Creatine Ethyl Ester?

[jared530]

This new CEE claims there is no bloat compared to regular monohydrate. Is there any scietific articles that can back this up? I plan on takin it with var, and would love no water retention

 

[VTliftVT]

I've never had any issues with bloat from CEE or Mono. Everything I've read shows that mono is just as effective as CEE but more cost effective. If you feel that you're bloating from mono then just take post workout when your cells are more ready to uptake nutrients anway.

 

[myosin]

General consensus..

CEE: not worth it.

Kre-Alk: WORTH IT

 

[wasp]

CEE: not worth it.

Kre-Alk: WORTH IT

what is the exact product here? isnt this just mono mixed with glycerine?


ive read many times cee is worthless, mono is the way to go

 

[jared530]

yea i actually heard about kre-alk not too long ago. Whats the main difference? Its a creatine but is their just some extra added goodness? or whats the deal

 

[Ashop]

This new CEE claims there is no bloat compared to regular monohydrate. Is there any scietific articles that can back this up? I plan on takin it with var, and would love no water retention

The only thing I didnt like about CEE was the taste. Do yourself a favor and cap it up or buy it already in capsules.

 

[ROCKEDUP]

The only thing I didnt like about CEE was the taste. Do yourself a favor and cap it up or buy it already in capsules.

lol agreed. tastes like battery acid. Didn't see much difference between cee and mono though, unfortunately I don't respond well to either

 

[BIG EVIL42]

The only thing I didnt like about CEE was the taste. Do yourself a favor and cap it up or buy it already in capsules.

I gotta agree with Alin on this, it tastes horrible. A company called Higher Power has it in caps at like $18 on many sights for about a months supply at 3 grams per day. I personally love CEE when in a calorie restricted state or on a keto diet. I use 3-4 grams pre workout when dieting and can actually still get a great pump and maintain strength with no bloat. I didn't notice any difference when on a higher cal diet though. It's not a miracle product but it is right up there with Glutamine as an essential supp for me when dieting.

 

[jared530]

Well i was planning on taking it with var so i wanted to throw some creatine in my diet. I just get the kilogram jugs of it from true protein, it tastes horrible so i just mix it+BCAAs with a little cranberry juice and I cant taste a thing

 

[KillerStack]

Relatively recent research shows it appears it can't do anything - see the studies.

Then again Massive G and some other bros have said it's the most potent shit they ever tried that was "natural" so who knows. I mean we all are subject to the placebo effect. I thought I noticed a little something from it too.

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2009 Oct 16;388(2):252-5. Epub 2009 Aug 4.
Non-enzymatic cyclization of creatine ethyl ester to creatinine.

Giese MW, Lecher CS.

Department of Chemistry, Marian University, Indianapolis, IN 46222, USA. [email protected]
Abstract

Creatine ethyl ester was incubated at 37 degrees C in both water and phosphate-buffered saline and the diagnostic methylene resonances in the (1)H NMR spectrum were used to identify the resultant products. It was found that mild aqueous conditions result in the cyclization of creatine ethyl ester to provide inactive creatinine as the exclusive product, and this transformation becomes nearly instantaneous as the pH approaches 7.4. This study demonstrates that mild non-enzymatic conditions are sufficient for the cyclization of creatine ethyl ester into creatinine, and together with previous results obtained under enzymatic conditions suggests that there are no physiological conditions that would result in the production of creatine. It is concluded that creatine ethyl ester is a pronutrient for creatinine rather than creatine under all physiological conditions encountered during transit through the various tissues, thus no ergogenic effect is to be expected from supplementation.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2009 Feb 19;6:6.
The effects of creatine ethyl ester supplementation combined with heavy resistance training on body composition, muscle performance, and serum and muscle creatine levels.

Spillane M, Schoch R, Cooke M, Harvey T, Greenwood M, Kreider R, Willoughby DS.

Department of Health, Human Performance and Recreation, Baylor University, Box 97313, Waco, TX 76798, USA. [email protected].
Abstract

ABSTRACT: Numerous creatine formulations have been developed primarily to maximize creatine absorption. Creatine ethyl ester is alleged to increase creatine bio-availability. This study examined how a seven-week supplementation regimen combined with resistance training affected body composition, muscle mass, muscle strength and power, serum and muscle creatine levels, and serum creatinine levels in 30 non-resistance-trained males. In a double-blind manner, participants were randomly assigned to a maltodextrose placebo (PLA), creatine monohydrate (CRT), or creatine ethyl ester (CEE) group. The supplements were orally ingested at a dose of 0.30 g/kg fat-free body mass (approximately 20 g/day) for five days followed by ingestion at 0.075 g/kg fat free mass (approximately 5 g/day) for 42 days. Results showed significantly higher serum creatine concentrations in PLA (p = 0.007) and CRT (p = 0.005) compared to CEE. Serum creatinine was greater in CEE compared to the PLA (p = 0.001) and CRT (p = 0.001) and increased at days 6, 27, and 48. Total muscle creatine content was significantly higher in CRT (p = 0.026) and CEE (p = 0.041) compared to PLA, with no differences between CRT and CEE. Significant changes over time were observed for body composition, body water, muscle strength and power variables, but no significant differences were observed between groups. In conclusion, when compared to creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester was not as effective at increasing serum and muscle creatine levels or in improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power. Therefore, the improvements in these variables can most likely be attributed to the training protocol itself, rather than the supplementation regimen.

Creatine Mono is proven effective, unlike all the other forms. You don't want bloat (which I think is imaginary in many/most cases)? Just take less. You don't need many grams to saturate muscle creatine stores.

yea i actually heard about kre-alk not too long ago. Whats the main difference? Its a creatine but is their just some extra added goodness? or whats the deal

I think it's a scam. At least the marketing is. Kre-Alkalyn is 99% creatine monohydrate with a buffer added, which doesn't do what the sellers claim anyway (see study). Why do users claim they bloat less with it? Because they're taking less of it.

Kre-alkalyn supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. [email protected]

All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn? (KA) a ?Buffered? creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.

 

[Phidias]

I think it's a scam. At least the marketing is. Kre-Alkalyn is 99% creatine monohydrate with a buffer added, which doesn't do what the sellers claim anyway (see study). Why do users claim they bloat less with it? Because they're taking less of it.

LOL! Killerstack, aka the myth's destroyer...

As for my personal experience with creatine, whatever the form, it SEEMS that I've always responded well to it... but yeah, maybe that's just because i was taking much more than the recommended dosage, especially CEE or Kre-Al...

 

[myosin]

Kre-alk

I like it... Less of it equals less bloat?... I understand the thinking behind that, buy think it still remains to be more solidly proven if that really is the case. Phil is my trainer and that's the form he suggested to me.

 

[Saku39]

I've tried them all, mono, gluconate, magnesium chelate, ethyl ester, alkalyn etc. Pretty sure I got the same results from all of them and mono is the cheapest. Creatine Ethyl Ester actually seemed to upset my stomach for some reason. I took it in capped form.

 

[ROCKEDUP]

I think it's a scam. At least the marketing is. Kre-Alkalyn is 99% creatine monohydrate with a buffer added, which doesn't do what the sellers claim anyway (see study). Why do users claim they bloat less with it? Because they're taking less of it.

never tried it, however, I met the creator a few years ago at the arnold. this "scientist" (visit the webiste) has no credentials, no background in science. im sorry I hate dogging people but the supp industry is so fucked anyway. just be honest and tell people you were playing around with some vitamins in your moms basement, dont put on a fucking lab coat and call yourself a scientist.

 

[Saku39]

never tried it, however, I met the creator a few years ago at the arnold. this "scientist" (visit the webiste) has no credentials, no background in science. im sorry I hate dogging people but the supp industry is so fucked anyway. just be honest and tell people you were playing around with some vitamins in your moms basement, dont put on a fucking lab coat and call yourself a scientist.

Never understood this. Why would you hate dogging someone that is a fraud? I enjoy dogging people that deserve it, I even feel like I'm helping people out by doing it. That said I dunno for sure which creatines are frauds or if any make a difference, but mono seems to work and is dirt cheap so....

 

[packing_it_on]

I use a pre-made mix of 3 creatines, that's really pretty cheap, and gives me practically no bloat, so I've stuck with it. Problem is, I have no idea which of the 3 is most effective lol.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Relatively recent research shows it appears it can't do anything - see the studies.

Then again Massive G and some other bros have said it's the most potent shit they ever tried that was "natural" so who knows. I mean we all are subject to the placebo effect. I thought I noticed a little something from it too.





Creatine Mono is proven effective, unlike all the other forms. You don't want bloat (which I think is imaginary in many/most cases)? Just take less. You don't need many grams to saturate muscle creatine stores.



I think it's a scam. At least the marketing is. Kre-Alkalyn is 99% creatine monohydrate with a buffer added, which doesn't do what the sellers claim anyway (see study). Why do users claim they bloat less with it? Because they're taking less of it.

Good post KS.

Read those studies before and you posted them up for all for ref.

 

[HOTROCKS]

Damn good post KillerStack!
It answered many questions I've wanted to know .
Five Star post for sure.

HR

 

[MR. BMJ]

Yes, I agree with KS

I'd recommend just staying with monohydrate, unless it causes GI distress/problems for those who are sensitive to it, in which case i'd probably try the CEE....or just take less monohydrate per serving.

Once saturation is accomplished, most folks can usually cut back down to very low maintenance intakes, so monohydrate should be fine for that


BMJ

 

[crashtestdummy]

Yes, I agree with KS

I'd recommend just staying with monohydrate, unless it causes GI distress/problems for those who are sensitive to it, in which case i'd probably try the CEE....or just take less monohydrate per serving.

Once saturation is accomplished, most folks can usually cut back down to very low maintenance intakes, so monohydrate should be fine for that


BMJ

If one encounters GI distress/problem, try using micronized CM, use warm water, and reduce service size but add frequency.