Overstretching in training - discussion🛑

[Biggerp73]

Nothing to add except the recent fad with lengthened muscle training is funny in of that people seem to forget that squeezing at peak contraction (shortest muscle length possible) also has its own benefits

 

[need4tren]

He’s trying to sell a “new” way of training. That’s all he’s doing.

Control the negative, get a good stretch of the muscle but don’t do these outrageous deep stretches while doing the movement. You gonna sacrifice too much load to progress

 

[dantes]

I remember on the bp he was collar to collar grip. No much weight, short range of motion, ‘pumping’ motion. And when he was resting away from the bench, nobody would dare touch it.

With that wide of a grip and a good arch you can get a really deep pec stretch without necessarily touching super low. Marcus ruhl did something very similar on incline smith.

 

[Elvia1023]

The answer with most things is usually somewhere in the middle and this is no different. I am a believer in weighted stretches and I also do bodyweight stretches at the end of every workout. I always tried to remain flexible no matter how much size/weight I put on and I urge everyone to do the same. Most of my training incorporates a full ROM but I am also a big believer in partials in the lengthened position (the literature backs this up too). All that being said this guy seems to be going OTT with the thought process and as someone just suggested it could be so he becomes known for this extreme method so he can capitalize with app sales. In today's social media training world nearly everything has been done and there isn't much more someone could do with training to stand out but this is definitely something that stands out.

Nevertheless, I do still think even this method could work great for certain body parts but not all. His training is actually great from what I have seen but it definitely wouldn't suit everyone because it's too extreme. Obviously you build up over time with this but even doing that wouldn't benefit everyone and it could even be dangerous for some. I do like the concept but feel the extra loading he could get from reducing his ROM slightly would likely benefit most people more.

This is mainly suited for very advanced trainers and if done correctly could be of great benefit. As long as someone knows where the targeted muscle's tension stops and can set up their bodies to maximize that then I think it could be useful. Although just like any training methods is it going to transform someone's physique... no... but if you can harden your body and strengthen your connective tissues over time it's only a good thing.

 

[UCP]

I have never seen this methodology applied to a lot massive bodybuilders myself but can share what I've seen in myself and other athletes:

• There is some believe that growth is driven by total tension to the muscle. It's why some Olympic weight lifters are muscular despite the time under tension in their training being short. They are moving heavy weights with speed creating high quality tension.
• This is why progressive overload works, you are gradually increasing tension to the muscle by applying more load.
• Lengthening the muscle creates additional tension as the muscle is placed in the stretched position. This includes:
  • Increased inflammation
  • More tendon strain
  • More muscle damage
  • Longer recovery times
  • More impact on the fascia
  • More tendon growth
• We see this in gymnasts (Biceps & shoulders) as they are routinely placed in the extreme long range positions
• Platz had some of the best legs of all time and he was always putting the quads in the lengthened position with deep squats and hack squats on the toes. He was also extremely flexible.
• Vince Gironda used specific movements that took advantage of the long range (Guillotine press, and Gironda dip)

This isn't to say that you should only do long range positions, the short range and middle range have a ton of value (and incredible physiques have been built only using short and mid range). There is also the risk that if you do too much too soon you'll get hurt and for many bodybuilders this is true since the muscles have been up regulated and the tendons often lag behind.

Either way I think exercise selection is king and we should strategically use specific tensions for each muscle to our advantage by choosing the right exercises.

 

[dantes]

I have never seen this methodology applied to a lot massive bodybuilders myself but can share what I've seen in myself and other athletes:

• There is some believe that growth is driven by total tension to the muscle. It's why some Olympic weight lifters are muscular despite the time under tension in their training being short. They are moving heavy weights with speed creating high quality tension.
• This is why progressive overload works, you are gradually increasing tension to the muscle by applying more load.
• Lengthening the muscle creates additional tension as the muscle is placed in the stretched position. This includes:
  • Increased inflammation
  • More tendon strain
  • More muscle damage
  • Longer recovery times
  • More impact on the fascia
  • More tendon growth
• We see this in gymnasts (Biceps & shoulders) as they are routinely placed in the extreme long range positions
• Platz had some of the best legs of all time and he was always putting the quads in the lengthened position with deep squats and hack squats on the toes. He was also extremely flexible.
• Vince Gironda used specific movements that took advantage of the long range (Guillotine press, and Gironda dip)

This isn't to say that you should only do long range positions, the short range and middle range have a ton of value (and incredible physiques have been built only using short and mid range). There is also the risk that if you do too much too soon you'll get hurt and for many bodybuilders this is true since the muscles have been up regulated and the tendons often lag behind.

Either way I think exercise selection is king and we should strategically use specific tensions for each muscle to our advantage by choosing the right exercises.


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I am not sure I would reference Olympic weightlifters as being muscular. Half of them excluding quad development don’t even look like they lift. A few of the Chinese guys in lighter classes are decently muscular but the Chinese are also notorious dopers.
I suspect most Olympic lifters are poorly muscled due to a lack of emphasis on the eccentric at least for the upper body portion of the lift and very low rep ranges.

 

[3BILLS]

I am not sure I would reference Olympic weightlifters as being muscular. Half of them excluding quad development don’t even look like they lift. A few of the Chinese guys in lighter classes are decently muscular but the Chinese are also notorious dopers.
I suspect most Olympic lifters are poorly muscled due to a lack of emphasis on the eccentric at least for the upper body portion of the lift and very low rep ranges.

Nothing wrong with what there taking if we're just talking about muscular development from training. There still getting the stimulus

 

[UCP]

I am not sure I would reference Olympic weightlifters as being muscular. Half of them excluding quad development don’t even look like they lift. A few of the Chinese guys in lighter classes are decently muscular but the Chinese are also notorious dopers.
I suspect most Olympic lifters are poorly muscled due to a lack of emphasis on the eccentric at least for the upper body portion of the lift and very low rep ranges.

I agree with your last statement, if we're talking about maximizing muscle development then the eccentric is crucial, rep ranges matter too. All I was trying to illustrate is that people can develop muscle from that type of stimulus because it is still tension.

 

[Cerberus777]

I think a lot of muscle growth can come from the stretched position...but never first exercise and lighter weight high reps. I know Dante had a lot of the widow maker sets with a stretched position.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I have so much to say in this thread. I spent years researching this stuff from the early 90's forward. ( I just do not have the time right now to say all I want to say )

 

[cage99]

I’ve never utilized the stretching techniques preached by DC. That’s fixing to change though. I plan to implement them tomorrow for my Quads/Calves day, and the rest of my workouts moving forward!

Cage

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

I see Dante has been tagged a few times and I'd love to hear his position in full on stretches during the set.
I'm also very curious to hear @homonunculus opinions on this as well.

 

[bbxtreme]

I’ve never utilized the stretching techniques preached by DC. That’s fixing to change though. I plan to implement them tomorrow for my Quads/Calves day, and the rest of my workouts moving forward!

Cage

DC is the only way I would do weighted stretches. I say that as someone who does PT and other things on a regular basis.

When you add weight to a stretch it has to be done just right to be effective and not dangerous IMO. I don’t see these guys coming up with anything better than Dante has.

As someone above said they’re just trying to create a new training style that doesn’t need to be created.

 

[cage99]

DC is the only way I would do weighted stretches. I say that as someone who does PT and other things on a regular basis.

When you add weight to a stretch it has to be done just right to be effective and not dangerous IMO. I don’t see these guys coming up with anything better than Dante has.

As someone above said they’re just trying to create a new training style that doesn’t need to be created.

Yeah I watched the video and I’m NOT EVEN TRYING to do reps with the stretching! That’s a healthy young man’s body type of thing if you’re capable!

What I plan on doing is utilizing the weighted stretches toward the end of my workout. Just start slow and controlled, nothing crazy to really get a feel for them.

Honestly, I don’t even know why I haven’t used the stretching techniques in the past. I do use DC’s RP reps in order to get myself to complete failure on my last working set though. I guess oversight and laziness on my part??

Cage