps a game farm but it was not in
Kenya where I believe he was only there once filming police dogs (vicious) for his
TV show Wild cargo.

 

[alfresco]

Franco Columbu trains arms with Arthur Jones.

 

[lookslikesausage]

how did Arthur feel about drugs/peds? protein intake?

 

[alfresco]

A couple of training articles and some photographs. Casey's training routine for the
Mr. A (which he won) and Arthur's comments about it. I have not clue how long it
took him but I know it was more than an hour, . . . probably way more. And I have
included the results of the training. Remember that Casey was 19 years old at the
time and was unusually responsive to weight training.

Also included a foto of Casey at 16 years old. An impressive improvement. But then
again Casey had very impressive genetics and the ability and the willingness to work
extremely hard albeit he had, as it appears to be supervised and encouraged. I know
another person (who was mentioned in the one of the articles, SI?) that was 'there
at the time' and he said that Arthur had the ability to get 110% out of you. He was
a a very stern taskmaster.

Arthur eventually reduced his recommended training times and the number of sets,
found that it was over training. When Casey trained again for competition, the 1978
NABBA MR. Universe in London where he was defeated by David Johns, he still
trained total body 3 days a week but I have no clue what his workout routine was.
Perhaps Ellington Darden or Jim Flanagan knows as they trained him (Arthur was
too busy at that time) but I never asked them when I met them which is unfortunate,
only out of curiosity, because I had the perfect opportunity to do so when I visited Ell
at his house in FL, but did not inquire.

 

[danieltx]

alfresco, thanks for sharing all this. You've become one of the custodians of bodybuilding history with these materials.

 

[maldorf]

alfresco, thanks for sharing all this. You've become one of the custodians of bodybuilding history with these materials.

Yeah, we are all thankful to be able to hear your stories. I wasn't in the middle of the bodybuilding scene like you and a bit too young. You seem to have been right in the middle of it all! Wish I could have met Arthur Jones.

Closest I can come is knowing and being trained for a few months by John Parillo. That was a thrill! It seems like these days their aren't men like Arthur and John, that age is gone. I don't talk with John anymore, but would like to ask him if he was influenced by Arthur Jones.

 

[Creep]

Nautilus brings me back to my beginnings, YMCA as a pre teen

 

[Dens228]

When I played football in college our team workout program was based on Nautilus. To be honest most of us went to the school gym later in the day to workout in a more conventional manner.

 

[alfresco]

When I played football in college our team workout program was based on Nautilus. To be honest most of us went to the school gym later in the day to workout in a more conventional manner.

I think it is natural to go back to old familiar ways. Must be human nature regardless of how successful you 'were.'

Arthur had some experience with 'team' training. Here is what he had to say . . .

"I was in the audience in Columbus, Ohio, in 1970, when the Russian heavyweight lifter cleaned and jerked 500 pounds for the first time;
but it seems to have been overlooked that a much smaller man (from Belgium, I believe) immediately afterwards lifted an even heavier
weight, and did so in spite of the fact that he appeared to be about 150 pounds lighter than the big Russian. This lift went unrecorded
because he “lost it,” got the weight to arms length overhead but then lost his balance and dropped the weight; but he certainly lifted it.

And if you are really interested in outstanding weightlifting records you should look someplace a lot closer than Russia; try DeLand, Florida.
In the state of Florida, weightlifting has been a competitive sport at the high-school level for more than forty years, while all Florida high
schools do not have weightlifting teams a lot of them do. But, prior to 1972, the DeLand school did not. Mentioned in an earlier article in
this series, during the summer of 1972 we conducted a research program in an attempt to determine the value of a “negative only” style
of training, and the results were outstanding; this training was performed in a gym that I built for the DeLand high school, a gym that was
equipped with a full line of Nautilus machines and about a dozen Olympic barbells, together with thousands of pounds of barbell plates.

Having been fired from his job as the DeLand football coach because his team lost all of their games during the previous season (losses that
were not the fault of the coach, but that is a matter I do not wish to mention), a man named Bill Bradford was looking for another sport to coach;
at the time I doubt that he really knew the difference between a barbell and a palm tree, but he was not stupid, and he saw the results that we
produced with negative only exercise. So he started a weightlifting team. Seven years later, more than 100 weightlifting meets later, his team
was undefeated and untied; within a matter of a few months after they started training, he had boys in their middle teens who were bench
pressing more than double their body weight. And how did he train his lifters? Negative only. Two weekly workouts with only one set of each
exercise, with from six to eight repetitions in each set. This record is probably unprecedented, in any sport. At that point I told him . . .
“Stop while you are ahead; you have already set records that will probably never be equaled, but if you continue then eventually you will lose
through no fault of your own, a bus will run off the road on the way to a meet, or a bad outbreak of the flu will hit your team members,
or something else will happen to break your winning streak, so quit now.” And he did quit. A new coach took over and promptly started losing.

Why? Because he went back to using conventional training methods, stopped using the negative only exercise that Bradford used. And having
been regularly trounced by Bradford’s team for seven years, how many other coaches adopted his training method? None. Why not? Damned
if I know; but I do know that it is impossible to explain insanity, and I will not try to do so. If it could be explained it would not be insanity.
But it can be recognized for just what it is."

 

[maldorf]

And how did he train his lifters? Negative only. Two weekly workouts with only one set of each
exercise, with from six to eight repetitions in each set. This record is probably unprecedented, in any sport. At that point I told him . . .
“Stop while you are ahead; you have already set records that will probably never be equaled, but if you continue then eventually you will lose
through no fault of your own, a bus will run off the road on the way to a meet, or a bad outbreak of the flu will hit your team members,
or something else will happen to break your winning streak, so quit now.” And he did quit. A new coach took over and promptly started losing.

Why? Because he went back to using conventional training methods, stopped using the negative only exercise that Bradford used. And having
been regularly trounced by Bradford’s team for seven years, how many other coaches adopted his training method? None. Why not? Damned
if I know; but I do know that it is impossible to explain insanity, and I will not try to do so. If it could be explained it would not be insanity.
But it can be recognized for just what it is."

That's amazing! I know negatives are shown to be effective, but not to that extent. That is great. Doing negatives only is a lot of work for the teammates and would require a lot of focus. Doing negatives on a nautilus machine would be hard to do I think. I never did that. Similar to the way Emeric likes his guys to train.