Constant Tension / training for pump

[PitbullTank]

I'm going to open up a can of worms here... Dennis doesn't site any scientific evidence for his reasoning, actually the majority of the studies out there and just basic 101 Strength and conditioning contradicts everything he says in the 3-5 minute segment.

Heavy weight performed correctly shouldn't result in injuries, the concept of programming in general is how you avoid training injuries.


There are guys like Meadows out there that are basing programs on actual research and I think guys like Dennis that have been in the trenches all their lives are invaluable resources, however be careful when they start pushing their own brand, they have a business and of course they want you as the consumer to believe that their "form of training" is superior.

There is a lesson in here:
Listen to the guy that sites studies, not the guy that speaks in absolutes based off of "personal" experience.

So JM doesn't build workouts and training methods off personal experience? Those Bulgarian 1 leg lunging drop set is in scientific studies? his suit case rows, studies??? etc etc...

Doesn't every trainer think their method is superior? Who would train clients with a method they thought was inferior?

Pushing his brand?` A slow positive is now HIS BRAND??? he said specifically- do what works for you and learn your own body bc we are all different... said some people need heavy weight, some light... some more reps/sets, some less... all he said was slowing down the positive will stress the fibers and be friendlier on the joints... I have been using it and agree... have you ever tred it yet??? Im a little lost as to what exactly he is pushing... I mean, he trains the BIGGEST BBER IN THE WORLD this way right now as well as a bunch of other guys that are just CRUSHINGGG the stage... wouldn't you think that if it didn't produce results he would do whats optimal?

 

[Kizzlen]

So JM doesn't build workouts and training methods off personal experience? Those Bulgarian 1 leg lunging drop set is in scientific studies? his suit case rows, studies??? etc etc...

Doesn't every trainer think their method is superior? Who would train clients with a method they thought was inferior?

Pushing his brand?` A slow positive is now HIS BRAND??? he said specifically- do what works for you and learn your own body bc we are all different... said some people need heavy weight, some light... some more reps/sets, some less... all he said was slowing down the positive will stress the fibers and be friendlier on the joints... I have been using it and agree... have you ever tred it yet??? Im a little lost as to what exactly he is pushing... I mean, he trains the BIGGEST BBER IN THE WORLD this way right now as well as a bunch of other guys that are just CRUSHINGGG the stage... wouldn't you think that if it didn't produce results he would do whats optimal?

First of all I pointed out that personal experience is an invaluable resource. I also said that speaking in absolutes based off personal experience is something to be cautious of. I pointed out Meadows because he bases a significant amount of what he does off of studies, and he has accreditation. Both of which Dennis does not do or have.

I'm no expert in DJ's brand, but what I do know is that he charges people to train under him and that he has some sort of slow concentric thing that he does, which could frankly be it's own debate, I've never read any sort of objective study that discussed a slow concentric having any sort of benefit, I've read the antithesis though, that an explosive concentric has an amass of benefits. BUT I'm not an expert and I'm not speaking in absolutes, I'm simply saying that I'd listen to the accredited source that also has the experience.

You keep listening to DJ though, I'll stick with listening to Schoenfeld even though he's tiny and doesn't train Ramy. Validation through association isn't a logical thought process. Validation through education and accreditation is.

Why are you framing this as an argument? To what end does this accomplish anything? What I said was objective and encouraging people to do their own research and you're attacking that, yet giving DJ credit for saying "do what works for you", which is an inferior way of saying "Do your own research and your own trial and error".

 

[PitbullTank]

First of all I pointed out that personal experience is an invaluable resource. I also said that speaking in absolutes based off personal experience is something to be cautious of. I pointed out Meadows because he bases a significant amount of what he does off of studies, and he has accreditation. Both of which Dennis does not do or have. I'm no expert in DJ's brand, but what I do know is that he charges people to train under him and that he has some sort of slow concentric thing that he does, which could frankly be it's own debate, I've never read any sort of objective study that discussed a slow concentric having any sort of benefit, I've read the antithesis though, that an explosive concentric has an amass of benefits. BUT I'm not an expert and I'm not speaking in absolutes, I'm simply saying that I'd listen to the accredited source that also has the experience.

You keep listening to DJ though, I'll stick with listening to Schoenfeld even though he's tiny and doesn't train Ramy. Validation through association isn't a logical thought process. Validation through education and accreditation is.

Why are you framing this as an argument? To what end does this accomplish anything? What I said was objective and encouraging people to do their own research and you're attacking that, yet giving DJ credit for saying "do what works for you", which is an inferior way of saying "Do your own research and your own trial and error".

You say u will open can of worms your first sentence but I cant debate or argue with you?? you told me "be careful" and I responded... lol

I gave DJ credit bc you said he was "pushing a brand"... i didn't agree bc i didn't see/hear him push a specific thing... unless you saw something in video i didn't?? i am not allowed to disagree..?

Im about as opposite to you as can be in our thinking here in regards to trainers...Validation to me is- what have you done yourself? what have you done to other people who you train? I could care less about the case studies or what degrees someone has when it comes to this hobby...that's just imo... i highly respect JM for what hes accomplished physique wise, his gut busting intensity , and how many clients he gets to progress and look better... It personally doesn't matter one single bit to me what degrees he has...

 

[Kizzlen]

I'm not trying to be insulting at all my goal is to get you to consider something, but have you ever learned about correlation vs causation? Like maybe in school when you learned about scientific theory or in macroeconomics?

You say u will open can of worms your first sentence but I cant debate or argue with you?? you told me "be careful" and I responded... lol

I gave DJ credit bc you said he was "pushing a brand"... i didn't agree bc i didn't see/hear him push a specific thing... unless you saw something in video i didn't?? i am not allowed to disagree..?

Im about as opposite to you as can be in our thinking here in regards to trainers...Validation to me is- what have you done yourself? what have you done to other people who you train? I could care less about the case studies or what degrees someone has when it comes to this hobby...that's just imo... i highly respect JM for what hes accomplished physique wise, his gut busting intensity , and how many clients he gets to progress and look better... It personally doesn't matter one single bit to me what degrees he has...

 

[LK3]

even when training higher volume you need to use constant progression, if you are not you will not be growing.

all of these variations are just little tricks to keep that constant progression.

those super slow reps you see ramy and other people trained by DJ doing are absolutely brutal, you don't do every rep like that though. also if you watch JM's videos he often does things like that.

tut, partials, statics, drop sets all just variations of a similar concept, incorporated properly all will work at inducing new growth.

 

[PitbullTank]

I'm not trying to be insulting at all my goal is to get you to consider something, but have you ever learned about correlation vs causation? Like maybe in school when you learned about scientific theory or in macroeconomics?

What were you trying to get me to consider? I don't use that style exclusively..im not trained by DJ... i maybe do a set or 2 here and there like drop sets or slowed negs.. I simply think its a different approach to training that apparentley works for some and is believed in by quite a few top guys now... if you don't want to try it, it makes no difference to me... all i did was put up a video, responded to your "brand" statements and say DJ didn't invent the slow positive...

 

[Rainmanisback]

this interviewer is a complete fuckin dork too... says ummm every 3 seconds, so annoying...

agreed... total DB

 

[Cerberus777]

even when training higher volume you need to use constant progression, if you are not you will not be growing.

all of these variations are just little tricks to keep that constant progression.

those super slow reps you see ramy and other people trained by DJ doing are absolutely brutal, you don't do every rep like that though. also if you watch JM's videos he often does things like that.

tut, partials, statics, drop sets all just variations of a similar concept, incorporated properly all will work at inducing new growth.

Exactly! Heavy explosive movements may be best according to studies. But most guys go to a trainer after this method has stalled. Most TUT studies have been done with slow reps.
Most trainers have a niche idea or two, to ad to the progression mix..and they help people to continue to progress.

 

[Equalizer]

Just read this today. Sounds like a combo of the two gives best results:

Muscle Building Tips: Partials Vs. Full ROM: Which is Better for Strength?| Muscle & Fitness

 

[1fst400]

sorry bro, but they're fucking quarter reps. You can get mad all you want but they are quarter reps.

 

[BizzyB11]

I use constant tension/half reps/whatever the official name is for almost all my workouts intertwined with full reps to failure or vice versa. The pumps are better and my joints feel better. After entering your 30's and training for 15+ yrs you begin to feel all the dumb things you did while training as a teen and in the early 20's. As long as you hit failure with an increased workload and your nutrition is adequate I think it works fine..

 

[Chode Logan]

I'm going to open up a can of worms here... Dennis doesn't site any scientific evidence for his reasoning, actually the majority of the studies out there and just basic 101 Strength and conditioning contradicts everything he says in the 3-5 minute segment.

Heavy weight performed correctly shouldn't result in injuries, the concept of programming in general is how you avoid training injuries.

There are guys like Meadows out there that are basing programs on actual research and I think guys like Dennis that have been in the trenches all their lives are invaluable resources, however be careful when they start pushing their own brand, they have a business and of course they want you as the consumer to believe that their "form of training" is superior.

There is a lesson in here:
Listen to the guy that sites studies, not the guy that speaks in absolutes based off of "personal" experience.

Personal experience is a study....In fact a study is usually just a group of people and their personal experiences

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[pantherhare]

I'm going to open up a can of worms here... Dennis doesn't site any scientific evidence for his reasoning, actually the majority of the studies out there and just basic 101 Strength and conditioning contradicts everything he says in the 3-5 minute segment.

There was this study that found slow reps (concentric and eccentric), maybe not as slow as advocated by James, were just as effective as regular speed reps with more weight.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/jap/100/4/1150.full.pdf

Heavy weight performed correctly shouldn't result in injuries, the concept of programming in general is how you avoid training injuries.

All other things equal, even if you practice good form and proper programming, the chances of an injury are greater with heavier weights. I don't have a study hand to back that up, it's just common sense that having 600 pounds on your back is inherently riskier than having 300 pounds. That's why guys like Dante recommend that lifters over 34 keep the reps higher.

There is a lesson in here:
Listen to the guy that sites studies, not the guy that speaks in absolutes based off of "personal" experience.

I don't think he was speaking in absolutes. In his next response, he actually says that you have to try heavier and lighter weights, high reps and low reps, and find out what works for you. And I'm not sure if he's changed his philosophy, but in the past he recommended the slower, lighter reps as a change-up from heavier lifting, not a 100% all the time thing.

 

[BigDM]

Look at the guys in your gym who are big, strong and jacked and watch what they do. Then do that

 

[T TOTAL]

The points in this thread are why i do hybrid FST come P/RR/S style training and find it ticks the boxes

 

[FartJohnson]

Just read this today. Sounds like a combo of the two gives best results:

Muscle Building Tips: Partials Vs. Full ROM: Which is Better for Strength?| Muscle & Fitness

Yes, why does it need to be either/or?

Personally, I like to do a few heavier sets with exercises that are better suited for this (rows, presses, deadlifts, etc), and then finish my workout with pump-style sets until I feel that the muscle has been adequately trained.

 

[ryanbCXG]

Look at the guys in your gym who are big, strong and jacked and watch what they do. Then do that

If only it were that easy

 

[nategeezy82]

Everything works if you use PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD. There is an optimal way though. Nothing has changed in training science in the last 50 years and it's likely nothing revolutionary will be learned in the future. The only thing that has progressed in this sport is pharmacology. I don't know anything about dennis james but I've seen too many times in the past, personal trainers want to reinvent the wheel, repackage it, and sell it as something new and cutting edge.

 

[mewalrus]

If only it were that easy

If you think thats easy you probably aren't paying attention

 

[brutus69]

if the same workout worked for everyone, then everyone would be doing the same workout.
base it on your body type, muscle fiber makeup, genetic ability.
you aren't going to make a long distance runner a sprinter, or a strongman type a ballerina, by having them train like sprinters or ballerinas.
you train them to their potential.
some peeps need light weights for reps, some heavy and low reps.
ive read fred hatfield's work on this and I pretty much fall into the 6-10 rep range, few sets routine as his test suggests.