Cycle.... critique

[alecaf]

ok so i posted my plans for an upcoming cycle a while ago but i have made some additions. My cycle will be consisting of two phases. phase I - bulking. Phase II - cutting

Phase I - Bulking wk 1-12
Test enanthate 750mg/wk
Deca 400mg/wk
EQ 400mg/wk
wk 1-4 Anadrot at 50mg ed

Phase II - Cutting 12-18
Test prop 100 mg EOD
winstrol 50mg EOD
tren 75mg EOD
clen 100mcg/daily

*500iu HCG every 4th day + 10mg of nolvadex ED

What im wondering is if its a good idea to do a bulk/cutting cycle or maybe i should just do phase two as another cycle after this one, please tell me your opinion. this would be my first cycle over 12 weeks and my 4th cycle. My stats are 6'ft 218lbs 10%bf. Also wondering if anyone has any info on the anavar "gainkeepers formula" big A posted on Growth Principles for begginers ?

 

[oldfella]

ok so i posted my plans for an upcoming cycle a while ago but i have made some additions. My cycle will be consisting of two phases. phase I - bulking. Phase II - cutting

Phase I - Bulking wk 1-12
Test enanthate 750mg/wk
Deca 400mg/wk
EQ 400mg/wk
wk 1-4 Anadrot at 50mg ed

Phase II - Cutting 12-18
Test prop 100 mg EOD
winstrol 50mg EOD
tren 75mg EOD
clen 100mcg/daily

*500iu HCG every 4th day + 10mg of nolvadex ED

What im wondering is if its a good idea to do a bulk/cutting cycle or maybe i should just do phase two as another cycle after this one, please tell me your opinion. this would be my first cycle over 12 weeks and my 4th cycle. My stats are 6'ft 218lbs 10%bf. Also wondering if anyone has any info on the anavar "gainkeepers formula" big A posted on Growth Principles for begginers ?

My opinion is this. The goal of any cycle should be to add as much lean mass as possible and keep BF levels down as much as possible. With that said I am curious as to why so many allude to certain drugs for bulking and certain drugs for cutting, when this whole process is controlled by diet and not aas compounds. It is the composition of your diet that either allows you to cut or "Bulk". You can nachieve either with what ever componuds you choose. Sure some of these compounds are more androgenic than otheres or higher anabolic then others. I want to hear others' opinions on this. I am mainly asking because I believe you can get just as cut with the first cycle as you can with the second cycle, as long as your nutrition is geared for BF loss!! Just wanted to throw this out there for all to ponder!!

 

[alecaf]

thanks OF i understand what your are saying and in that case i think that maybe just adding clen to the original cycle could be fine? Also another option i considered was to substitute only the eq or deca for tren or for winni (or both) while staying on test E? Another option is keeping the eq and deca till wk15 but dropping test E for tes prop at week five adding clen..?

 

[AWN2004]

My opinion is this. The goal of any cycle should be to add as much lean mass as possible and keep BF levels down as much as possible. With that said I am curious as to why so many allude to certain drugs for bulking and certain drugs for cutting, when this whole process is controlled by diet and not aas compounds. It is the composition of your diet that either allows you to cut or "Bulk". You can nachieve either with what ever componuds you choose. Sure some of these compounds are more androgenic than otheres or higher anabolic then others. I want to hear others' opinions on this. I am mainly asking because I believe you can get just as cut with the first cycle as you can with the second cycle, as long as your nutrition is geared for BF loss!! Just wanted to throw this out there for all to ponder!!

Oldfella...very good post. Ditto to that. You have a zillion componds going at once. You dont need that many. Diet is the key. I dont need to repeat what OF said just dont try and re-invent the wheel. What you should really be critiquing is your diet. That is going to make the biggest difference.

 

[Frank N. Steroid]

OF,I couldn't agree more.People often say to me "what's the best steroid for cutting," and they always look suprised when I say to them "there's no such thing as a cutter or bulker,it's your diet that makes the difference." Good to hear someone else saying the same thing.Also,your so right about certain steroids being more anabolic or more androgenic than others.

 

[jesse7159]

I would first ask you where you plan to go with this ie competition ect because I noticed the TOTAL mg of steroid for the week was kinda high. Not extreme but high. I honestly dont see anything wrong with that cycle at all. there are tons of people that use those specific compounds together. why? because they are tried and true and work together. youre wasting your time if you put winny with test e youll have way too much water and defeat the purpose bro even if you take AI. JMHO run with it its a very cut and dry cycle thats been around forever.

 

[Dr.S]

Oldfella...very good post. Ditto to that. You have a zillion componds going at once. You dont need that many. Diet is the key. I dont need to repeat what OF said just dont try and re-invent the wheel. What you should really be critiquing is your diet. That is going to make the biggest difference.

I agree with you guys--- I'd like to also add that ending with a "cut" after you've added a lot of muscle isn't the best idea for most. If you starting cutting calories towards the end of your cycle, during PCT, or right after PCT--- you may not be too happy with the amount of muscle you loose. I think it's a good idea for most to keep calories about the same for at least a month or so after ending cycle.

Like Old Fella said--get your diet in order and you won't have to put on a ton of fat (so you won't need to cut during the last few weeks). I tried the eat a ton of food and just bulk, you can cut later idea-- too many times actually

I've found that I can add the same amount of muscle by simply going 200-500 cals above maintenance---but that way I don't add much fat. Use a mirror and progress in the gym to gauge gains-- if the scale only goes up 3-5 lbs, but you put 1/2 inch on your arms-- that's a good trade off


and now that I look at your cycle again--- that does seem like too much gear. If your diet is on point, 500-750mg Test along with Either 400mg Eq or Deca will more than do the trick for most folks

 

[alecaf]

I agree with you guys--- I'd like to also add that ending with a "cut" after you've added a lot of muscle isn't the best idea for most. If you starting cutting calories towards the end of your cycle, during PCT, or right after PCT--- you may not be too happy with the amount of muscle you loose. I think it's a good idea for most to keep calories about the same for at least a month or so after ending cycle.

Like Old Fella said--get your diet in order and you won't have to put on a ton of fat (so you won't need to cut during the last few weeks). I tried the eat a ton of food and just bulk, you can cut later idea-- too many times actually

I've found that I can add the same amount of muscle by simply going 200-500 cals above maintenance---but that way I don't add much fat. Use a mirror and progress in the gym to gauge gains-- if the scale only goes up 3-5 lbs, but you put 1/2 inch on your arms-- that's a good trade off


and now that I look at your cycle again--- that does seem like too much gear. If your diet is on point, 500-750mg Test along with Either 400mg Eq or Deca will more than do the trick for most folks

Thanks for the advice. i decided ill leave test prop winni and tren for another cycle. Thanks for your help. having said that, one of my questions is still unanswered: can someone please give me some info on anavar or primo gain keepers formula Big A stated on Growth principles for begginers

 

[tflexxin]

Not much need for EQ and Deca at the same time. redundant.

 

[Nat]

It is amazing how great of advice you all give.
I would have to agree with you all!

I guess because I learned almost all I know from the
guys on this forum.

But one thought. I think it is better to run Deca during bulking
for tendons and keeping the muscles saturated with water. But
as Oldfella said with proper know how you could hypothetically
even use Deca as a cutter with proper diet.

I think the above statements are true but one should look to
certain compounds that hold water for bulking and other compounds
that dont hold water. I guess that is probably what Oldfella meant
by different compounds being androgenic or anabolic.

 

[PAsfinest]

due to the amount of test that you are running, your ligaments will certainly be put through a lot, especially since you are running anadrol. The great thing about running the anadrol during your first cycle is that it has a very low binding affinity to androgen receptors, allowing other anabolics to bind to the receptors. I would say drop the deca and keep the equipose to help with appetite. EQ is also very useful for increasing collagen synethesis, which is affected by the test, so i would say to keep that to protect your joints and such.

And like oldfella said, it certainly is all about diet, the compounds only play a small role in the quality of gains.

 

[finny]

I believe this is the gainkeeper's formula.

Edit: Just to add, looks a bit complicated.

 

[alecaf]

Thanks a lot for the advice it really helps. Iam running the EQ and Deca together tflexxin, i posted a thread asking about this and mos said it was a good idea.

Thanks a lot finny for the gainkeepers formula . it is quite complicated as you said. well thanks a lot for all the advice

 

[jesse7159]

....