DNS 193 podcast: Actual Pro Cycles & How They Retain Muscle

[bbxtreme]

i believe all doses but that t3

would have you dumping lean tissue in a hurry

They just eat more calories. And Tren at 1000mg a week is magical at retaining muscle. LOL

I won’t go over 100- 200mg these days, but can only imagine what 1000mg will do.

 

[Mr OZ]

Obviously he was on that himself so it probably had nothing to do with you but you were his coach so must have known about it.

(most) everyone lies except to their coach is an interesting take.

 

[Elvia1023]

(most) everyone lies except to their coach is an interesting take.

Maybe I am mistaking what you mean but no I don't think that at all. If someone I didn't know well who I chatted to via pm occasionally would tell me he had been on 3 grams of test for over 3 years I am sure he would mention it to his coach. I know guys lie to their coaches all the time but this guy was honest and seemed like a nice guy. Why would he hire a coach and work with him for a long time and lie about all his doses. He was very open to me. Plus obviously any coach should be well aware of people taking over 3 grams because it's fairly common with advanced bodybuilders and surely everyone on here would agree.

 

[Mr OZ]

I know guys lie to their coaches all the time but this guy was honest and seemed like a nice guy.

nice guys never lie? lol

 

[VaginaBoob89]

I mean, we all know there are levels to this shit. Some hyper responders can take 1.5g total, other need that dosage per compound.

What’s weird is Dusty always gripes about his shit genetics and how he had to do things the freaks didn’t have to do…yet somehow that mentality is different with his cycles. Makes no sense and kinda exposes his lies. I would much rather listen to Gary Turner make the same argument (I had to work way harder with what I had) and also hear just how he had to leave no stone unturned when it came to drugs.

I get it. They are trying to be positive role models and not give kids ideas. But I’d rather have u just NOT do this bullshit interview question thing.

bRO,. LIEK He tOatally had to liek train wayyyy more hardcore thAn those Genetic Gifgter black guizz lol!!1 He's soo hardocre omg!1

 

[KillerStack]

Like someone said it's now suddenly in fashion to talk about PEDs, HRT and the dangers of tren and how you tried it once and it was worse than crack. Their shitty ass poscasts need topics and everyone needs to comment on PEDs now apparently, usually to hawk some "clinic" too. But you also want to save the children so you make the message safer. What happened to not talking about it "because it's illegal" (lol it was never the reason)?

Some pros are clowns who apparently can't count so if they say they are on 1 gram it might be 3 grams in reality and they might even believe what they are saying.

 

[Shelby]

We once chatted via pm and I asked you if you knew anyone who took high dosed test and I mentioned 3g. You told me you had never come across anyone who done that etc. I didn't ask you to name anyone just if you had come across it meaning yes or no. I was confused when you said no because I knew people you had trained who had taken that. 1 guy was being trained by you at the very time I asked you and he told me he had been using 3g's of test for 3 years straight. Obviously he was on that himself so it probably had nothing to do with you but you were his coach so must have known about it.

So I realized that day when it comes to finding out the truth about doses you couldn't be trusted either. I am not having a go at you or anything like that and I can 100% understand why you may tell a newbie I don't know anyone but still the answer you gave is why nearly every pro lies as well. I wasn't asking for details or names just if you knew anyone (I knew loads of people at that time).

It's the in fashion thing for pro's to come out with doses now because it gets views especially when their podcasts are doing shit. It's fairly obvious when some guys are full of shit regarding doses. All this time and he suddenly decides to go over his doses when in the past you could tell he hated talking about the subject and would only ever go on about the low part of the season. Some guys tell the truth but others you can tell how they talk they are too aware of how things will be perceived instead of just telling the complete truth.

Everyone will believe what they want to believe. I would guess that most pros run quite a bit more than is mentioned here, but I also know there is a wide spectrum of response, and assuming things tends to backfire. When I competed, I usually ran more than Dusty mentions here, and I'm like half his size. My typical test dose was about 1.2g per week and I never competed at more than 202 pounds. I tried 2g test for a short period but noticed zero difference (maybe because my genetics suck) so I stopped. I also rarely cruised, at least for the first handful of years I competed. And I was a shitty pro. I made a lot of progress from my starting point, though. I probably could have done it with less, but there was no control condition in the experiment so who knows. Later in my competitive career I started using a little less, and got away with it for a little while, but over time my physique suffered (but at the same time I was also getting older, which also plays a role).
I'm not going to sit here and say that the top pros don't use a lot - I'm sure many / most do. Most reading this already have their minds made up about this stuff, and aren't going to change (their identity is tied up in their belief).
Perhaps like you say I'm not someone that can be trusted, but I know that I'm human, which means that I only see a tiny fraction of what is going on in the world, and that tiny fraction is biased regardless of my awareness of it (and the same goes for every human reading this). So I try to be a bit slow(er) to judge, or call bullshit, when I'm really only guessing at best.

 

[alfresco]

Everyone will believe what they want to believe. I would guess that most pros run quite a bit more than is mentioned here, but I also know there is a wide spectrum of response, and assuming things tends to backfire. When I competed, I usually ran more than Dusty mentions here, and I'm like half his size. My typical test dose was about 1.2g per week and I never competed at more than 202 pounds. I tried 2g test for a short period but noticed zero difference (maybe because my genetics suck) so I stopped. I also rarely cruised, at least for the first handful of years I competed. And I was a shitty pro. I made a lot of progress from my starting point, though. I probably could have done it with less, but there was no control condition in the experiment so who knows. Later in my competitive career I started using a little less, and got away with it for a little while, but over time my physique suffered (but at the same time I was also getting older, which also plays a role).
I'm not going to sit here and say that the top pros don't use a lot - I'm sure many / most do. Most reading this already have their minds made up about this stuff, and aren't going to change (their identity is tied up in their belief).
Perhaps like you say I'm not someone that can be trusted, but I know that I'm human, which means that I only see a tiny fraction of what is going on in the world, and that tiny fraction is biased regardless of my awareness of it (and the same goes for every human reading this). So I try to be a bit slow(er) to judge, or call bullshit, when I'm really only guessing at best.

Best post yet

 

[Elvia1023]

Everyone will believe what they want to believe. I would guess that most pros run quite a bit more than is mentioned here, but I also know there is a wide spectrum of response, and assuming things tends to backfire. When I competed, I usually ran more than Dusty mentions here, and I'm like half his size. My typical test dose was about 1.2g per week and I never competed at more than 202 pounds. I tried 2g test for a short period but noticed zero difference (maybe because my genetics suck) so I stopped. I also rarely cruised, at least for the first handful of years I competed. And I was a shitty pro. I made a lot of progress from my starting point, though. I probably could have done it with less, but there was no control condition in the experiment so who knows. Later in my competitive career I started using a little less, and got away with it for a little while, but over time my physique suffered (but at the same time I was also getting older, which also plays a role).
I'm not going to sit here and say that the top pros don't use a lot - I'm sure many / most do. Most reading this already have their minds made up about this stuff, and aren't going to change (their identity is tied up in their belief).
Perhaps like you say I'm not someone that can be trusted, but I know that I'm human, which means that I only see a tiny fraction of what is going on in the world, and that tiny fraction is biased regardless of my awareness of it (and the same goes for every human reading this). So I try to be a bit slow(er) to judge, or call bullshit, when I'm really only guessing at best.

I agree with everything you wrote here and it's how I feel exactly. You are discreet with things but I have never seen you openly post nonsense so that's why I probably asked you all those years ago so I was just surprised with your response. I don't disbelieve when people come out with realistic cycles just certain people I can tell are lying. Another example of a pro that I think has obviously lied about doses recently is Jay Cutler. Just like I don't think Dusty has been honest about site injecting. He may have done those cycles before but I believe he has used much more in the past. As I mentioned I was even told that by someone he has spoken with many years ago when he wasn't using his real name on the forum.

 

[primobolan]

Half truth Hanshaw

 

[Yousef12O2]

i just saw an interview of justin harris and he said alot of the big guys he knows are in the 2-3 gram range in the offseason and most people when they get over that in the offseason they destroy their appetite and feel sluggish and unable to train and want to sleep all day etc,

sorry he didn't say the big guys he knows take 2-3 grams but he says this is the range in which alot of guys in the offseason would be able to take without curshing their appetite and feeling lethargic etc
here is the interview

around the 1 hour mark

 

[Elvia1023]

nice guys never lie? lol

Why are you twisting my words. Nice guys lie all the time... including Dusty in that podcast. We are talking about a guy I used to chat to on/off for awhile. Someone I know his real details and he was on my facebook. Yes people lie to their best friends and wifes but why would a guy who I chatted to about gear etc lie about that. If he did it's strange. Maybe you're right and he was on 5 grams of test

I have loads of mates we chat to about this sort of stuff (bodybuilding). People off this forum I chat with. Have you tried this, new exercises, new drugs, life etc. He told me he had been using 3 grams of test and he never come off. I asked how long and he said it must be over 3 years now. You're twisting words and no surprise because you have done this in the past.

 

[Elvia1023]

sorry he didn't say the big guys he knows take 2-3 grams but he says this is the range in which alot of guys in the offseason would be able to take without curshing their appetite and feeling lethargic etc
here is the interview

around the 1 hour mark

I think most on here know how much pro's take. It's not a case of finding out certain pro's take 2-3 grams so if he says 2.1g he must be telling the truth and if it's 1.7g he could be lying.

I would say most pro's are literally in a range of 500mg to well the sky is the limit per week. It varies massively and some guys are on low doses and others are on crazy high doses. But sure if you want to generalize most pro's I would say are in the 1-2g, 2-3.5g or 5g and over ranges. You could say low, medium and high. Although you may have someone on 3g test and 1g mast and another using 1/2 the total dose but it's filled with tren and orals so total dose isn't always indicative of damage to health.

This thread is mainly about do we believe Dusty is being completely honest. A lot of guys tell you what they have done over the last 5 years but act like that was what they done their whole career and I think that's the case with him. Everyone can agree to disagree and we can go around in circles like all of these threads. What I will say is if you want to be a healthy bodybuilder follow his advice and nothing he is saying is wrong but I personally do not believe him when it comes to drugs (and site enhancement).

 

[K1]

Well, for whatever it's worth, I'll call it not bullshit.

I haven't watched the video but does he discuss SEO use at all in it?!

 

[BIG1512]

I haven't watched the video but does he discuss SEO use at all in it?!

I would say site injections in the Triceps or seo in them. I think he may have talked about his Triceps before.

I like Dusty and have followed him before he turned pro. Idk if he is telling the whole truth. The thing I do kind of question is he says he has horrible genetics but was able to get that size with those lower doses.

But who knows I guess all I care about is what I take lol

 

[KillerStack]

I would say site injections in the Triceps or seo in them. I think he may have talked about his Triceps before.

He did, there was a big "fight" and I think Dante hasn't posted since which is unfortunate as he is mostly very loved by members. Dusty said his triceps were due to Winstrol injections specifically IIRC. Interestingly he said the same didn't work for his delts as they didn't form scar tissue like the triceps, it didn't "take." From observation his biceps were obviously injected too as the shape was quite affected at some point. Admitted by Dante, Dusty had ordered Syntherol specifically, did an odd injection of it but didn't like it. Correct me if I'm wrong on some detail.

 

[Elvia1023]

He did, there was a big "fight" and I think Dante hasn't posted since which is unfortunate as he is mostly very loved by members. Dusty said his triceps were due to Winstrol injections specifically IIRC. Interestingly he said the same didn't work for his delts as they didn't form scar tissue like the triceps, it didn't "take." From observation his biceps were obviously injected too as the shape was quite affected at some point. Admitted by Dante, Dusty had ordered Syntherol specifically, did an odd injection of it but didn't like it. Correct me if I'm wrong on some detail.

I have seen him deny and dismiss SEO a few times. He was getting some unexpected hate after a video was posted so he had to address it and he came up with some BS reason. How he had just done his tri-ceps one time I think and nowhere else. Obviously his bi-ceps have been loaded up for shows as well. That alone should tell you if he was honest or not because he said he has never touched his bi-ceps ever. I am not even going to go into it as it's stupid because anyone with eyes knows what is true and what is false. Site injecting arms is ridiculously common especially before shows but some guys just will never admit the truth and if they are "forced" to address it they come up with half truths.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I would say site injections in the Triceps or seo in them. I think he may have talked about his Triceps before.

I like Dusty and have followed him before he turned pro. Idk if he is telling the whole truth. .The thing I do kind of question is he says he has horrible genetics but was able to get that size with those lower doses

But who knows I guess all I care about is what I take lol

outside of everything else discussed....

I think some guys didn't watch the video, or maybe just parts of it and may have missed some key points. In the video he states he does not have good genetics, i'm assuming as a stage competing bodybuilder, but also states he has the ability to gain and keep size easily. He doesn't have the greatest shape, so he needs to play the size game to make up for it. I think this is what he means when he bags on himself. So he is able to gain size easily as long as he is training hard and eating right, but for size, he doesn't need to drill high amounts. He hangs around 280# (+/-) pretty much year-round. A lot of guys can 'get big,' but when it comes to the stage look, especially at the highest levels, that's where genetics really come into play. Some larger guys with less pleasing looks can sometimes beat out better genetic guys (look-wise) if they are off and lacking just enough size. If that makes any sense?

 

[KillerStack]

Perhaps like you say I'm not someone that can be trusted, but I know that I'm human, which means that I only see a tiny fraction of what is going on in the world, and that tiny fraction is biased regardless of my awareness of it (and the same goes for every human reading this). So I try to be a bit slow(er) to judge, or call bullshit, when I'm really only guessing at best.

I would bet you "see" more than most when it comes to PEDs in bodybuilding. From what I've read you must have a ridiculously vast network of bodybuilding contacts and if anyone could generalise it should be you. Or you might say you can't generalise as people are so different. I tend to think we can generalise to a large extent, like with all drugs with PEDs I there's mostly an effective range that applies to most. I don't have to know what Jay Cutler does exactly to be able to guess a certain dosage range for him or other pros. Like a 500 test and 400 EQ in the off season is not realistic (or whatever he's claimed recently.)
It was funny when Milos got Jay to admit to 200mg of Anadrol recently. That's also something a lot of guys could have guessed.

 

[bbxtreme]

I would bet you "see" more than most when it comes to PEDs in bodybuilding. From what I've read you must have a ridiculously vast network of bodybuilding contacts and if anyone could generalise it should be you. Or you might say you can't generalise as people are so different. I tend to think we can generalise to a large extent, like with all drugs with PEDs I there's mostly an effective range that applies to most. I don't have to know what Jay Cutler does exactly to be able to guess a certain dosage range for him or other pros. Like a 500 test and 400 EQ in the off season is not realistic (or whatever he's claimed recently.)
It was funny when Milos got Jay to admit to 200mg of Anadrol recently. That's also something a lot of guys could have guessed.

I had this discussion with another competitor a few weeks back. He was so angry that people like Dwayne Johnson and Jay Cutler won’t open up.

The problem is that you don’t win either way when you’re in their shoes. Once The Rock opens that door and admits he uses PED’s he can never walk it back from a PR stance and every kid and gym bro in the world will try and throw diet and training out the window and do his cycle.

Jay has made the mistake of toeing the line because of the same reasons. He can’t undo it once he puts it out there. People either need to discuss it openly like John Meadows and Milos or don’t. Because kids and gym bros only hear or think about the cycle- not that it takes 10 years, eating 5-10k clean calories per day day, 365 days out of the year and training your ass off off 5-6 days a week.

Shelby said it best- there is a spectrum. And IMO it’s all about what you want to accomplish in this spectrum or goal.

I’ll never forget one of my first calls with Milos, he told me “if you want to win a national show and be a pro, you’re going to have to eat a shit ton of clean calories, use insulin and take tren because everyone else will be.”