BODYBUILDING/AGE/AAS USAGE

[PHIL HERNON]

I HEAR A LOT LATELY ABOUT THIS KID IS YOUNG, HE HAS GREAT POTENTIAL ETC........OVER AND OVER AGAIN THIS LABEL IS ATTACHED TO GUYS UP AND COMING. THIS SIMPLY IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. A MORE IMPORTANT FACTOR IS HOW MANY DRUGS HAS THE KID BEEN ON. IF THESE KIDS HAVE BEEN ON LOTS OF MGs AT AN EARLY AGE, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU EXPECT THEM TO IMPROVE? NOT MUCH....AND THIS WILL LEAD TO MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT IN THE FUTURE IF THEY KEEP HEARING ABOUT THEIR "POTENTIAL". NOW TAKE A NATURAL GUY OR A KID THAT HAS BEEN ON LOW DOSAGES, HE CAN MAKE TREMENDOUS IMPROVEMENTS LATER ON........BIG DIFFERENCE. BEFORE YOU GO ANOINTING ANYONE THE NEXT BIG THING WITH THE POTENTIAL OF THE GODS, YOU BETTER MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THEIR PAST DRUG USAGE. I HAVE SEEN THIS 1000 TIMES AND IT IS SAD.

 

[finny]

Funny that you mention this. I was going to start a similar thread with overlapping topic.

My angle is a bit different. You see these guys very full and massive and competing at a very early age. As you say, people keep talking about potential, genetics, etc. I've been questioning myself 'how early do these guys start'? If they are competing in teen nationals, they must've started early - I'm thinking 14/15.

Yes, I know, there is probably a lot in between...

Now for the question. Are these massive guys a result of starting AAS early and this contributes to being able to amount the most mass due to some physical/hormonal mechanism that has to do with not reaching maturity yet, etc? Or take the same guy and have him train natural and start AAS at at 26 vs. 15 - would they amount to the same musculture?

ie. take a guy that starts at age 15, continously takes more and stays on pretty much all the time, adds slin, peptides. Now, the same guy, trains naturally until he's 24 then starts a reasonable dosage and then builds on it. Fast forward to age 30 - which guy would have a better physique as far as competition is concerned?

 

[Jeremy24]

Whats worse is how you we see people using anymore. Don't get me wrong there is nothhing wrong with being on. But at 17, 18, 19, 20 years old i feel thats just too young.

 

[csuperman]

Well said Phil that is something i always pondered to myself if they got that big so fast what are they going to be capable of later in life.

 

[Nssca]

I HEAR A LOT LATELY ABOUT THIS KID IS YOUNG, HE HAS GREAT POTENTIAL ETC........OVER AND OVER AGAIN THIS LABEL IS ATTACHED TO GUYS UP AND COMING. THIS SIMPLY IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. A MORE IMPORTANT FACTOR IS HOW MANY DRUGS HAS THE KID BEEN ON. IF THESE KIDS HAVE BEEN ON LOTS OF MGs AT AN EARLY AGE, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU EXPECT THEM TO IMPROVE? NOT MUCH....AND THIS WILL LEAD TO MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT IN THE FUTURE IF THEY KEEP HEARING ABOUT THEIR "POTENTIAL". NOW TAKE A NATURAL GUY OR A KID THAT HAS BEEN ON LOW DOSAGES, HE CAN MAKE TREMENDOUS IMPROVEMENTS LATER ON........BIG DIFFERENCE. BEFORE YOU GO ANOINTING ANYONE THE NEXT BIG THING WITH THE POTENTIAL OF THE GODS, YOU BETTER MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THEIR PAST DRUG USAGE. I HAVE SEEN THIS 1000 TIMES AND IT IS SAD.

A good example of what Phil is talking about is Matt Mendenhal...Im sure he was around win Phil competed in the 80's
From what I've read Matt used way to much gear and just burn't himself out early in his competitive career.

Matt Mendenhall 1986 Nationals Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLzu9oo7JNQ

 

[thebrick]

That's exactly the way I feel about it. I think the guy that is young with naturally high hormone levels and stays natural, does everything right, and makes good gains THEN takes it to the next level at the right time, will go further in the end than the guy who jumps on the AAS wagon very early. Some things you simply cannot rush such as muscle maturity, density etc. …IMO

 

[chris250]

I agree with Phil on this one...

I remember when I got into bodybuilding around 91-92, there were couple of kid from the Chicago area that competed around 205-215lbs...at about the same height as me (5-10)...I remember looking at pics at Teen Nationals and some of the kids were competing around 220-230 at about 5-10 to 6 feet tall...I thought how did they do that (I was competing around 190lbs, and I thought that was great at 19 years old) ...But, none of those guys ever did much...Most were burned out by the time they were 22-24 years old...

chris

 

[buldog9]

Some thing to think about

Arnold came over when he was 19 and had great potential. Do you think he was natural at that age....Did his body stop growing and getting better. Some thing to think about.

 

[b-boy]

the true genetic freaks don't need much juice!

 

[GoneForever]

I actually think most the the real young ones like under 21yrs old look bad when on large aas amounts. they are usually very very bloated and lack the muscle maturity and quality, so its just a big puffy mess.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

hahaahah

Arnold came over when he was 19 and had great potential. Do you think he was natural at that age....Did his body stop growing and getting better. Some thing to think about.

Let me think about it............actually, I THINK HE LOOKED BETTER AT 19..........NO HE WAS NOT NATURAL

 

[Mr.G]

A friend that is pro, said to me "most" people have a 7 year window at a high level. There will be freaks, Lee preist , Jay , that can stay at that level longer. He also told me Ronnie was relatively clean when he turned pro.

 

[YoungNJacked]

i think it has to do with how ur body responds to stresses of ur organs. if ur kidneys, heart, liver, etc can withstand the pounding over the years u have edge, but that comes after the fact that u have to have the mass naturally first IMO.

 

[oldfella]

Phil, you make a very good point. I agree that most of these guys that got started out very young and look good at their early comps do not get that much better. Some do not ever make it to pro level before they are done. And yes everyone was quick to say, oh he will get his pro card next year! next year comes and Jr. is not around or even in the hunt. I say train natural for as long as you can, until you simply cannot make any more gains (this means a lot of years) and then use AAS to make further progress and improvements, and those improvements will be very noticable.

 

[MightyJohn]

I have a friend that is a pro that did just that...he told Me when he was growing up he used to almost double what his coach told him to do...by age 34-35 he was burnt out never to compete again

 

[KillerStack]

How does everyone feel about the NPC Teen Nationals in general? I mean if we really feel strongly that teens shouldn't be doing drugs it shouldn't be supported and the kids shouldn't be given props even if they look fantastic.

 

[GoneForever]

I personally dont think gear makes that big of a diff. If higher does made a world of diff than everyone would be using higher doses. If I had to guess, i'd say these teens, just like pro's, are using pretty similar doses, but its their training,diet and genetics that seperate them.

 

[Magnum]

Lee Priest and Jay Cutler come to mind.

 

[Chuck999]

And isn't there that deal about early use of most AA's stopping the growth plate development so a kid that starts before he's reached his full natural development won't get any taller? I seem to remember that Anavar and a few things are not supposed to do this. But I think taking anything under age 20 or so is just stupid. Got to be other problems if starting too young.

Also, everybody I know who started out with moderate cycles at first seemed to do a lot better over time. The moderate cycles early on did as much as a heavy cycle would have done, and left some room to move on as they developed. My first cycle 25 years ago was a very mild cycle of winny, and I got as much out of it as I would now on a 1 gram plus a week of test plus other stuff.

Just my .02.

Chuck999

 

[PHIL HERNON]

yes

And isn't there that deal about early use of most AA's stopping the growth plate development so a kid that starts before he's reached his full natural development won't get any taller? I seem to remember that Anavar and a few things are not supposed to do this. But I think taking anything under age 20 or so is just stupid. Got to be other problems if starting too young.

Also, everybody I know who started out with moderate cycles at first seemed to do a lot better over time. The moderate cycles early on did as much as a heavy cycle would have done, and left some room to move on as they developed. My first cycle 25 years ago was a very mild cycle of winny, and I got as much out of it as I would now on a 1 gram plus a week of test plus other stuff.

Just my .02.

Chuck999

Great points chuck!