Cutler: "In my 20 years of training, I've never trained to failure on any set. Ever."

[romo]

I had read several times about Dexter Jackson just stopping workouts if he sense some sort of injury. Kind of like error on the side of caution. I try to do this. If I feel a pain that doesn't seem right I just do lighter weight or call it quits. A good workout is one that lets you workout tomorrow too.

Same here, i will walk right out of the gym, wait and see how i feel the next morning.

 

[Kaladryn]

I think maybe you guys are taking it a little too literal, I think he’s just trying to say he never utilized a program based around going to failure

I agree, I think Jay is talking more about stopping on the last rep and not doing the next rep that fails, he still trained right up to failure pretty much. Plus what DC said above is very accurate, amnesia on weights and doses used to get where they are is very common.

But Jay is trying to make a good point, even though he was moving a lot of weight, he was never going as heavy as he could, he was focused on control and quality contractions, something that is VERY rare in people that lift heavy, almost all the heavy lifters I see are always going "all out" on weight even if they are focused on the target muscle, etc.

I think "ego" lifting is the biggest mistake in bodybuilding. It makes absolutely no difference how much weight you lift, it matters how much mechanical tension you put on the muscle.

 

[maldorf]

Same here, i will walk right out of the gym, wait and see how i feel the next morning.

Same here, at least once I got older and wiser. When I was young I would try to just push through it because I didn't want to miss a training session and then end up hurting myself worse and miss many more sessions. Best to play it safe.

 

[maldorf]

I think "ego" lifting is the biggest mistake in bodybuilding. It makes absolutely no difference how much weight you lift, it matters how much mechanical tension you put on the muscle.

Right. When you go as heavy as you can then you start to use a lot more of the accessory muscles in the lift rather than those muscles you are trying to target.

 

[mytreefiddy]

I agree, I think Jay is talking more about stopping on the last rep and not doing the next rep that fails, he still trained right up to failure pretty much.

This is what I was kinda referring to.... perhaps a BIT literal....LOL

 

[opietaylor]

this thread has become a failure

 

[ubermensch]

I've seen plenty videos where he gets a couple assisted reps from a spotter at end of his set. Maybe its not technically failling but its going past failure so I'd think that's same thing. I checked YouTube before I commented so to make sure I wasn't making ass of myself and literally first video I watched he did dumbbell presses and told the guy spotting two more at end of set.

 

[KillerStack]

People have some weird definitions of "failure" or "heavy". Heavy usually means cheating reps - a weird definition. And some of these guys who say they never train to failure or even heavy start their sets at the beyond failure point as they can't even do one rep fully (say Cutler on chins) or without lots of momentum (rows like t-bars for lots of guys - there is no failure point because the exercise starts sloppy as hell). On some exercises everyone goes to failure such as tricep pushdowns and bicep curls. One exercise where almost no one ever fails is the angled leg press - failure on leg presses is a rare sight.

 

[Landmonster]

Lifting heavy weights makes you big? Who'd of thought?


"If you want to be big, you lift big weights. If you want to be small, you lift small weights" - Branch Warren

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I just think its freaking hilarious how modern day bodybuilders are always looking to take the easy way and to make things easier. Oh hey im going to pick these two pros who have insane genetics and can grow muscle playing chess as my proof you dont have to lift hard anymore. Do you have the genetics of Jay Cutler who went from beginner to massive 280lb offseason pro bodybuilder in 6 years? Do you have the genetics of Dexter Jackson who starts out as a lightweight and now is a heavyweight? Do you look like those guys? They gain muscle mass really easily....do you?
So you take two outlier bodybuilders with insane genetics and dont even look at the greatest scientific study ever done. Want to know the greatest scientific study ever done? 99.9 % of people in your gyms across America dont make gains and dont look like anything (you wouldnt know they were "bodybuilders" if they didnt make it a point to tell you).....they go thru the motions and lift comfortable weights and never put out anything close to failure. So besides the guys with insane genetics, or the guys who drug their way past not training hard......just going to your gym every day and seeing the masses of regular people who dont lift hard and havent made a gain of muscle mass in 5 years......doesnt prove to you ....that it doesnt work?
Again modern day bodybuilders....WTF....how the hell did we get to this point where we try to make everything easier when the hardest training bodybuilders in every gym banging away at heavy slag iron have been the ones changing for decades. Its gotten pathetic. The drugs in the sport which allow the most idiotic non intense people to make gains.....has skewered everyones thinking.
Alot of people need to go back to natural training to remember how the heck you actually trained yourself when you are clean. Alot of answers become real clear when there isnt a bottle of testosterone helping things along the way......try that "ahhhh no big deal I dont have to lift that hard today" as a natural guy trying to improve the size of your quads.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I just think its freaking hilarious how modern day bodybuilders are always looking to take the easy way and to make things easier. Oh hey im going to pick these two pros who have insane genetics and can grow muscle playing chess as my proof you dont have to lift hard anymore. Do you have the genetics of Jay Cutler who went from beginner to massive 280lb offseason pro bodybuilder in 6 years? Do you have the genetics of Dexter Jackson who starts out as a lightweight and now is a heavyweight? Do you look like those guys? They gain muscle mass really easily....do you?
So you take two outlier bodybuilders with insane genetics and dont even look at the greatest scientific study ever done. Want to know the greatest scientific study ever done? 99.9 % of people in your gyms across America dont make gains and dont look like anything (you wouldnt know they were "bodybuilders" if they didnt make it a point to tell you).....they go thru the motions and lift comfortable weights and never put out anything close to failure. So besides the guys with insane genetics, or the guys who drug their way past not training hard......just going to your gym every day and seeing the masses of regular people who dont lift hard and havent made a gain of muscle mass in 5 years......doesnt prove to you ....that it doesnt work?
Again modern day bodybuilders....WTF....how the hell did we get to this point where we try to make everything easier when the hardest training bodybuilders in every gym banging away at heavy slag iron have been the ones changing for decades. Its gotten pathetic. The drugs in the sport which allow the most idiotic non intense people to make gains.....has skewered everyones thinking.
Alot of people need to go back to natural training to remember how the heck you actually trained yourself when you are clean. Alot of answers become real clear when there isnt a bottle of testosterone helping things along the way......try that "ahhhh no big deal I dont have to lift that hard today" as a natural guy trying to improve the size of your quads.

Very good point.

 

[someday]

......just going to your gym every day and seeing the masses of regular people who dont lift hard and havent made a gain of muscle mass in 5 years......doesnt prove to you ....that it doesnt work?

LOL. I couldn't agree more. Every time my wife asks me why I need to put so much weight on the bar I pretty much tell her the same thing..."so I don't look like the rest of the guys that lift here".

 

[FK86]

Every single picture of everyone's favourite bodybuilder shows them lifting ridiculously heavy weights yet no one wants to strive for these accomplishments. It's become quite clear that a lot of people today want the look without the work. I've always been the opposite. Strength is more important to me and arguably I should train like a powerlifter, but I prefer bodybuilding style workouts and am interested in hypertrophy more than a powerlifter.

I think if you took two twins and they were both 5'8, 170 lb, and did the same diet and training program with the following starting stats for 15 reps each

Twin A: 185 lb incline, 275 lb squat, 365 lb deadlift

Twin B: 275 lb incline, 365 lb squat, 455 lb deadlift

For this hypothetical example the twins are the same, but for whatever reason Twin B has the mitochondria to have greater starting strength. I honestly think after 6 months Twin B would be much bigger. Everything else is equal and they are both training as heavy as they can. You'd think it's all relative, but I've come to believe that it's not. Twin B's 365 lb squats for 15 reps offer greater mechanical tension and, in turn, a greater adaptive response than Twin A's 275 lb squats. Cutler was benching 315 when he was 16 years old and the cops of the Boston Police Department that trained at his gym were wondering what the fuck was going on. He applied his genetic gift to lifting for reps and he became a house overnight. Those of us that started with 95 lb inclines need no longer wonder why this process takes so long for us by comparison.

So if you want to stop sets short and train comfortably, please make sure you have freak levels of strength from your DNA because 4 sets of 10 with 135 lb will not elicit the same adaptive response as 4 sets of 10 with 365.

 

[IronLion2]

I just think its freaking hilarious how modern day bodybuilders are always looking to take the easy way and to make things easier. Oh hey im going to pick these two pros who have insane genetics and can grow muscle playing chess as my proof you dont have to lift hard anymore. Do you have the genetics of Jay Cutler who went from beginner to massive 280lb offseason pro bodybuilder in 6 years? Do you have the genetics of Dexter Jackson who starts out as a lightweight and now is a heavyweight? Do you look like those guys? They gain muscle mass really easily....do you?
So you take two outlier bodybuilders with insane genetics and dont even look at the greatest scientific study ever done. Want to know the greatest scientific study ever done? 99.9 % of people in your gyms across America dont make gains and dont look like anything (you wouldnt know they were "bodybuilders" if they didnt make it a point to tell you).....they go thru the motions and lift comfortable weights and never put out anything close to failure. So besides the guys with insane genetics, or the guys who drug their way past not training hard......just going to your gym every day and seeing the masses of regular people who dont lift hard and havent made a gain of muscle mass in 5 years......doesnt prove to you ....that it doesnt work?
Again modern day bodybuilders....WTF....how the hell did we get to this point where we try to make everything easier when the hardest training bodybuilders in every gym banging away at heavy slag iron have been the ones changing for decades. Its gotten pathetic. The drugs in the sport which allow the most idiotic non intense people to make gains.....has skewered everyones thinking.
Alot of people need to go back to natural training to remember how the heck you actually trained yourself when you are clean. Alot of answers become real clear when there isnt a bottle of testosterone helping things along the way......try that "ahhhh no big deal I dont have to lift that hard today" as a natural guy trying to improve the size of your quads.

that was my point, there's almost zero take away from what elite pro's have done or are currently doing. I agree it's fun to talk about but it's just that, for fun.

 

[Landmonster]

Ronnie Coleman's off the cuff comments remain some of the best truisms in bodybuilding.

"Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, but don't noone want to lift no heavy ass weights."

 

[Kaladryn]

Unfotunately, and I say that because I used to love lifting heavy, I don't think the amount of weight used is as critical as how hard you actually push the muscle. Now maybe this is partly because I went heavy when I was younger but I've lost all that size and gained it back several times, each time using less weight and better technique. I'm actually probably pushing further into the painzone now than I ever have, but the weights are like 60% as heavy, the form is perfect, and the reps are 8-15 (usually 12-15 on heavy compound movements). If I could do it all over, I think I would have tried to go lighter and push harder, and I think the longevity that would buy me would be superior for overall results in the long run.

Ultimately, I think the current generation is obsessed with "looking cool" while in the gym, the highest insult to a millennial is to call them a "try-hard." No one wants to go too hard in the gym. I see what looks like this in even "hardcore" bodybuilders sometimes (i.e. no one wants to be caught grunting in the gym or sweating for that matter).

And heavy/light is all relative. Remember Ronnie actually trained light, for him. 10 reps on everything, all that powerlifting stuff was rarely done later in his career, mainly just for the camera. If you watch Ronnie get 10 reps with those 200lb dumbbells, he is solid as a rock and probably stopped a couple reps short of "balls to the wall" failure. I've seen several IFBB pros doing that same thing with the 200 or lighter, they are struggling like crazy and shaking all over the place.

 

[Gravyv]

I interpret him meaning he focused more on muscle control vs just raw strength increases. For instance steady control reps vs. just moving heavier weight. I.E Cutler tempo reps vs. Branch warren reps.

There's a sweet spot before you get stronger due to better technique and adaptation.

 

[Biggerp73]

I just think its freaking hilarious how modern day bodybuilders are always looking to take the easy way and to make things easier. Oh hey im going to pick these two pros who have insane genetics and can grow muscle playing chess as my proof you dont have to lift hard anymore. Do you have the genetics of Jay Cutler who went from beginner to massive 280lb offseason pro bodybuilder in 6 years? Do you have the genetics of Dexter Jackson who starts out as a lightweight and now is a heavyweight? Do you look like those guys? They gain muscle mass really easily....do you?
So you take two outlier bodybuilders with insane genetics and dont even look at the greatest scientific study ever done. Want to know the greatest scientific study ever done? 99.9 % of people in your gyms across America dont make gains and dont look like anything (you wouldnt know they were "bodybuilders" if they didnt make it a point to tell you).....they go thru the motions and lift comfortable weights and never put out anything close to failure. So besides the guys with insane genetics, or the guys who drug their way past not training hard......just going to your gym every day and seeing the masses of regular people who dont lift hard and havent made a gain of muscle mass in 5 years......doesnt prove to you ....that it doesnt work?
Again modern day bodybuilders....WTF....how the hell did we get to this point where we try to make everything easier when the hardest training bodybuilders in every gym banging away at heavy slag iron have been the ones changing for decades. Its gotten pathetic. The drugs in the sport which allow the most idiotic non intense people to make gains.....has skewered everyones thinking.
Alot of people need to go back to natural training to remember how the heck you actually trained yourself when you are clean. Alot of answers become real clear when there isnt a bottle of testosterone helping things along the way......try that "ahhhh no big deal I dont have to lift that hard today" as a natural guy trying to improve the size of your quads.

Who said anything about not training hard and heavy. Some of you guys think the only way to train hard and heavy is to try to hit failure. Nope, sorry, that's simply not true. Now obviously DC works great for some guys. But it's not the only way to train hard and heavy.

 

[Biggerp73]

Ronnie Coleman's off the cuff comments remain some of the best truisms in bodybuilding.

"Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, but don't noone want to lift no heavy ass weights."

Instead of doing one set to failure with heavy ass weight, failing at say 10-12 reps, try doing 4-5 sets with the same heavy ass weight, doing ~8 reps.

Still heavy ass weight. Still intense as shit. But a WHOLE LOT more total tonnage and stress on the muscle. With less chance of injury. And more capability for recovery.

 

[FK86]

Unfotunately, and I say that because I used to love lifting heavy, I don't think the amount of weight used is as critical as how hard you actually push the muscle. Now maybe this is partly because I went heavy when I was younger but I've lost all that size and gained it back several times, each time using less weight and better technique. I'm actually probably pushing further into the painzone now than I ever have, but the weights are like 60% as heavy, the form is perfect, and the reps are 8-15 (usually 12-15 on heavy compound movements).

Intensity and effort is definitely important. Were you performing feats of strength with the weights that were 60% of your top weights that you hadn't previously? Because that can work as well. Someone could get their squat up to 405 for 8 reps and decide they don't want to further risk anything. So they change their rep range to 15-20 and drop their starting weight to 335. If they've never squatted 335 for 15 before and then progress forward in that rep range they will see progress.