Daily Dosing plus DIM=Damntastic!

[Kaladryn]

Remember that "free test" might not be as significant as we once thought. Sure test that isn't esterified is significant, but test bound to SHBG isn't really "deactivated" like once thought, there is a receptor on the outside of cells that SHBG with hormone bound to it fits into, this receptor then actively transports the SHBG+hormone to the appropriate receptor inside the cell and starts transcription. SHBG is much more complex than once thought. You can google SHBG membrane receptor if you want to verify this information. There is a really good write up on it somewhere as well, maybe someone has a link, it used to be on Dat's forum.

 

[Thebigone]

Remember that "free test" might not be as significant as we once thought. Sure test that isn't esterified is significant, but test bound to SHBG isn't really "deactivated" like once thought, there is a receptor on the outside of cells that SHBG with hormone bound to it fits into, this receptor then actively transports the SHBG+hormone to the appropriate receptor inside the cell and starts transcription. SHBG is much more complex than once thought. You can google SHBG membrane receptor if you want to verify this information. There is a really good write up on it somewhere as well, maybe someone has a link, it used to be on Dat's forum.

Almost everyone I’ve ever seen labs on whether it’s just TRT or a cycle has low shbg. Seems impossible to increase shbg while on test.

 

[LATS]

I've been daily dosing for quite a while now sub q.. 25 mgs a day.. 175 total.. Of course I'll miss a day occasionally but not much.. As I stated before I was taking dim at 200mgs a day along with AROMASIN at 6 mgs eod ( three times a week).. Felt good for awhile then achey .. Took estradiol test.. E2 at 15.. I'm pretty sure the daily dosing is more responsible than the dim for decent ESTRo numbers but aromasin dropped it way down.. I'm testing again with out aromasin to see my starting point..

 

[Kaladryn]

I've been daily dosing for quite a while now sub q.. 25 mgs a day.. 175 total.. Of course I'll miss a day occasionally but not much.. As I stated before I was taking dim at 200mgs a day along with AROMASIN at 6 mgs eod ( three times a week).. Felt good for awhile then achey .. Took estradiol test.. E2 at 15.. I'm pretty sure the daily dosing is more responsible than the dim for decent ESTRo numbers but aromasin dropped it way down.. I'm testing again with out aromasin to see my starting point..

I feel like it's the daily dosing too but I think the DIM might be having a small effect on estradiol levels. I'm interested in your results, and how high of a T level are you getting with 25mg/day?

 

[Thebigone]

I feel like it's the daily dosing too but I think the DIM might be having a small effect on estradiol levels. I'm interested in your results, and how high of a T level are you getting with 25mg/day?

My test was lower and E2 was higher found ED SubQ injections vs ED shallow IM injections.

 

[Winny230]

Very good to see positive results with DIM - I would love to get off the AI's but don't think I would see a difference as long as the DIM is oral, Oral adex and other AI's have a near zero effect on my estrogen as crazy as that seems. a bump of 3mg a week lowered my E2 from a 77 to 72 lmao

 

[Kaladryn]

Very good to see positive results with DIM - I would love to get off the AI's but don't think I would see a difference as long as the DIM is oral, Oral adex and other AI's have a near zero effect on my estrogen as crazy as that seems. a bump of 3mg a week lowered my E2 from a 77 to 72 lmao

AIs max out in effectiveness at a certain dose, doubling the dose at a certain point gives almost zero returns. The daily dosing of the long ester is the real secret I think, I resisted this idea for years.

 

[NGL34]

AIs max out in effectiveness at a certain dose, doubling the dose at a certain point gives almost zero returns. The daily dosing of the long ester is the real secret I think, I resisted this idea for years.

Thank you for your sincere evaluations and responses. Think I will give this mircodosing a shot. I use 1 sustanon amp per week. Wondering if sustanon will be more or less effective for keep e2 down.

 

[Winny230]

AIs max out in effectiveness at a certain dose, doubling the dose at a certain point gives almost zero returns. The daily dosing of the long ester is the real secret I think, I resisted this idea for years.

Actually my body wasn’t absorbing any of the oral (or very little). Same goes for dbol, thyroid and metformin. They hardly hit me. Switching to an different delivery method resolved the dosage issue

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Thank you for your sincere evaluations and responses. Think I will give this mircodosing a shot. I use 1 sustanon amp per week. Wondering if sustanon will be more or less effective for keep e2 down.

It is my understanding that sust will be much more stable and effective shot ED or EOD because of the short esters...the idea of sust didn't really work out as it was marketed imo.

Even ED shots of test cyp/enan work better than 2x/week or whatever most doctors recommend....add in the short prop ester in sustanon and you are definitely recommended to going ED especially if you are having high estrogen levels with less frequent shots.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Thebigone]

Remember that "free test" might not be as significant as we once thought. Sure test that isn't esterified is significant, but test bound to SHBG isn't really "deactivated" like once thought, there is a receptor on the outside of cells that SHBG with hormone bound to it fits into, this receptor then actively transports the SHBG+hormone to the appropriate receptor inside the cell and starts transcription. SHBG is much more complex than once thought. You can google SHBG membrane receptor if you want to verify this information. There is a really good write up on it somewhere as well, maybe someone has a link, it used to be on Dat's forum.

Have you gotten SHBG tested before and after? Now that I’ve been on such lower doses ED for like 3-4 months I may get SHBG tested to see if it went up at all.

 

[Kaladryn]

Have you gotten SHBG tested before and after? Now that I’ve been on such lower doses ED for like 3-4 months I may get SHBG tested to see if it went up at all.

I've never tested SHBG, my TRT doctor, who has been doing this since the 80s or before, always said, "TRT is about reaching the correct dose that corresponds to the correct mental state, this is more relative to total testosterone levels, not free testosterone levels." I'm paraphrasing but that is essentially what he told me, and he didn't care about SHBG levels. I'm not sure if they matter either, or if they do matter, high or low values may be positive or negative, we don't know. You could assume it's positive because of the membrane receptor, but there may not be enough of that receptor and supposedly SHBG even modifies the effect that takes place after it binds to sex hormone to the receptor.

 

[powerof2]

How would it work when running a large test cycle? Would it be worth adding?


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[Knight9]

I've never tested SHBG, my TRT doctor, who has been doing this since the 80s or before, always said, "TRT is about reaching the correct dose that corresponds to the correct mental state, this is more relative to total testosterone levels, not free testosterone levels." I'm paraphrasing but that is essentially what he told me, and he didn't care about SHBG levels. I'm not sure if they matter either, or if they do matter, high or low values may be positive or negative, we don't know. You could assume it's positive because of the membrane receptor, but there may not be enough of that receptor and supposedly SHBG even modifies the effect that takes place after it binds to sex hormone to the receptor.

My SHBG wss 29.9 in June of 2016 on trt and 21.2 in June of 2017 on slightly higer trt with some proviron.

Free test went from 28.6 to 48.1.


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[Thebigone]

I've never tested SHBG, my TRT doctor, who has been doing this since the 80s or before, always said, "TRT is about reaching the correct dose that corresponds to the correct mental state, this is more relative to total testosterone levels, not free testosterone levels." I'm paraphrasing but that is essentially what he told me, and he didn't care about SHBG levels. I'm not sure if they matter either, or if they do matter, high or low values may be positive or negative, we don't know. You could assume it's positive because of the membrane receptor, but there may not be enough of that receptor and supposedly SHBG even modifies the effect that takes place after it binds to sex hormone to the receptor.

Sorry I’m confused. If SHBG isn’t that important then what did your post #41 mean? Thanks

 

[Anderson CE]

How would it work when running a large test cycle? Would it be worth adding?


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I’m wondering the same. I’m doing EOD injections now of Test E250/NPP At about .7ml Test and 1.5ml NPP. Going to lower doses and go ED when I add winny next week. Wondering how the ED injections of Test E are going to affect total amount. Don’t really want to run super high Test.

 

[Kaladryn]

Sorry I’m confused. If SHBG isn’t that important then what did your post #41 mean? Thanks

It's not that I don't think it's important, it's that we can't really tell for sure if high or low is good or bad, it is just definitely more than just a storage mechanism.

 

[ChemJr.]

It's not that I don't think it's important, it's that we can't really tell for sure if high or low is good or bad, it is just definitely more than just a storage mechanism.

Agreed. The more we learn about Endocrinology the more we learn everything is there for a reason and far more complex than we thought. Like we used to think the pituitary was the master gland 4 hormone Etc when we now realize the thyroid is most likely the king and pituitary the queen or number one and a close second. It's all so close it's hard to tell, especially when every person is difference. I'm sure we could study a hundred different men and get pretty much inconclusive results because half of the crowd would get one result and the other half another. I think it has to do with the particular person and their so-called genetics or diet and lifestyle or whatever you want to refer to.

Just glad to see this thread as I just switched to subcutaneous everyday injection of test cyp and recent addition of HCG to plump the boys up. After reading this thread I pulled my dim out of the Arsenal and will be taking it again and probably the occasional quarter tab of proviron once a week. Best of luck to all you guys & great to see that broscience is paying off in and out of the doctor's office.

 

[Thebigone]

Updated thread in post #27. DIM did absolutely nothing for E2

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...e-forum/139996-everyday-im-trt-results-2.html

 

[Kaladryn]

Updated thread in post #27. DIM did absolutely nothing for E2

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...e-forum/139996-everyday-im-trt-results-2.html

I suppose the low aromatization must be attributed to the daily dosing then. I'm getting bloodwork this week so I'll report in when I get it back next week.