Diet discussion

[stomper1]

Hey guys, I just read phils post "urgent" and I am taking what he said very seriosly. I'm about 235lbs and have been eating between 400-500 grams of protein for a very long time. I use a diet similar to animalbolics(low carb timed, high protein and fat) and I find it works well for me because I am able to gain size and stength while avoiding the high fat gain I experienced while eating more carbs throughout the day. afetr reading phils post and seeing that alot of you guys( lats, phil and others) are not eating rediculouse amounts protein i was hoping you guys could provide some of less experienced bros such as my self with info and ideas on formulating a more kidney friendly diet that is productive to bodybuilding. I understand the the amount of calories one needs to gain size is an individual thing but as everyones motabolism is different but i'm looking for suggestions and guidence concerning macronutrient ratios or breakdown, post workout protein consumption, how often to eat, when to eat what etc...I have been programed to believe that high protein is the key to gains and that it's a must if you want to be big. I see alot of you guys have found through experience that this is not nessessarily true.
I have done a searches on the board for diet discussions and I think it's a topic that could afford to be discussed more on this board. I found the recent info shared by LATS and magoo concerning their training beliefs to be of great value to me and tothers i'm sure. I am certain many of us would truly appreciate hearing from you experienced bros on dieting

thanks to all who take the time to reply to my posts

 

[Mr_Magoo]

i find high protein to be very important, as well as essential fats, and carbs are important but u burn them or wear them for the most part, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate

 

[stomper1]

thanks magoo.. but how much is too much when it comes to protein?
do you think what phil said warrents true concern in regards to high protein?

 

[vitor]

I

I am normally under the High/Mod Protein, Mod Fat / Low carb Here is a sample.

8am 4 Whole eggs, 2 Scoops of whey
Fat 20, Protein 60, Carbs 4, Cals, 500
9am Workout,
10am 1 Packet of Candy(Bottle Caps), 2 Scoops whey
Carbs 50, Protein 45 Cals 400ish
12am 3/4Cup Oats, 2 Scoops Whey
Carbs 45, Protein 45 Cals 450
3pm 1/2lb Chicken, Veggies,
Fat 15, Protein 50 Cals 500
6pm 1/2lb Steak, Onions, Peppers,
Fat 20, Protein 50 Cals 500
9pm Peanut Butter, Shake, or some meat
Fat 20, Protein 45 Cals 400ish

Totals or Assumptions
Fat 65, Protein 280ish, Carbs 95
Calories 3000ish, I need to eat more but that is a sample,

 

[Mr_Magoo]

so ur still doing the carbs only post woprkout then vitor?

 

[vitor]

Yes

I eat a ton of veggies, and i dont really count them as carbs. I have this one meal everyday I love it here it is as follows. I imagine it has a hefty amount of carbs, but mostly from the tomato sauce and veggies.

I take 1/2 of any cut of beef, I prefer ribeye, filet, or porterhouse, Grille it up real nice, medium rare, I use season salt, or Montreal steak spice. As im grilling, I heat a sauce pan , pour a small tad of olive oil, and add 1 whole onion. A large one the size of your fist will do. As that is cooking nicely chop up 1/2 of a red bell pepper, and 1/2 of a green bell pepper. Then place them in the pan with the onions, once everything is cooked nicely, add 1 cup of water, place the pan on high, cover and let all of the water evaporate. Once that is done, put the pan on low add a fairly large amount of Tomato sauce, pizza sauce or any tomate based sauce. Cook that until the sauce is warm and place in a bowl. Add Parimgan cheese to taste and proceed to pour the tomato mixture over the steak. It is amazing, in an Italian restaurant they would call it Filet Peppinata.

But I like the way fats make me feel, I dont know why but when I eat 4 whole eggs I feel very good. I think fats are very important for health. I know saturated fat isnt the best but in moderation it isnt so bad. I like to add olive oil to everything, shakes, steaks.

I think the idea that Carbs keep you in an anabolic environment all day and is absolutely needed for muscle growth is bunk. Carbs are the single reason why we have the obesity epedemic in this country. Lack of exercise, lack of self control, lack of proper nutrition info. How many parents feed their children pepsi and doritohs, and dont require them to exercise. The come home from school drink 2 sodas, 2 handfull of chips, and play XBOX till dinner, then they do their homework and goto sleep. When I was a kid it was come home, eat a sandwhich, do my homework then off to football/basketball/wresteling/or baseball, whatever sport i was playing.

Come to the light and drop the carbs add the fats, use the carbs when needed, pre/post workout, before a marathon, or at a celebration. You dont need carbs for energy all of the time, and fat is by far the most potent energy form known to man.

 

[proof]

Eating right?

Dear all,

I'm 6.3"
90KG !!!!

i've just started working out again, never been a big bloke and by the looks of things i'm prob the shinnyist on the forum. Have probs putting on the right kind of weight. Find i can't eat very much just not interested in food although i am stuffing my face right at this moment. currently trying out the diet below trying to kick start my metabolism. I've just starting putting olive oil in the shakes, does this help me process the protien??

is the diet ok?

Tonight i'm going to find out the stats for my evening meal, not sure at the moment.

Shakes/Chicken/Bagels/cereals

Time Description Protein Carbs Fat Cal
7.30 Nurishment drink 21 ? 6 422
8.30 Milk/cereal 16.5 59 2 225
9.30 MET Rx/Milk 55 48 2 426
10.30 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216
11.30 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216
12.30 MET Rx/milk 55 48 2 426
Apple 21 84
1.30 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216
2.30 MET Rx/Milk 55 48 2 426
3.30/4.00 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216
Apple 21 84
6.00 Training
7.00 MET Rx/Water 37 25 2 266
8.30 Evening meal
10.00 MET Rx/Milk 55 48 2 426
Total 414.5 346 26 3649

Is the diet ok??

I'm in the gym mon/wed/fri

Mon
chest/shoulders/tri's

wed
legs/back/bi's

Fri
chest/shoulders/tri's

am i training right??

I love the forum but feel i've read so much i'm alittle confused about whether or not i'm doing things right.

any advise from any of you guys would be very much appreciated!! Thanks for the time taken to read this, cheers

 

[vitor]

Hmm

Time Description Protein Carbs Fat Cal
7.30 Nurishment drink 21 ? 6 422 "Wheres the Protein"
8.30 Milk/cereal 16.5 59 2 225 "Wheres the protein"
9.30 MET Rx/Milk 55 48 2 426 "Looks GOod"
10.30 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216 "What bagel only has
11.30 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216 "14 grams of carbs"
12.30 MET Rx/milk 55 48 2 426 "Good"
Apple 21 84
1.30 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216 "Check this bagel"
2.30 MET Rx/Milk 55 48 2 426 "Good"
3.30/4.00 half bagel/chicken 30 7 2 216
Apple 21 84
6.00 Training
7.00 MET Rx/Water 37 25 2 266
8.30 Evening meal
10.00 MET Rx/Milk 55 48 2 426
Total 414.5 346 26 3649

Ok anyways My question for you is there is not enough fat in here, I think the carb count is off by say 50-100 grams, and why is there no red meat. A steak a day keeps catobolism away. I love the fact you eat so frequently, Keep it up, if you are a hardgainer like you stated, Bigger meals might be a good idea for example :

Eat the same carb/protein breakfast, then switch to fats and protein till the meal before training. Then carb/protein after workout and the rest of the evening. Also that postworkout Metrx shake looks kinda weak. I want you to add some more protein and more carbs, post workout at a minimum 50grams of protein and atleast 50 grams of sugars.

One other note, switch some of these foods up, have some oatmeal and chicken, or egg whites and oats, or sandwhiches, rice, mix and match but try to space things out.

 

[stomper1]

bro,
how are you able to eat such frequent meals occupationally speaking.
I find it hard to get in 6-7 feedings a day due to work and or school

 

[vitor]

Hmm

Just about everything he eats is very easy to prepare. Bagels toasted or untoasted, Cereal, shakes, metrx shakes, you can cook chicken and bring into work, he is creative.

 

[stomper1]

I too prepare work meals as conveniently as possible. bringing things such as chicken, strip steak, protein shakes with olive oil, yam etc....
however, even the quickest most convenient meals still take time away from the job. whether it's going and getting it from the fridge, or from a family size cooler in your car(that's me)to simply eating it. I just haven't had many boses that would tolerate me grabing something from the cooler every hour on the hour... I think it's great that some boses are cool about it like i'm sure a few are.

in new york we get 2 fifteen mintue breaks( but these are not always given.. phuckin bastards) and a half hour lunch break.. so I use these three breaks as my meal time add breakfast in the and two more meal at night and that takes me to 6 meals a day then I have to go to be if i want to get seven to eight hours.

Why am I bitching about this to you guys?
sorry bros I went off on my lack of proper dieting.
haha

 

[proof]

Vitor

Thanks for the advise

A pasted a table in my last post which went a bit wonking on me. I'll beef up the protein on the meals you pointed out. Do i need to put away at least 50gs each meal? I'll also try and get some red meat in there, this is gonna be the evening meal as it'll take me longer to prep, maybe fish too. I think you're right about the carbs, it was my first go at looking at what i was eating and didn't have all the info..what does olive oil do for me?

any advise on what i should be doing at the gym, what and when? how? i've read so much i'm confussed.

Stomper

I'm a Senior Consultant in a very small business in London. There is only one person above me and that's the boss. I start work at 7.30am every day and work right throught till 6pm no real breaks. the kitchen is next to my desk so i don't have to walk far. My boss is a 20stone fatty and has just started going to the gym but has to take it easy due to high blood pressure. He asks me for advise. I probably push at least 70% of our fee paying work so he thinks alot of me. i don't get any benefits, i work alot of weekends with no overtime payed. He has to tread carefully!! or i'll walk!!! I still get the work done and i'm able to eat when i want.

As Vitor said most of my meals are easy to prep, i buy the chicken from the supermarket already cooked. the only prop i do have is when i'm at meetings on site. I've got an all day meeting tomorrow. I'm gonna take my shaker and my Met Rx with me, i'll also make sandwhiches to take. Any break i get i'm gonna be in the toilet stuffing my face.

I'm eating often so that i can get my motabolisum into gear. Normally i just can't eat what i need to be able to put on the weight, i do intend to increase the quantity and cut the meals down to 6 to 8 meals per day.

Lads thanks for the advise

 

[vitor]

I

I use olive oil for energy and to supplement calories. You can use flax or any other type of oil. A normal shake for me has the following

3 scoops whey
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 Scoop Sugar free citrucel <--- TO supplement my low fiber diet. I poop just fine but fiber is great for slowing digeston, and keeps you healthy.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Confession Time!

I (normally) have been eating very similar to vitor - but haven't the last couple months due to shoulder rehabilitation (prolotherapy).

I add ~50g dextrose to my post workout protein drink. Then I eat my high carb meal following this, 1/2 to 1 hour later. Then it's protein (some type of meat) and green veggies, or whey protein isolate protein drinks for remainder of day - I workout first thing in AM.

I've been eating carbs (not a lot) with evening meal (eating with wife and she won't cook what I want) and some "bad" snacks during the day - but otherwise staying on track. But - just this minor deviation from my routine has put WAY TOO MUCH fat around my waist xcel

 

[proof]

xcelbeyond,

I'm also putting on to much weight round the my waist 37" to be exact!!

Generally i've got good deffinition but that's prob cause i'm 6.2" and only 90KG

I'm am starting to put on muscle in all areas that i train but i'm getting love handles that look shit! i work my abs three times per week and do 15mims of fairly high cardio before my work outs and try and run on the odd day off but my sides look nasty!

if poss can you answer the following?

1. To put on weight/muscle do i have to eat fat?
2. Can i bulk up then change my routine to cut away the fat?
3. if so is this normal?
4. I'm fairly lean but my hips and sides are not tight what can i do to correct this?

I'm very happy with the gains i have made, happy to train hard and eat what ever i need to, but i'm very unhappy about my sides and need some good advise and comforting words of wisdom as to whether a fat back, sloppy sides are normal when eating like a horse and trying to put on the weight? If i know that this is okay i wont feel too depressed next time i'm having a pose in the mirror.

thanks for the help.

 

[xcelbeyond]

I'm going to add back some things that I've dropped - to expend more calories. Cardio on my non-weight days (4-days week) along with ab work. I believe that's the missing element for me at this point.

xcel

 

[vitor]

ok

1. To put on weight/muscle do i have to eat fat?
Fat is essential to so many functions in our bodys it is crazy not to include it into your diet. You wont get fat from fat unless you eat too much, or eat it with carbs. DOnt combine the two, or try not too.

2. Can i bulk up then change my routine to cut away the fat?

Alot of guys get real big and bulky a tad chubby then cut it up later, as it is hard to just put on lean mass.

3. if so is this normal?
This is Normal.
4. I'm fairly lean but my hips and sides are not tight what can i do to correct this?

Fat will come off fairly evenly thoughout the body as bodyfat gets lower. So eat right, do cardio, lift and your hip/sides will be tight in no time.

 

[proof]

Vitor,

thanks for the advise. I'll let you know how i get on.

 

[crackerjack414]

well i gues iam the opposite of most of u guys here. I simply cant eat enough carbs or fats while doing cardio. Now that season has began ive lost 15 pounds in the last month still eating 5k cals, for me i cant be over 200 without doing any cardio whatso ever

 

[Mr_Magoo]

vitor has listed some very smart guidelines to follow