Can you become immune to gear?

[Conan21]

In the past I used to respond very well to gear. aside from gains in the gym. I could always feel it kick in as far as having a huge sex drive and more engergy outside of the gym.

I found out that I had low testosterone a couple years ago and now I try to alternate between natural testosterone boosters and mild testosterone dosages.

My problem is that I don't seem to be maintaining the strenght or size that I know I should be and I also never have that feeling of being "ON" or having a high sex drive. My sex drive is not very good anymore atleast compared to how it used to be.

I am very stumped on why this is happening, what I should try to do or what I should get tested for?

I have full Panel blood work done on a somewhat regular basis and everything is ok in that reguard. As far as sex drive my Blood Pressure is fine and I'm sure this not an issue with estradiol levels.

I'm really lost about the whole situation and just figured I'd throw this out there to see if anyone had any ideas or recomendations.

thanks guys

 

[STORM SHADOW]

What do you call a mild test dosage?
As far as sex drive... hell that could be one of a hundred things. If the Dr says there is absolutely no physical problem... then it's psychological... oh yes it exists! I've had sex burn out before several times and it could last a long time. To help curb sex burn out or bring back that desire... it helps to shake things up a bit... do new things with your girl.. do it in weird places.. ummm even to extremes of joining voyuer groups where people watch each other have sex... there are even more extremes which I really shouldn't bring up here. Maybe take a vacation to Hedonism in Jamaica or other 'adult only' 'nude' recreation areas etc. I could go on... rrrrrrrrrrreally... I could.

 

[oldfella]

First, how old are you? second the natual test booster do not really boost test, they free up the test you have circulating in your blood stream. I had the same problem as you are describing. Get on the real deal and put up the dose. for HRT probably 300-500mg per week initially then back it off to 250-300 p/wk to cruise. You can keep taking the natty "boosters" if you want but there will probably be no need! Since I've gone back on, man do I feel great, like a new man! To answer your question of being immune, no not really. You can saturate your receptors to the point where any more will give little or no effect, but I suspect your dose is too low!

 

[mike1107]

th fact is I'm sure u respond as well as before but the progress come more slowly when u get bigger ...

u should also have ur natural test level checked when off for a while

just my .02.

 

[Clydesdale]

how long you been on cycle, and have you adjusted dosage?

 

[notthatstrongyet]

I think you can build a tolerance. Slows down your receptors.

 

[mike1107]

u can also clean ur receptors

 

[Conan21]

a little bit more information

my natural test levels are 288. I'm 25 yrs old in May

They go up to almost 1,500 ng/dl while on Novedex Xt by Gaspari Nutrition.

MIKE1107
as far as just having too high of expectations, I don't think that is the case. I used to maintain a higher weight and strength level in the past and always had a crazy sex drive. Even when off cycle

my recent dosages have been 250-300 mgs of enanthate switching back and forthe between the novedex xt and testosterone. Bare in mind that in the past 400 mgs of test used to make me feel like super man.

One thing that I regret was during the time when I had low testostere I still lifted pretty hard where I probably should have done no exercise and feel like I might have worn out my muscles in some way from them not being able to recover. But I have taken breaks since then to give myself some rest but this didn't have much positive effect in the over all picture and still doesn't explain the sex drive issue.

I'm very confused about the whole situation and sometimes I wonder If I have some underlying condition that I might not know about.

 

[edge250]

run hcg @ 500iu once per week the whole time your on, god what a huge difference it makes for me.

 

[oldfella]

run hcg @ 500iu once per week the whole time your on, god what a huge difference it makes for me.

Bump that!

 

[mike1107]

run hcg @ 500iu once per week the whole time your on, god what a huge difference it makes for me.

listen to bigedge dude and to be ready for sex drive to be back

 

[Putin]

listen to bigedge dude and to be ready for sex drive to be back

doesnt work for everyone. My buddy can take 500mg/week of test and be spanking his monkey like he's king kong. Me, it doesnt make a difference on any dose.

 

[BigBoyJ]

One thing that I think we can all agree on is that when you're dealing with the human body, every measure has a counter measure. I believe that when we take ANY drug our bodies find a way to neutralize it and become immune. When it comes to testosterone, I believe our own immune systems begin to attack it when after we've used it for long periods of time. I think our bodies develop a type of allergy to it and attack it. I've thought this for a long time, but I thought maybe I was just a weirdo. And then, recently someone posted an article by Paul Borreson where he said he thought it was a good idea to take a antihistimine daily while juicing to prevent this very thing. Maybe I'm not crazy....or maybe me AND Paul Borreson are crazy. I don't know.

 

[Putin]

One thing that I think we can all agree on is that when you're dealing with the human body, every measure has a counter measure. I believe that when we take ANY drug our bodies find a way to neutralize it and become immune. When it comes to testosterone, I believe our own immune systems begin to attack it when after we've used it for long periods of time. I think our bodies develop a type of allergy to it and attack it. I've thought this for a long time, but I thought maybe I was just a weirdo. And then, recently someone posted an article by Paul Borreson where he said he thought it was a good idea to take a antihistimine daily while juicing to prevent this very thing. Maybe I'm not crazy....or maybe me AND Paul Borreson are crazy. I don't know.

Possible, but I dont think it is so. When you're born, you're born with as many muscle fibers and you will have that number for the rest of your life. Just like fat cells, you're born with so many of them and they can only expand. Only way to get rid of fat cells is with, lypo, suck em out. That's why some people have "perfect abs", "naturally huge arms", or can get huge to be a Pro BB. But this theory is kinda like some theory on why HGH is not effective in older men. It said that they still release as much as young adults but it just becomes ineffective by some kind of protein that binds to it making it ineffective.

 

[ironfreak83]

if you've been hittin the weights really hard and havent really taken any time off, you could be overtrained really badly. when i start feeling like shit its usually from not resting enough. a week off from the gym and i feel like a new person again, this happens while on, and off cycle for me.

 

[KillerStack]

As far as sex drive my Blood Pressure is fine and I'm sure this not an issue with estradiol levels.

They go up to almost 1,500 ng/dl while on Novedex Xt by Gaspari Nutrition.

Are you sure estrogen couldn't be the problem? Novedex has caused libido drops in many people. LOTS of reports about low libido on Novedex on the boards. I'm talking about low estrogen being the problem. It could also be the anti-androgenic effect that ATD has.

Have you used finasteride?

 

[refrigerate]

Bump BigBoyJ opinion.
Also what brand gear Conan21 use? This happen when I use BodyResearch Cypionax crap.

 

[Conan21]

Are you sure estrogen couldn't be the problem? Novedex has caused libido drops in many people. LOTS of reports about low libido on Novedex on the boards. I'm talking about low estrogen being the problem. It could also be the anti-androgenic effect that ATD has.

Have you used finasteride?

well I'm sure it could be a problem on the Novedex. I was referring to when I was on testosterone though. The thing is its just not sex drive, its a combination of that and also not being as strong or as big. Almost as if the gear is fake or I'm Immune to it. I was using Baja Vet and then PharmRXL and I've had friends use it and they liked it so it seems to be a problem with me.

What is this Anti-Androgen effect of ATD that you speak of????

No I haven't used Finasteride.

 

[KillerStack]

What is this Anti-Androgen effect of ATD that you speak of????

Here's an example:

1: Horm Behav. 1989 Mar;23(1):10-26.Click here to read Links
Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.

* Kaplan ME,
* McGinnis MY.

Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029.

The aromatization hypothesis asserts that testosterone (T) must be aromatized to estradiol (E2) to activate copulatory behavior in the male rat. In support of this hypothesis, the aromatization inhibitor, ATD, has been found to suppress male sexual behavior in T-treated rats. In our experiment, we first replicated this finding by peripherally injecting ATD (15 mg/day) or propylene glycol into T-treated (two 10-mm Silastic capsules) or control castrated male rats. In a second experiment, we bilaterally implanted either ATD-filled or blank cannulae into the medial preoptic area (MPOA) of either T-treated or control castrated male rats. With this more local distribution of ATD, a lesser decline in sexual behavior was found, suggesting that other brain areas are involved in the neurohormonal activation of copulatory behavior in the male rat. To determine whether in vivo ATD interacts with androgen or estrogen receptors, we conducted cell nuclear androgen and estrogen receptor binding assays of hypothalamus, preoptic area, amygdala, and septum following treatment with the combinations of systemic T alone. ATD plus T, ATD alone, and blank control. In all four brain areas binding of T to androgen receptors was significantly decreased in the presence of ATD, suggesting that ATD may act both as an androgen receptor blocker and as an aromatization inhibitor. Competitive binding studies indicated that ATD competes in vitro for cytosol androgen receptors, thus substantiating the in vivo antiandrogenic effects of ATD. Cell nuclear estrogen receptor binding was not significantly increased by exposure to T in the physiological range. No agonistic properties of ATD were observed either behaviorally or biochemically. Thus, an alternative explanation for the inhibitory effects of ATD on male sexual behavior is that ATD prevents T from binding to androgen receptors.

Stuff like this along with Gaspari's own study showing Novedex to reduce GH levels by 50% (!) as well as having no effect on muscle mass makes the compound rather unattractive to me. Why take something that reduces libido and reduces GH levels and might block androgen receptors while having no effect on muscle mass.

 

[Conan21]

whoa

THat does not sound good.

Why is it useless for muscle mass though? becaue it blocks androgen receptors so much??

So what options are there? What is a good test booster that is on the market today? I'd like to be able to take some kind of natural product so that I didn't have to stay on drugs all the time