Can anyone explain why exogenous insulin is more anabolic than endogenous insulin?

[bg65]

if i dose an amount of exogenous insulin to match a certain carb intake why does that promote more anabolism than my body's natural response to the same amount of carbs? Wouldn't the insulin amounts be farely similar, given that neither scenario makes me hypoglycemic? Just curious abt the physiology at play.
And let's remove a scenario like GH use where the exo slin overcomes some insulin resistance from the GH

 

[BigNJ]

There are many articles about Insulin on the board. Use the search button. For Exogenous Insulin you can use a set amount that suits your needs for example. You can control the dose according to your needs. Natural insulin is released when you eat carbohydrates for example. There are many articles on insulin on this board. Insulin is used in many different ways whether you are bulking or dieting. Do NOT use it before you read as much as you can about it.

 

[luki7788]

first of all, if you are healthy and do not have diabetes, your body continues to produce insulin + additionally you give synthetic insulin from the outside, causing hyperinsulinemia, which in short - more growth

two synthetic insulins have a stronger binding to the igf - n. humalog receptor 4-5 times greater than human insulin

 

[SouthernMuscle]

if i dose an amount of exogenous insulin to match a certain carb intake why does that promote more anabolism than my body's natural response to the same amount of carbs? Wouldn't the insulin amounts be farely similar, given that neither scenario makes me hypoglycemic? Just curious abt the physiology at play.
And let's remove a scenario like GH use where the exo slin overcomes some insulin resistance from the GH

Second to luki’s point, exo insulin is active for hours, endo insulin is active for minutes

 

[bg65]

There are many articles about Insulin on the board. Use the search button. For Exogenous Insulin you can use a set amount that suits your needs for example. You can control the dose according to your needs. Natural insulin is released when you eat carbohydrates for example. There are many articles on insulin on this board. Insulin is used in many different ways whether you are bulking or dieting. Do NOT use it before you read as much as you can about it.

You totally missed my question.

 

[bg65]

Luki, i didn't know that abt the synthetic insulin having higher affinity for the receptor. Would make sense then.
Southernmuscle, that totally makes sense too
Thanks

 

[ShZ]

if i dose an amount of exogenous insulin to match a certain carb intake why does that promote more anabolism than my body's natural response to the same amount of carbs? Wouldn't the insulin amounts be farely similar, given that neither scenario makes me hypoglycemic? Just curious abt the physiology at play.
And let's remove a scenario like GH use where the exo slin overcomes some insulin resistance from the GH

I've been asking this question myself for years. I've read almost everything I could find on the topic and experimented with different forms of insulin quite a bit a couple years ago. I've never experienced any dramatic changes like the ones you get from AAS, but I have to say I was the biggest I've ever been during that time. I mainly used short and intermediate acting insulin like Humalog and Humulin-R the way Mike Arnold recommended around the workout. I also tried Lantus a couple of times but no matter what kind of insulin I took, I went hypo so many times even with doses less than 5 iu's. I did make sure I had AT LEAST 20g of carbs per 1 unit of insulin and I did time it correctly and monitored my BG levels. I even went hypo once from 15 ius of Lantus, which everyone would consider impossible. Going as high as 100 iu's of Lantus and more like Mike recommends seemed like suicide to me.

When my insulin sensitivity is obviously so good, I just don't know if a couple iu's more are doing much and are worth the effort.

I have to say I never pushed the calories during that time. I was mostly in an isocaloric state. I had around 250g of carbs around the workout split into a pre-workout meal, intra workout shake and post-workout meal but the rest of the day, I kept my carbs and calories pretty low. As far as I can remember I took about 10-15 ius of Humulin-R, that was the most I could handle without going hypo.

Maybe I would have had better results when I pushed the carbs higher.

My new theory to your question is, a supraphysiologic amount of insulin through the administration of exogenous insulin may allow your muscles to temporarely store more glycogen than they could with an amount your body produces endogenously. But this requires you to consume MORE carbohydrates than you'd do in an isocaloric state. I just don't know much of a difference it makes when AAS and GH are already used as they increase muscle glycogen synthesis to a large degree by themselves as well.

There may also be some additional benefits with the activation of IGF-1 receptors and IGF-1 production in the liver but when I'm going to use it again, I make sure to push the carbs higher than I used to

 

[TheRoid]

An increased potency of insulin analogues may not only be due to an increased affinity for the IGF1R, but may also result from slower ligand dissociation from the Insuli Receptor. A slow IR dissociation rate is associated with a sustained activation of the IR.
So there seem to be at least two mechanisms by which analogues may have an increased potency; either through a higher affinity for the IGF1R and/or by a slower dissociation after binding to the IR.

 

[ShZ]

An increased potency of insulin analogues may not only be due to an increased affinity for the IGF1R, but may also result from slower ligand dissociation from the Insuli Receptor. A slow IR dissociation rate is associated with a sustained activation of the IR.
So there seem to be at least two mechanisms by which analogues may have an increased potency; either through a higher affinity for the IGF1R and/or by a slower dissociation after binding to the IR.

Interesting, didn't know that

 

[Biggerp73]

Layne Norton talked about insulin a while back. Insulin is anabolic in two scenarios. One, when you are elevating it to physiologic levels when you were previously subphysiologic. Two, when you are elevating it to supraphysiologic levels. So exogenous insulin would be anabolic when using an amount that exceeds what the body would release under normal conditions. Which is to say, insulin's relationship to anabolism is not linear. Various amounts within physiologic ranges do not differ in their impact on anabolism.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

An increased potency of insulin analogues may not only be due to an increased affinity for the IGF1R, but may also result from slower ligand dissociation from the Insuli Receptor. A slow IR dissociation rate is associated with a sustained activation of the IR.
So there seem to be at least two mechanisms by which analogues may have an increased potency; either through a higher affinity for the IGF1R and/or by a slower dissociation after binding to the IR.

So many reasons! Many already mentioned in this thread. Perhaps even consider that when it's exogenous, your cns, brain, pancreas, beta cells, much less or all of that jnterplay (work) really doesn't have to happen as your glucose levels are controlled by you. And insulin is the best GDA there is. That means glycogen, atp plus the rapidly increasing amino acid uptake (recovery). And the synergy with AAS is great.

But hard to do when you get old like me. Aargh.