Critique cycle/deca vs. Npp

[Chromadragon]

just had a couple questions regarding upcoming cycl:

so first off I'm wondering these ratios are ok?
test 250
deca 200
primo 200
14-16 weeks..
my diet is good.
bf 12 percent

my second question is if there are any significant advantage/disadvantage to npp vs. deca? I'm leaning towards deca because I hear npp doesn't have same positive effect on joints as npp. I know npp is a shorter esther tho which I like, I want to go with whichever is considered to cause less sides and I's best for size.

I don't like having to run very high doses of test. That's why I wanted primo so I could run above 500 mg total androgen while limiting estrogen.

my cycle is :

test 250 week 1-16
primo 200 1-16
deca 200 week 1-14

bulking hoping to get up to 200 +
eating In a surplus. 3500-4200 calories a day.
current stats 192 lbs 6'0" roughly 12 percent BF.

I may push the test and primo up to 350/300 mgs last 6-8 weeks of cycle if all is going well.

I've only ever ran test and anavar in the past with good success. highest I've ever run test was 750 mgs.

 

[pickapeck]

You gotta eat brother to fill in that long frame. I's say up the protein for those building blocks. The other staples are training, rest and recovery, and enough anabolism to build tissue. I don't see any problems with that nice mild cycle. I almost always ran mild cycles. High cycles feel good for a while but then feel toxic. Feeling good rather than toxic is the best way to train and eat effectively.

 

[Blueballs]

just had a couple questions regarding upcoming cycl:

so first off I'm wondering these ratios are ok?
test 250
deca 200
primo 200
14-16 weeks..
my diet is good.
bf 12 percent

my second question is if there are any significant advantage/disadvantage to npp vs. deca? I'm leaning towards deca because I hear npp doesn't have same positive effect on joints as npp. I know npp is a shorter esther tho which I like, I want to go with whichever is considered to cause less sides and I's best for size.

I don't like having to run very high doses of test. That's why I wanted primo so I could run above 500 mg total androgen while limiting estrogen.

my cycle is :

test 250 week 1-16
primo 200 1-16
deca 200 week 1-14

bulking hoping to get up to 200 +
eating In a surplus. 3500-4200 calories a day.
current stats 192 lbs 6'0" roughly 12 percent BF.

I may push the test and primo up to 350/300 mgs last 6-8 weeks of cycle if all is going well.

I've only ever ran test and anavar in the past with good success. highest I've ever run test was 750 mgs.

Ditch the primo and double the deca. I think 250mg of test e it’ll be massively underwhelming so I’d increase that to 500mg.

500 test
400 deca for 16 weeks wil be a nice run if you’re diet is as you say, ‘good’.

 

[Chromadragon]

You gotta eat brother to fill in that long frame. I's say up the protein for those building blocks. The other staples are training, rest and recovery, and enough anabolism to build tissue. I don't see any problems with that nice mild cycle. I almost always ran mild cycles. High cycles feel good for a while but then feel toxic. Feeling good rather than toxic is the best way to train and eat effectively.

Yessir, I've learned eating is literally the most important thing next I the training itself. It makes s bigger impact than the anabolic do. I'm doing the one gram of protein per lb of body weight.

Ty for the input I just wanted to make sure that cycle made sense.

 

[Chromadragon]

Ditch the primo and double the deca. I think 250mg of test e it’ll be massively underwhelming so I’d increase that to 500mg.

500 test
400 deca for 16 weeks wil be a nice run if you’re diet is as you say, ‘good’.

Interesting, I was hoping to limit the test and use other compounds to fill in the gap . I seemed to respond pretty good from just 400 test and a lil anavar which was my first cycle. I gained a lot of mass. My second cycle was 600 test.
I thought as long as TOTAL anabolic added up to over 500 mgs it would work as well as if I used 500+ of test, Just potentially with less sides.

I'm eating mostly rice, veggies and quality meat sources. Lots of chicken rice broccoli and beef. Also lots of eggs. Some breads and Milk.
I have a lil Ice cream now and then but I have taken out all fast food and majority of the sweets r gone from my diet.
I eat 3500-4200 calories a day.

 

[luki7788]

Interesting, I was hoping to limit the test and use other compounds to fill in the gap . I seemed to respond pretty good from just 400 test and a lil anavar which was my first cycle. I gained a lot of mass. My second cycle was 600 test.
I thought as long as TOTAL anabolic added up to over 500 mgs it would work as well as if I used 500+ of test, Just potentially with less sides.

I'm eating mostly rice, veggies and quality meat sources. Lots of chicken rice broccoli and beef. Also lots of eggs. Some breads and Milk.
I have a lil Ice cream now and then but I have taken out all fast food and majority of the sweets r gone from my diet.
I eat 3500-4200 calories a day.

You're thinking wrong - you want to be big, nothing other than testosterone will make it better

 

[okko]

just had a couple questions regarding upcoming cycl:

so first off I'm wondering these ratios are ok?
test 250
deca 200
primo 200
14-16 weeks..
my diet is good.
bf 12 percent

my second question is if there are any significant advantage/disadvantage to npp vs. deca? I'm leaning towards deca because I hear npp doesn't have same positive effect on joints as npp. I know npp is a shorter esther tho which I like, I want to go with whichever is considered to cause less sides and I's best for size.

I don't like having to run very high doses of test. That's why I wanted primo so I could run above 500 mg total androgen while limiting estrogen.

my cycle is :

test 250 week 1-16
primo 200 1-16
deca 200 week 1-14

bulking hoping to get up to 200 +
eating In a surplus. 3500-4200 calories a day.
current stats 192 lbs 6'0" roughly 12 percent BF.

I may push the test and primo up to 350/300 mgs last 6-8 weeks of cycle if all is going well.

I've only ever ran test and anavar in the past with good success. highest I've ever run test was 750 mgs.

So you used up to 750mg test and still skinny andfat by bodybuilding standards...
as suggested above start putting more emphasis on diet and training/ recovery instead of gear
If you are younger 30y old you could reach 220 below 10 bf without any drug
Then when you will start using you will blow up

 

[Chromadragon]

So you used up to 750mg test and still skinny andfat by bodybuilding standards...
as suggested above start putting more emphasis on diet and training/ recovery instead of gear
If you are younger 30y old you could reach 220 below 10 bf without any drug
Then when you will start using you will blow up

I used to weigh 155 lbs. Ive gained over 30 lbs in 2 years from aas use. I'm also 34 years old.
I didn't do hypertrophy workouts until the last two years. I was an endurance athlete and MMA fighter for over 10 years

 

[Chromadragon]

So you used up to 750mg test and still skinny andfat by bodybuilding standards...
as suggested above start putting more emphasis on diet and training/ recovery instead of gear
If you are younger 30y old you could reach 220 below 10 bf without any drug
Then when you will start using you will blow up

Also you have a crazy view on body standards if u think 193 lbs at 12 percent and 6'0" is skinny fat. I may not be top tier body builder who is 250 lbs at 6 percent but I'm not skinny fat get real.
I may not have the best physique in the world but NO one in their right mind would look at me in public without a shirt and say "that dude is skinnyfat".
When I'm in shape I am closer to 9 - 10 percent but ive never been leaner than 9 percent. I have been recovering from a broken ankle and broken hand from car accident. my bf is 12 percent after a 8 weeks of doing very little to no hypertrophy work just light volume work on my left side that wasn't injured.

It's so funny ppl who say "focus on training" when u literally don't know me.
I work as hard as ANYBODY my work ethic is too notch. Don't pretend to know what I do.
I asked if my cycle was sound I didn't ask for ppl to deem me worthy of taking gear or not.
AS IF everyone who started gear did ALL the right things first!! Most of you didn't do that either u learned as u went along so stop with the high horse routine. So many of u do it get over yourselves.

 

[pesty4077]

Also you have a crazy view on body standards if u think 193 lbs at 12 percent and 6'0" is skinny fat. I may not be top tier body builder who is 250 lbs at 6 percent but I'm not skinny fat get real.
I may not have the best physique in the world but NO one in their right mind would look at me in public without a shirt and say "that dude is skinnyfat".
When I'm in shape I am closer to 9 - 10 percent but ive never been leaner than 9 percent. I have been recovering from a broken ankle and broken hand from car accident. my bf is 12 percent after a 8 weeks of doing very little to no hypertrophy work just light volume work on my left side that wasn't injured.

It's so funny ppl who say "focus on training" when u literally don't know me.
I work as hard as ANYBODY my work ethic is too notch. Don't pretend to know what I do.
I asked if my cycle was sound I didn't ask for ppl to deem me worthy of taking gear or not.
AS IF everyone who started gear did ALL the right things first!! Most of you didn't do that either u learned as u went along so stop with the high horse routine. So many of u do it get over yourselves.

I be telling you more to focus on your eating. I think if you want size the deca and test combo is fine. I would take more test too then deca.

If you want to get around 220, you eill need to pound calories and bump that protein up more.

 

[Chromadragon]

I be telling you more to focus on your eating. I think if you want size the deca and test combo is fine. I would take more test too then deca.

If you want to get around 220, you eill need to pound calories and bump that protein up more.

Yes sir thank you for the input , so u think the ratio is best with higher deca than test?
I learned a lot my last cycle and the biggest take away was eating is key. I definitely see that it's way more integral than the anabolics. I realized though I was all focused on getting calories and not paying attention to my protein. My metabolism is crazy fast. So u think maybe I should 1.5 gram or maybe even 2 gram of protein per pound a day?

 

[Blueballs]

You're thinking wrong - you want to be big, nothing other than testosterone will make it better

Pretty much it! Over complicating things by introducing multiple compounds at low doses is not the way for sure.
Test and nandrolone are all I use on a bulk and can sit comfortably at 125kg at 5’9 so no reason why anyone else can’t do the same.

 

[Blueballs]

Interesting, I was hoping to limit the test and use other compounds to fill in the gap . I seemed to respond pretty good from just 400 test and a lil anavar which was my first cycle. I gained a lot of mass. My second cycle was 600 test.
I thought as long as TOTAL anabolic added up to over 500 mgs it would work as well as if I used 500+ of test, Just potentially with less sides.

I'm eating mostly rice, veggies and quality meat sources. Lots of chicken rice broccoli and beef. Also lots of eggs. Some breads and Milk.
I have a lil Ice cream now and then but I have taken out all fast food and majority of the sweets r gone from my diet.
I eat 3500-4200 calories a day.

If you used test before as a base with an overlay of var, then I would look at replicating then test base of circa 400 and adding just ONE other med. If you’ve not run nandrolone or npp before, how will you know what med is having what effect? Just keep it simple mate

 

[Chromadragon]

If you used test before as a base with an overlay of var, then I would look at replicating then test base of circa 400 and adding just ONE other med. If you’ve not run nandrolone or npp before, how will you know what med is having what effect? Just keep it simple mate

Fair enough thank u. I got into primo only because I read you can raise total AAS amount without getting all the estro conversion that comes with high amounts of test.
Tbh though I was not vigilant on blood work my first cycled I only took one blood test at very end of cycle. This time I'm taking 3 tests one right at start another after 4 -5 weeks then one last test at the end.
So hopefully I can dial in the estro management with just A.I. and keep things simple with just test and deca.
I know 400 test doesn't cause me much issue so I'll do exactly that just test and deca. I don't want to start at a high dose of deca though, will it be okay to have deca lower than the test base? As I said I wanted to start with just 200 mg to test the waters. Or does test need to be lower than the deca?
I don't wanna start at 400 deca defenitly don't want to do that

 

[Chromadragon]

You're thinking wrong - you want to be big, nothing other than testosterone will make it better

Yes sir it would seem that way ty u for the input. I've decided to just run test base and a lil deca. I researched primo and I read how some guys use it to increase Anabolics without risking super high estrogen converting and that was my main motivation behind choosing primo. I suppose I will just be really vigilant about blood work and my A.I. I plan on taking multiple blood test this cycle and staying on top of my levels.

 

[aHarness]

just had a couple questions regarding upcoming cycl:

so first off I'm wondering these ratios are ok?
test 250
deca 200
primo 200
14-16 weeks..
my diet is good.
bf 12 percent

my second question is if there are any significant advantage/disadvantage to npp vs. deca? I'm leaning towards deca because I hear npp doesn't have same positive effect on joints as npp. I know npp is a shorter esther tho which I like, I want to go with whichever is considered to cause less sides and I's best for size.

I don't like having to run very high doses of test. That's why I wanted primo so I could run above 500 mg total androgen while limiting estrogen.

my cycle is :

test 250 week 1-16
primo 200 1-16
deca 200 week 1-14

bulking hoping to get up to 200 +
eating In a surplus. 3500-4200 calories a day.
current stats 192 lbs 6'0" roughly 12 percent BF.

I may push the test and primo up to 350/300 mgs last 6-8 weeks of cycle if all is going well.

I've only ever ran test and anavar in the past with good success. highest I've ever run test was 750 mgs.

How’d you handle 750 test?

 

[cage99]

@Chromadragon, be careful running your 19-nor the same or higher than your testosterone dosage. Personally I need my testosterone dose 200mg higher than nandrolone or trenbolone. If not my dick will be useless.

Everyone is different, but this seems to be an issue for many folks and not just me.

Also, if you want the most out of this run then track your macros that way you’re consistent everyday. That’s where you’ll make or break your cycle/blast.

Cage

 

[Yousef12O2]

just had a couple questions regarding upcoming cycl:

so first off I'm wondering these ratios are ok?
test 250
deca 200
primo 200
14-16 weeks..
my diet is good.
bf 12 percent

my second question is if there are any significant advantage/disadvantage to npp vs. deca? I'm leaning towards deca because I hear npp doesn't have same positive effect on joints as npp. I know npp is a shorter esther tho which I like, I want to go with whichever is considered to cause less sides and I's best for size.

I don't like having to run very high doses of test. That's why I wanted primo so I could run above 500 mg total androgen while limiting estrogen.

my cycle is :

test 250 week 1-16
primo 200 1-16
deca 200 week 1-14

bulking hoping to get up to 200 +
eating In a surplus. 3500-4200 calories a day.
current stats 192 lbs 6'0" roughly 12 percent BF.

I may push the test and primo up to 350/300 mgs last 6-8 weeks of cycle if all is going well.

I've only ever ran test and anavar in the past with good success. highest I've ever run test was 750 mgs.

You would see much better results just taking 750mgs to a gram of test and maybe some ai if needed. At 192lbs 6ft you really don't need much drugs to grow. Keep pushing brother and you'll achieve your goals in no time. Just make it simple and don't overcomplicate things.

 

[tommyguns2]

I think your proposed cycle is fine, especially for us low dose guys that can respond pretty well to low doses. Some guys on here have to run high doses, and eat like a horse to gain any weight. Just different genetics.

So you'd like to gain about 8-10 pounds of lean mass over 16 weeks. If you've got an average metabolism, the number of calories you're planning to take in are sufficient to reach your goal. I think many on this board think you've got a higher chance of success swapping out the primo for an equal amount of test, so that you're running 450mg of test and 200mg of deca. You get more bang for your buck with the test no doubt. I'd save the primo for a cutting cycle.

Regarding deca vs. NPP. I'll be honest, I've never run deca, but have run NPP numerous times. My joints aren't bad so I really can't tell you whether you'll get relief with the NPP. But 200mg of NPP per week will be a nice addition. I don't get any sides from the NPP.

 

[Nike22]

Ditch the primo and double the deca. I think 250mg of test e it’ll be massively underwhelming so I’d increase that to 500mg.

500 test
400 deca for 16 weeks wil be a nice run if you’re diet is as you say, ‘good’.

I want to echo this response, 500T 400D for a longer cycle is prob best for size.
Save the primo for your summer cut when you want to look drier and cut.
As to Deca vs NPP, I have run both, together and separate. Not as much water weight with NPP but my own personal experience was greater size overall with Deca, but that is just my body.
For my bulker this winter, I have some NPP on hand so I will just use some the first 4 wks along side the Deca to kick start the nandrolone effect in my body.