BULKING on High Fat & Low Carbs

[NY Muscle]

if you still have enough carbs as glycogen to fuel your workouts then you will grow that way too

the amount of calories/carbs we burn during a workout is vastly overestimated anyway. 150g carbs a day should be enough if youre in a calorie surplus all the time anyway

that being said, i dont consider low carb diets effective for AAS users.
any "chemical enhancement" (aas, t3, gh, slin etc) just shifts your body more towards the direction of carbs being the most efficient fuel. and this amplifies natural hormone response (as said above, leptin, ghrelin, plus every hormone of the ones above that you dont synthetically replace).

keto/low carb is great for naturals and general health though.

just my 2 cents.

Glad you said this. I pretty much only use AAS when I diet and I usually diet on no carbs ketogenic and I can tell you low carbs almost renders the drugs useless...almost. I do NOT recommend no or low carbs and AAS but it does give a beautiful recomp but you really won't gain anything in terms of appreciable size.

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[Dawg1419]

i dont get the "carbs are bad" theory.

people in asian countries that eat a shit ton of white rice and low protein and fat are among the leanest people in the world.

then u have the countries where people overeat fat and protein and they're among the fattest on the world.

besides, a study just came out showing lowfat diets resulted in greater fat loss than low carb diets.

and it was a real medical study, they measured everything they ate and did, measured the metabolites and waste in their breath.

The study was of 19 subjects for 14 days. What a joke. When I started the low carb way of eating I was sick as a dog for 3 weeks. Now 75lbs lighter I will say its better than any low fat diet I ever tried. i will eat low carb the rest of my time here and will start a recomp soon. Watch some youtube videos of Dr Greg Ellis and you will find your answers for bulking up on low carb.

 

[BigMatt]

A low carb,Medium fats, High protein diet is optimal for Natural.

Try to get leaner WHILE RETAINING MUSCLE with no fats in the diet.

Try to build muscle WHILE BEING NATURAL with no fats in the diet.

Protein and fats are Essential nutriments. Carbs are not.

Protein and fats is What build muscle.

Im leaner, I hold muscle while being natural because of the Anabolism of Fat and Protein.

I get my fats from Whole eggs, Beef, Coconut oil, Fish oil, Olive oil. Its all balanced too 10% of each. Saturated, Monosaturated, Polyunsaturated.

And best part of it, My diet doesnt cost a Fortune, Beef and Eggs are cheap.
Coconut oil,Fish oil, olive oil is cheap too.

The best protein source is Whole eggs. Theres nothing that compare too whole eggs, not even those shitty Whey protein powders.

Low carb diet INCREASE GH and Testosterone.

 

[goldberg221]

Great post

 

[nothuman]

A low carb,Medium fats, High protein diet is optimal for Natural.

Try to get leaner WHILE RETAINING MUSCLE with no fats in the diet.

Try to build muscle WHILE BEING NATURAL with no fats in the diet.

Protein and fats are Essential nutriments. Carbs are not.

Protein and fats is What build muscle.

Im leaner, I hold muscle while being natural because of the Anabolism of Fat and Protein.

I get my fats from Whole eggs, Beef, Coconut oil, Fish oil, Olive oil. Its all balanced too 10% of each. Saturated, Monosaturated, Polyunsaturated.

And best part of it, My diet doesnt cost a Fortune, Beef and Eggs are cheap.
Coconut oil,Fish oil, olive oil is cheap too.

The best protein source is Whole eggs. Theres nothing that compare too whole eggs, not even those shitty Whey protein powders.

Low carb diet INCREASE GH and Testosterone.

Your post was going so great until you said that

 

[BigMatt]

Your post was going so great until you said that

You must own a Supplement Shop? I can understand that.

Whole eggs score the highest of all foods with a BV of 100

Whey protein is truly an excellent protein with a biological value at or near 100. Many advertisements will have you believe that their whey is between 104 -157 on the BV scale. In "Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism", BV is defined as "a measure of nitrogen retained for growth and/or maintenance that is expressed as a percentage of nitrogen absorbed." When a protein supplement is listed as having a BV over 100, the company has intentionally manipulated the number for marketing purposes.

I still stand, Whole eggs Are better than Whey.

 

[ljp]

You must own a Supplement Shop? I can understand that.

Whole eggs score the highest of all foods with a BV of 100

Whey protein is truly an excellent protein with a biological value at or near 100. Many advertisements will have you believe that their whey is between 104 -157 on the BV scale. In "Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism", BV is defined as "a measure of nitrogen retained for growth and/or maintenance that is expressed as a percentage of nitrogen absorbed." When a protein supplement is listed as having a BV over 100, the company has intentionally manipulated the number for marketing purposes.

I still stand, Whole eggs Are better than Whey.

It's common sense not to trust ads. However relative BV can be over 100: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_value.

 

[Jizzmo]

A low carb,Medium fats, High protein diet is optimal for Natural.

Try to get leaner WHILE RETAINING MUSCLE with no fats in the diet.

Try to build muscle WHILE BEING NATURAL with no fats in the diet.

Protein and fats are Essential nutriments. Carbs are not.

Protein and fats is What build muscle.

Im leaner, I hold muscle while being natural because of the Anabolism of Fat and Protein.

I get my fats from Whole eggs, Beef, Coconut oil, Fish oil, Olive oil. Its all balanced too 10% of each. Saturated, Monosaturated, Polyunsaturated.

And best part of it, My diet doesnt cost a Fortune, Beef and Eggs are cheap.
Coconut oil,Fish oil, olive oil is cheap too.

The best protein source is Whole eggs. Theres nothing that compare too whole eggs, not even those shitty Whey protein powders.

Low carb diet INCREASE GH and Testosterone.

Your post was going so great until you said that

fixed that for you lol

the "anabolic" hormonal effects on GH and testosterone ... LOL

oh nice you might have 50% more testosterone in your blood as a natty from eating humongous amounts of fat.
thats a measly 20 milligrams a week AT BEST
do you really think that makes a difference?


i agree that naturals need SOME fat for hormonal benefits. not "high" fat without any carbs though lol

insulin is the most anabolic/anti catabolic hormone.
insulin is secreted from both lots of protein and lots of carbs

guess how you gotta eat for maximum nitrogen retention.

eating 3 or 4x the fat you actually need is useless

not hating on keto diets for cutting as a natural. keto eating is just useless (or at least very suboptimal) to "gain muscle"

 

[Ocean cool]

I would like to hear some real life experience. Either good or bad.

 

[aflo]

Glad you said this. I pretty much only use AAS when I diet and I usually diet on no carbs ketogenic and I can tell you low carbs almost renders the drugs useless...almost. I do NOT recommend no or low carbs and AAS but it does give a beautiful recomp but you really won't gain anything in terms of appreciable size.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

When doing a recomp in keto, what drugs do u feel
Wrk the best in terms of recomp?

 

[mytreefiddy]

You must own a Supplement Shop? I can understand that.

Whole eggs score the highest of all foods with a BV of 100

Whey protein is truly an excellent protein with a biological value at or near 100. Many advertisements will have you believe that their whey is between 104 -157 on the BV scale. In "Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism", BV is defined as "a measure of nitrogen retained for growth and/or maintenance that is expressed as a percentage of nitrogen absorbed." When a protein supplement is listed as having a BV over 100, the company has intentionally manipulated the number for marketing purposes.

I still stand, Whole eggs Are better than Whey.

I agree that eggs are better than whey...but I wouldn't go as far as saying its "the best protein source"...... i'll take a big fat steak over eggs any day..

I think JG0808 said it best...... "People don't get fat from carbs or protein or fat, people get fat from over eating all of them"

 

[JG_0808]

I would like to hear some real life experience. Either good or bad.

I've tried a lot of diets both personally and with various clients (over 70 so quite a large control group) and the most common thing is that everyone thinks they have some specific need due to their body type etc however consistency is the true key BUT here is what I have found comparing diets:

*as a note I do not only work with 'body builders', a lot of my clients are/were professional fighters, weightlifters and crossfit athletes*

True Keto (70% fat) - great for very obese people looking to loose fat and at most retain some muscle

High Protein (2g per pound) - good for pre-contest when athlete looking for max muscle/strength retention and calorie deficit is very low but other than that absolutely not needed

High Carbs (Low Fat) - Not the worst but not optimal in the long run as lack of fats start to have a negative affect on person

Low Carbs (not keto, around 100g carbs per day) - no need for this, weird middle ground that lead to a decline in performance

BEST DIET for 95% of athletes:

FATS
Set for optimal hormone function - around 20% calories or .4g/pound - more is no benefit. Try get majority saturated fats from eggs, grass fed meats, coconut oil with small amount EFA's and monos.

PROTEIN
Set at around 25% or 1g per pound - there will be lots of arguments that more is beneficial but have not seen this in mass or performance granted calories are high enough to add mass.

CARBS
Remaining calories set as carbs - most performance and benefits from this 'fuel' so it will be highest macro and will also keep metabolism at a good output level.

I also encourage and believe in equal meals all day i.e. every meal to have same macro ratio - this makes it easier to be consistent, prepare meals and follow the diet which in the end is the most important thing to be able to gauge progress and recommend changes.

Like I said I am not talking about people who are looking to get sub 6% body fat but 95% of athletes looking to stay lean, get stronger, gain mass, performance etc.

 

[asteelz]

You may enjoy this lecture , [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgU8z-h3IKY[/ame]

 

[Ocean cool]

Thanks for the fountain of information. I had to read it twice to really sink it in. But it makes sense.

I've tried a lot of diets both personally and with various clients (over 70 so quite a large control group) and the most common thing is that everyone thinks they have some specific need due to their body type etc however consistency is the true key BUT here is what I have found comparing diets:

*as a note I do not only work with 'body builders', a lot of my clients are/were professional fighters, weightlifters and crossfit athletes*

True Keto (70% fat) - great for very obese people looking to loose fat and at most retain some muscle

High Protein (2g per pound) - good for pre-contest when athlete looking for max muscle/strength retention and calorie deficit is very low but other than that absolutely not needed

High Carbs (Low Fat) - Not the worst but not optimal in the long run as lack of fats start to have a negative affect on person

Low Carbs (not keto, around 100g carbs per day) - no need for this, weird middle ground that lead to a decline in performance

BEST DIET for 95% of athletes:

FATS
Set for optimal hormone function - around 20% calories or .4g/pound - more is no benefit. Try get majority saturated fats from eggs, grass fed meats, coconut oil with small amount EFA's and monos.

PROTEIN
Set at around 25% or 1g per pound - there will be lots of arguments that more is beneficial but have not seen this in mass or performance granted calories are high enough to add mass.

CARBS
Remaining calories set as carbs - most performance and benefits from this 'fuel' so it will be highest macro and will also keep metabolism at a good output level.

I also encourage and believe in equal meals all day i.e. every meal to have same macro ratio - this makes it easier to be consistent, prepare meals and follow the diet which in the end is the most important thing to be able to gauge progress and recommend changes.

Like I said I am not talking about people who are looking to get sub 6% body fat but 95% of athletes looking to stay lean, get stronger, gain mass, performance etc.

 

[NY Muscle]

When doing a recomp in keto, what drugs do u feel
Wrk the best in terms of recomp?

My standard protocol is Eq 600mg+ a week and test E 500mg a week. After 6 weeks I switch to a tri cut blend of test prop/ or ace, tren A and mast prop.

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[nothuman]

I've tried a lot of diets both personally and with various clients (over 70 so quite a large control group) and the most common thing is that everyone thinks they have some specific need due to their body type etc however consistency is the true key BUT here is what I have found comparing diets:

*as a note I do not only work with 'body builders', a lot of my clients are/were professional fighters, weightlifters and crossfit athletes*

True Keto (70% fat) - great for very obese people looking to loose fat and at most retain some muscle

High Protein (2g per pound) - good for pre-contest when athlete looking for max muscle/strength retention and calorie deficit is very low but other than that absolutely not needed

High Carbs (Low Fat) - Not the worst but not optimal in the long run as lack of fats start to have a negative affect on person

Low Carbs (not keto, around 100g carbs per day) - no need for this, weird middle ground that lead to a decline in performance

BEST DIET for 95% of athletes:

FATS
Set for optimal hormone function - around 20% calories or .4g/pound - more is no benefit. Try get majority saturated fats from eggs, grass fed meats, coconut oil with small amount EFA's and monos.

PROTEIN
Set at around 25% or 1g per pound - there will be lots of arguments that more is beneficial but have not seen this in mass or performance granted calories are high enough to add mass.

CARBS
Remaining calories set as carbs - most performance and benefits from this 'fuel' so it will be highest macro and will also keep metabolism at a good output level.

I also encourage and believe in equal meals all day i.e. every meal to have same macro ratio - this makes it easier to be consistent, prepare meals and follow the diet which in the end is the most important thing to be able to gauge progress and recommend changes.

Like I said I am not talking about people who are looking to get sub 6% body fat but 95% of athletes looking to stay lean, get stronger, gain mass, performance etc.

Very good post and I have to agree with it. What you do feel is an optimal carb intake for fat loss?

 

[JG_0808]

Very good post and I have to agree with it. What you do feel is an optimal carb intake for fat loss?

It's not as simple as just choosing a number, it's based on total calories and how much of the other macros you are eating and what stage of fat loss but generally speaking:

Choose a calorie amount that is under your maintenance (start at 200 under) then go:

1g per pound protein
.4g per pound fat
Remaining calories from carbs

Monitor for 14 days then adjust accordingly.

Now as you get lower in body fat I would actually decrease the fats and keep carbs as high as they can go according to results.

 

[warlock]

It's not as simple as just choosing a number, it's based on total calories and how much of the other macros you are eating and what stage of fat loss but generally speaking:

Choose a calorie amount that is under your maintenance (start at 200 under) then go:

1g per pound protein
.4g per pound fat
Remaining calories from carbs

Monitor for 14 days then adjust accordingly.

Now as you get lower in body fat I would actually decrease the fats and keep carbs as high as they can go according to results.

Good info.

So, generally speaking, you would use those macros (1g per pound protein, .4g per pound fat, remaining calories from carbs) for both off-season and precontest/fat loss phase? The only difference is that for a fat loss phase, you would lower cal by 200 under your maintenance?

Then, if you are trying to lose body fat, you would first begin to lower fats and adjust from there?

What if you are in a gaining mass phase, what macros would you up first? Carbs or fats?

Thank you

 

[JG_0808]

Good info.

So, generally speaking, you would use those macros (1g per pound protein, .4g per pound fat, remaining calories from carbs) for both off-season and precontest/fat loss phase? The only difference is that for a fat loss phase, you would lower cal by 200 under your maintenance?
This is correct however at the later stages of the fat loss phase when calories are very low I often lower the fat and add to carbs (talking about final weeks of prep here or someone who needs to remain a weight for a weight class etc.)

Then, if you are trying to lose body fat, you would first begin to lower fats and adjust from there?
Yes, as mentioned above I keep carbs as high as possible as well as calories. Generally speaking people who I work with often come to me being on low carbs and calories that are too low. If you are losing weight there is no need to drop calories rapidly and to be in a huge deficit until the final weeks, depending on progress obviously.

What if you are in a gaining mass phase, what macros would you up first? Carbs or fats?
I would up carbs as they will have the greatest benefit to performance, which in turn will benefit your growth HOWEVER in reality you can up any macro, as long as you are in a surplus. Carbs would just be my first choice as when your protein and fat bases are covered any extra is just calories.

As a note though I often have very hard gainers who just cannot eat enough and these guys I up the fats to help with calorie intake so things like peanut butter/nut butter, loose nuts, mac nut/olive oil, eggs yolks and avocado as they are easier to eat than carbs.



Thank you

See above

 

[jcc80]

i dont get the "carbs are bad" theory.
people in asian countries that eat a shit ton of white rice and low protein and fat are among the leanest people in the world.
then u have the countries where people overeat fat and protein and they're among the fattest on the world.
besides, a study just came out showing lowfat diets resulted in greater fat loss than low carb diets.
and it was a real medical study, they measured everything they ate and did, measured the metabolites and waste in their breath.

I had to do it. Hehe