deca/test or just test alone?

[theworm]

relative newbie, 6'4 233 lean, want to add 10-15 pounds with minimal effect on hair and acne...

so, in terms of minimizing sides (mainly hair loss and acne)...

which cycle would be better?

deca 300 and test 400 x 10 weeks with arimidex

or test 500 x 10 weeks (plus some winny or var) with finasteride & arimidex?

 

[oldfella]

Is this your first cycle? can you give us more history?

 

[1badboy]

Dude- why don't you tell the whole story? This is similar to another thread you started here, and you have same basic thread on another board. On each thread, you slowly tell the whole story- you have been on 200mg test / 300mg deca for 4 weeks, correct? And you are having a little "bacne", but no hair loss, correct? These are prescribed by an HRT clinic, and reason you ask about Winny/Var is they will prescribe them too (var at $8/tab???) and everyone says skip the var but you keep wanting to throw in 20mg or so.

I think you are not happy w/ current cycle and when asked about diet it was sub-par, not enough cals or protein for 6'4" 233lbs... maybe I'm mixing you up with someone... you say it's a "first cycle" but have been on HRT for awhile.

Not a slam at all, bro, but people here will bend over backwards to help you if you give them as many pieces to the puzzle up front instead of slowly letting the cat out of the bag.

I really wish you success at acheiving what you want with the least sides.

 

[theworm]

Dude- why don't you tell the whole story? This is similar to another thread you started here, and you have same basic thread on another board. On each thread, you slowly tell the whole story- you have been on 200mg test / 300mg deca for 4 weeks, correct? And you are having a little "bacne", but no hair loss, correct? These are prescribed by an HRT clinic, and reason you ask about Winny/Var is they will prescribe them too (var at $8/tab???) and everyone says skip the var but you keep wanting to throw in 20mg or so.

I think you are not happy w/ current cycle and when asked about diet it was sub-par, not enough cals or protein for 6'4" 233lbs... maybe I'm mixing you up with someone... you say it's a "first cycle" but have been on HRT for awhile.

Not a slam at all, bro, but people here will bend over backwards to help you if you give them as many pieces to the puzzle up front instead of slowly letting the cat out of the bag.

I really wish you success at acheiving what you want with the least sides.

what else is there to tell? i am on test 200 and deca 300 right now (first cycle ever). week 4. some bacne. not frustrated at all. I know my diet sucks, but fixing it TODAY! lol. anyway, just planning on a second cycle and wanted to minimize risks of ance, hair loss....just seeing if deca/test or test alone with finasteride would be better (see above original post)

also, i may want kids in a year or 2, so maybe deca is not the way to go? unsure though. and yeah, i am on HRT, 29, 6'3 and a lean 233. nothing to hide, just trying to do all my research before jumping the gun too fast. I just do not wanna lose my hair, but yet, determined to juice. Just trying to minimize risks...

 

[1badboy]

Again, not trying to be disrespectful or harsh- it's just that you also have access to only certain AAS through your clinic- people on other board were suggesting various cycles but you could not do them as your clinic could not prescribe them- so don't waste their time.

And the finesteride/proscar debate is never over; if you start to shead hair, stop cycle or throw in some finesteride and see if it helps. Don't use it until you need to.

And you say you are just "paranoid" about losing your hair, as "everyone" around you is- I assume this means your associates and not your grandfather on your Mother's side? At 29, if you don't have a serious "widows peak" or baldness in the crown area, you are probably ok. But some compounds may effect you more than other people- it's the nature of AAS.

I'm surprised you aren't here on PM asking for diet advice as that seems to be why you are not gaining 4 weeks into your current (first) cycle of 200 test/300 deca.

I really wish I had this board as a resource when I was 29- use it and GROW!

 

[1badboy]

As far as acne goes, I cycled pretty hard at 23-24 and did not have acne issues. Then in mid-30s tried mild cycle and had cystic acne so bad I could not take my shirt off, bloody nasty cysts. I HAD to do accutane, and it cured me forever (took 2 course of it) Accutane is a wonder drug IMO and is always an option for you if acne gets too bad (mild acne may respond to Vit B-5 mega dose or to antibiotics, mine did not).

So don't stress out about the difference between 400 mg and 500 mg of test; get on a good, 16 week cycle that keeps your blood levels constant, add in an AI as necessary, and this will minimize acne too.

Real HRT (~200 mg test/week) is kind of a "for life" thing, but you can always cycle up to 500mg+ for a while every year...

 

[theworm]

k

k, so what would you do?

i am quessing 500 test, 300 deca? or one of the cycles listed above?

 

[1badboy]

We can't recommend cycles here- but you are on the right track. Skip the orals for now unless you just want to burn $$$ (and winny makes me shed now, didn't before). Have finasteride available, arrimadex, aromasin, or letrozole on-hand, and focus on fixing your diet.

The confusing thing is that you are thinking/talking about 2nd cycle, while you are 4 weeks into first cycle and not happy with it. Why not fix that NOW? Diet seems to be the key. Why waste time/money on a cycle when food is not right?

Again, I wish you the best- listen carefully to what the guys here tell you as 99% know there sh*t (not me- I just know my body).

 

[theworm]

true. i just wanted to know which of the above cycles were most likely to have less sides?

 

[1badboy]

Worm- you have been taking 200 test / 300 deca for 4 weeks now, correct?

And you are not happy w/ results (but have a lacking diet) correct?

Why not bump the test up to 400 NOW, not next cycle? And bump protein/clean cals up by 1500 or so.

Please don't keep overanalyzing this.

(looking over my shoulder for when you or I or both is going to get spanked by Dad or Ouch...)

EDIT: Or oldfella- listen to HIM...

 

[theworm]

Worm- you have been taking 200 test / 300 deca for 4 weeks now, correct?

And you are not happy w/ results (but have a lacking diet) correct?

Why not bump the test up to 400 NOW, not next cycle? And bump protein/clean cals up by 1500 or so.

Please don't keep overanalyzing this.

(looking over my shoulder for when you or I or both is going to get spanked by Dad or Ouch...)

sounds like a good idea!

 

[oldfella]

You're young, drop the deca for now and run with test only as you put in your OP.

 

[theworm]

why drop the deca? just curious.

 

[Paul Bunyan]

Oldfella said to drop the deca. That's because it's hard on your nuts. If you are so worried about your hair then stay away from the following: d-bol, winstrol, halotesin, masteron and primo. Four of the five listed are DHT derivatives. They may make your hair fall out. DON'T COMPLICATE THINGS! Take an aromatase inhibitor with your test too.

Get your diet in order too or none of this will do anything for you. Same goes for training.

Hair is highly over-rated. If enough falls out just shave your head.

There it is in a nutshell.

PB

 

[oldfella]

You don't need it right now. Save this for the next serious cycle. Just use one compound like test and let it run it's course. Then as your diet and training are in order and you are not making steady gains with just one compound look to add another to the next cycle.

 

[tatteredxangelx]

Paul B,

i am not prone to hair loss so I don'tworry, but why do you recommend staying away from primo ... I thought it was very mild on the hair?

 

[Paul Bunyan]

Primo is a DHT derived anabolic. It's the main reason why it doesn't convert to estrogen. Propecia is given to people to reduce their DHT levels so the hair stops falling out and starts growing back. You are one of those lucky people that doesn't have a hair loss problem. I'm not that lucky, LOL. Dbol tore my hair up big time. I remember standing in front of a mirror with a white t-shirt on and it looked like our cat used it to sleep on. As I moved closer to the mirror(while cussing out the cat) I realized it was my hair all over the shirt. It was one of those "holy shit" moments.

No one can predict which compounds are gonna cause hair loss if any at all. I've seen a lot of newbies extremely freak out about various side effects. They end up taking more ancillaries than gear. We've all heard the following: ah shit, my nuts are small , I'm getting gyno, my dick won't get hard, my hair fell out, I got backne, etc.

I hope that cleared some things up. If not, they can laugh at my hair loss. I ramble on a lot and sometimes I jump all over the place too.

PB

 

[oldfella]

Primo is a DHT derived anabolic. It's the main reason why it doesn't convert to estrogen. Propecia is given to people to reduce their DHT levels so the hair stops falling out and starts growing back. You are one of those lucky people that doesn't have a hair loss problem. I'm not that lucky, LOL. Dbol tore my hair up big time. I remember standing in front of a mirror with a white t-shirt on and it looked like our cat used it to sleep on. As I moved closer to the mirror(while cussing out the cat) I realized it was my hair all over the shirt. It was one of those "holy shit" moments.

No one can predict which compounds are gonna cause hair loss if any at all. I've seen a lot of newbies extremely freak out about various side effects. They end up taking more ancillaries than gear. We've all heard the following: ah shit, my nuts are small , I'm getting gyno, my dick won't get hard, my hair fell out, I got backne, etc.

I hope that cleared some things up. If not, they can laugh at my hair loss. I ramble on a lot and sometimes I jump all over the place too.

PB

O)K PB I just had to come here and rub some salt in that gapeing wound of yours, I do not suffer from hair loss with any thing I have done.

But you are so correct, as with anything and any individual, it is as individual as a fingerprint. There are no guarantees to any of this. Some of us are luckier than others........if you can put it that way. And some of Us actually look better bald anyhow!!! LOL

 

[shoestring]

It is silly to plan a second cycle when you don't know how you responded to the first one yet. wait & see what you gain from this cycle to help guage the next.

 

[oldfella]

It is silly to plan a second cycle when you don't know how you responded to the first one yet. wait & see what you gain from this cycle to help guage the next.

Short answer would be YES! But you shpould have a pretty damn good idea how your body has responded to the cycle about midway through. Sides etc will show up by then if at all. Some, as PB has explained get sides from day one, but mid point you should be on top of any changes and results in strength, condition, weight, size etc.