Best Astragalus supplement (Quality & Value)

Massive G · Oct 5, 2018

nothuman said:
Are you also taking Astragalus? I always had normal kidney function with a regular GFR of 80-90 but once I added astragalus for overall health benefits, my GFR went up to 105 in just a few weeks. Vitamin E has never had that effect on me or anyone I know of.

Two things I know can improve GFR is 1. lower hematocrit/hemoglobin and 2. Astragalus

I'd be curious to know if you see an improvement in yours

I see your point - I guess we all have impaired function compared to normal people.

So always room for improvement.
mine is lower than 80 so I will let you know, hemo is always around 50-55 been under the care of a hematologist for 15 years ever since my hemo was up and docs were ragging on me in my heavy juicing days. Doc says my body is RBC machine on or off AAS. Trust me I have had every test known to man for hemo issues.....isotopes mixed in my blood and re-injected and scanned, bone marrow biopsy testing for genetic factors etc etc etc.

I saw a significant change in my serum albumin levels when I started taking B-1, like I said mild nephrotic syndrome was present in my lower calves and the swelling went down almost immediately after a weeks use of 500 mg a day. so there is merit to supplements and the positive side effects.

MyNameIsJeff · Oct 5, 2018

nothuman said:
Sorry I do not. I got this from a forum member here who I think said was a kidney nurse who was reporting what he experienced from patients. It was in the Dallas McCarver RIP thread last year. I think the effect is minimal though if it's even true

Here is the quote
"If your gfr isn't dropping then the kidneys are well hydrated and the RBC, hct component isn't thickening the blood to the point where they strain"

Only thing i could find in support is this one case study of someone with polycythemia vera who developed kidney disease. PV obviously is different from the secondary polycythemia seen in AAS users, but even there the incidence of kidney impairment is extremely rare:

Very few cases of renal complications of PV are reported in the literature [1–4]. Our patient developed nephrotic range proteinuria 4 years after the diagnosis of PV; the histology of a renal biopsy showed focal segmental glomerulosclerosis with tip lesion. Tip lesions are an abnormality of the glomerulo‐tubular junction probably due to prolapse of visceral epithelial cells into the tubular origin that have been described as early segmental lesions and are typical of secondary glomerulopathies [5]. Tip lesions are associated with a relatively good prognosis [6]. A secondary glomerular impairment due to PV was diagnosed, given the onset of renal symptoms 4 years after the diagnosis of PV and the histological findings. The marked regression of symptoms and proteinuria after consistent PV therapy by venesection supports this diagnosis.

PV associated with parenchymal renal disease has been occasionally reported; however, only five cases developed renal impairment after a history of PV [1–4]. Factors associated with polycythaemia such as hyperperfusion of glomeruli, hyperviscosity‐induced circulatory disturbance, and especially vascular thrombosis might contribute to the pathogenesis and progression of renal disease in PV. Sharma et al. [3] described a patient who presented with new‐onset proteinuria 2 years after PV had been diagnosed. As in our patient, they found a marked reduction in proteinuria after normalization of haematocrit. Renal biopsy in their patient revealed focal sclerosis and they suggested altered renal haemodynamics in PV as pathogenic factors. Other authors described diffuse mesangial proliferation and focal tubular atrophy with interstitial fibrosis in patients with PV [2,3]. In our patient demarcated segmental lesions of the glomerular tuft were noted and electron microscopy revealed marked vacuolization of podocytes typical of glomerular tip lesions. Early glomerular tip lesions are thought to have a relatively good prognosis; however, inframembranous hyalinosis or progression to global sclerosis may also evolve.

Consistent phlebotomy for lowering the haematocrit appeared clinically beneficial to the course of renal disease in our patient. Although for ethical reasons we did not perform a second renal biopsy to establish histological regression in the asymptomatic and stable patient, proteinuria was markedly reduced after 6 months of maintaining haematocrit consistently below 50% by venesection, and serum creatinine remained normal. After 18 months, the patient remains asymptomatic with only low‐grade proteinuria. Long‐term follow‐up of this patient will be required to show whether the remission of proteinuria indicates resolution of the renal changes and a good prognosis. We suggest regular screening for renal impairment in patients with PV as renal complications can be prognostically important and may be prevented by consistent lowering of haematocrit.

https://academic.oup.com/ndt/article/15/10/1710/1805292

The proposed causes of the renal impairment, namely "hyperperfusion of glomeruli, hyperviscosity‐induced circulatory disturbance, and especially vascular thrombosis" are probably only an issue if HCT gets extremely high and/or are of concern only in PV, where thrombosis risk is much higher than in secondary polycythemia. Still, there is evidence that high HCT is sufficient to cause hyperviscosity and with it blood pressure increases and disruption of renal hemodynamics:

Increase in blood viscosity, defined as resistance to flow, is one factor in hypertension and atherosclerosis that contributes to the morbidity and mortality associated with tissue ischemia. In this research we evaluated the effect of hematocrit on increasing viscosity, and possible related changes in blood pressure, flow rate, and the equivalent physiologic compensation ratios. Blood samples were taken from 32 healthy individuals and centrifuged for 5 min at 3000 rpm to obtain 2.5 mL of erythrocyte mass from each. Then, at each step 0.5 mL of plasma was consecutively added in a total of 17 steps. The resultant hematocrit and viscosity changes were measured. Viscosity measurement was performed by capillary viscometer. The results were evaluated by the Student t test. It was observed that in the range of 60.16% and 25.32%, a 10.99% increase of hematocrit produced an increase of 1 unit relative viscosity, which means approximately a 20% increase in blood viscosity for a healthy individual. According to Poiseuille's equation, with a constant vessel length, if viscosity is increased by 20%, the decrease in blood flow rate will be 16.67% (100/120 = 83.33%; 100 - 83.33 = 16.67%). For the physiologic compensation of 20% increased viscosity, blood pressure increase will be 20% or vasodilation will be 4.66% in radius. Atherosclerotic and some healthy vessels with little vasodilatory capacities might benefit from treatment modalities to decrease the viscosity by hemodilution.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10411372

Clearly there is an 'ideal' blood viscosity for kidney function, and it's achieved probably somewhere in the upper normal range of HCT. An increase from, say, 48% to 52% in men will probably not have any adverse effects on kidney function. When you go much higher than that though, there could certainly be a risk for kidney damage. So yet another reason for bodybuilders to keep their HCT in check.

nothuman · Oct 5, 2018

MyNameIsJeff said:
Only thing i could find in support is this one case study of someone with polycythemia vera who developed kidney disease. PV obviously is different from the secondary polycythemia seen in AAS users, but even there the incidence of kidney impairment is extremely rare:

https://academic.oup.com/ndt/article/15/10/1710/1805292

The proposed causes of the renal impairment, namely "hyperperfusion of glomeruli, hyperviscosity‐induced circulatory disturbance, and especially vascular thrombosis" are probably only an issue if HCT gets extremely high and/or are of concern only in PV, where thrombosis risk is much higher than in secondary polycythemia. Still, there is evidence that high HCT is sufficient to cause hyperviscosity and with it blood pressure increases and disruption of renal hemodynamics:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10411372

Clearly there is an 'ideal' blood viscosity for kidney function, and it's achieved probably somewhere in the upper normal range of HCT. An increase from, say, 48% to 52% in men will probably not have any adverse effects on kidney function. When you go much higher than that though, there could certainly be a risk for kidney damage. So yet another reason for bodybuilders to keep their HCT in check.

Cool thanks for checking up on this. I just recall a member here Needthepump (some kind of kidney nurse or whatever he said he was) saying he always saw lower eGFR when HCT/HGB was high so I went through old bloodwork of mine and did kind of notice a slight inverse relationship with my own GFR and HCT

Massive G · Oct 9, 2018

Massive G said:
I see your point - I guess we all have impaired function compared to normal people. So always room for improvement.
mine is lower than 80 so I will let you know, hemo is always around 50-55 been under the care of a hematologist for 15 years ever since my hemo was up and docs were ragging on me in my heavy juicing days. Doc says my body is RBC machine on or off AAS. Trust me I have had every test known to man for hemo issues.....isotopes mixed in my blood and re-injected and scanned, bone marrow biopsy testing for genetic factors etc etc etc.

I saw a significant change in my serum albumin levels when I started taking B-1, like I said mild nephrotic syndrome was present in my lower calves and the swelling went down almost immediately after a weeks use of 500 mg a day. so there is merit to supplements and the positive side effects.

I have had flank kidney low back pain for YEARS it really gets bad after a workout even though I am hydrated well, sometimes it gets so bad it wakes me up at night.

Since taking astra again now consistently the pain is not there at all at any time, also there is a bit of softness to the lower legs that was evident, and now they are harder and more veiny now -
I know my kidney function has been suppressed for years but we'll see what blood work says in a few weeks.

Thebigone · Oct 10, 2018

The best forms of astragalus are astragaloside IV and cycloastragenol.

Bser1776 · Oct 11, 2018

Does anyone know if there are any negatives to running year round? Guessing no but wanted to confirm

nothuman · Oct 11, 2018

Bser1776 said:
Does anyone know if there are any negatives to running year round? Guessing no but wanted to confirm

Shouldn't be. I plan to remain on it forever

ChemJr. · Oct 12, 2018

Massive G said:
I know you have posted on the fact that you have impaired kidney function, so would love to see if it helps shift the function up-maybe before and after blood work?

If people have normal kidney function - I can't see what good blood work will do.

Mine is reduced GFR, creatine above 1.2 and mild nephrotic syndrome, has been for years. Vitamin B1 has helped a lot so maybe will give the bacteria strain and astra a try as I have had the NOW brand sitting around for a while-
D's been talking about it for years for the immune system and I usually take it round cold flu season although nothing beats vitamin D3 for a bullet proof immune system.

Even things like Vitamin E can help the kidneys in impaired patients -

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9754323

So the question is how do you rule out what's working when you are taking a kitchen sink full of supplements ED like me?

Not sure if you're aware but bpc-157 can boost kidney function to 200%, esp those with imparied kidney function. This was reported by a lifter with kidney issues but his tests proved it so there's that. Figured I'd toss it out there. I wanna say 200mcg 1-2x day.

Best of luck in staying healthy sir.

tokon · Jul 13, 2019

I am a little confused about doasges, type of astragalus supplement etc.

When Astragalus dosages are (for example) 5g morning + 5g night, is this root or extract?

I.e. if using 10:1 root extract poweder I need 500g?

Thanks.

Kaladryn · Jul 14, 2019

I take a bulk astragalus product that is a 10:1 extract, 3g twice per day. I only use it for periods that I feel my kidneys might be under stress or have been, usually 2-3 months at a time.

I suspect it is mainly beneficial to immune system issues involving the kidneys, which seems like it may be unusually common in bodybuilders for some reason.

tokon · Jul 18, 2019

Kaladryn said:
I take a bulk astragalus product that is a 10:1 extract, 3g twice per day. I only use it for periods that I feel my kidneys might be under stress or have been, usually 2-3 months at a time.

I suspect it is mainly beneficial to immune system issues involving the kidneys, which seems like it may be unusually common in bodybuilders for some reason.

So you take 3g of 10:1 extract twice daily? So the equivalent of 60g of astralagus root?

Thanks for the response.

tren_plz · Jul 18, 2019

Currently using Puritan's Pride. They often run bogo deals. Also using Levithan Tudca.

Kaladryn · Jul 18, 2019

tokon said:
So you take 3g of 10:1 extract twice daily? So the equivalent of 60g of astralagus root?

Thanks for the response.

I suppose if you actually have astragalus root, whatever that looks like, you would need 60g of it. I think most of the forms sold are concentrations.

Mikedee29 · Jul 18, 2019

I'm using usapure 3000mg per capsule bought from Amazon, I take 15g per day, one of the studies I read stated that it's most effective at that dose.

nothuman · Jul 18, 2019

Mikedee29 said:
I'm using usapure 3000mg per capsule bought from Amazon, I take 15g per day, one of the studies I read stated that it's most effective at that dose.

It's been well documented that brand is bunk