Do Aromatase inhibitors really help with water retention and moon face on high Testosterone dosages?

[Mufasa123]

Setting aside hgh, diet matters more than anything for me and water/bloat. E2 matters, compounds and esters matter but diet for me is a bigger factor.

 

[phoenix2]

Have you tried using prop like @Black Beard ?

Yes and for me is worse than enanthate. Because with propionate there is a faster peak of test that makes me aromatize more.

 

[phoenix2]

it's not really about estrogen - it actually causes water retention and IA lowers it but you can't be on a caloric surplus and have a face of death as if you were in a large caloric deficit

why do people attribute everything to drugs they take and not take into account the rest of the factors that have a greater impact on our appearance than steroids...

Yes i agree. But when you are in a caloric deficit, with plenty of cardio and you sudden develop a moon face, you get sudden water retention on legs and midsection, then you take an AI and the day after water dissipates, it's not the diet, are the estrogen.

 

[phoenix2]

And of course, when the moon face is coupled with low mood, acne, nipple pain/sensitivity, you can't go wrong. It's time to introduce/increase an AI.

 

[luki7788]

Yes i agree. But when you are in a caloric deficit, with plenty of cardio and you sudden develop a moon face, you get sudden water retention on legs and midsection, then you take an AI and the day after water dissipates, it's not the diet, are the estrogen.

yes I agree 100% but I'm writing about the diet because most people eat garbage even when in deficit and not to mention offseason - chat meal here cheat meal there but estrogen is to blame for everything

 

[declan]

Has anyone tried eating raw ginger daily? It debloats my face

I made turmeric tea as recommended when I had pitting edema after a long flight. It did help bring it down, I did lots of long walks with it though.

I love sushi ginger, I don't think it helps with face bloat though lol.

 

[$$moneymoneymoneyy$$]

Anyone have instances where your muscles are flat and weaker but your face still looks puffy? What would cause that?

 

[Ace0]

Anyone have instances where your muscles are flat and weaker but your face still looks puffy? What would cause that?

Low sodium/poor hydration

 

[$$moneymoneymoneyy$$]

Low sodium/poor hydration

Makes sense, it often happens days where I have intense workouts and long cardio sessions in the morning before going to work where I pretty much fast most of the day, only drinking water

 

[Elvia1023]

Luki... I completely agree. I also agree with Phoenix2 as well. I see it alot because I regularly go long periods without using any AI's or SERM's. I probably take AI's 3 months of the year. I do often pick secondary compounds to help lower aromatization but I also go long periods taking estrogenic drugs without and AI's. I don't mind my estrogen rising especially when growing. I have gone months on higher test and some deca without an AI many times. On high test (even with high or lower calories) I soften up over time. Every single time if I add in letrozole my body changes dramatically within a few days. The same for aromasin it just takes a bit longer as the effect isn't as pronounced. I can look like I have dropped 2% bodyfat in a few days just because of the massive reduction in water retention.

 

[$$moneymoneymoneyy$$]

Luki... I completely agree. I also agree with Phoenix2 as well. I see it alot because I regularly go long periods without using any AI's or SERM's. I probably take AI's 3 months of the year. I do often pick secondary compounds to help lower aromatization but I also go long periods taking estrogenic drugs without and AI's. I don't mind my estrogen rising especially when growing. I have gone months on higher test and some deca without an AI many times. On high test (even with high or lower calories) I soften up over time. Every single time if I add in letrozole my body changes dramatically within a few days. The same for aromasin it just takes a bit longer as the effect isn't as pronounced. I can look like I have dropped 2% bodyfat in a few days just because of the massive reduction in water retention.

This is a dumb question I know but can lowering e2 too much while blasting make one more prone to fat gain if eating in caloric surplus? I always read about how low e2 can affect gains or strength in other forums

 

[st114]

I’m honestly ignorant on science so this is bro science, correct me if I’m wrong.
But daily fasted cardio in the morning, lowering carbs a bit, and Masteron all help with the moonface for me

 

[phoenix2]

Luki... I completely agree. I also agree with Phoenix2 as well. I see it alot because I regularly go long periods without using any AI's or SERM's. I probably take AI's 3 months of the year. I do often pick secondary compounds to help lower aromatization but I also go long periods taking estrogenic drugs without and AI's. I don't mind my estrogen rising especially when growing. I have gone months on higher test and some deca without an AI many times. On high test (even with high or lower calories) I soften up over time. Every single time if I add in letrozole my body changes dramatically within a few days. The same for aromasin it just takes a bit longer as the effect isn't as pronounced. I can look like I have dropped 2% bodyfat in a few days just because of the massive reduction in water retention.

Yes, letrozole can dramatically change the appearance in a matter of days (with a whole tab the day after you look a different person). However, we all agree that you can take 2.5 mg of letro per day and still look puffy and bloated if you eat like shit. DHT compounds help to a degree, until estradiol reach high levels (subjective threeshold).

 

[$$moneymoneymoneyy$$]

Yes, letrozole can dramatically change the appearance in a matter of days (with a whole tab the day after you look a different person). However, we all agree that you can take 2.5 mg of letro per day and still look puffy and bloated if you eat like shit. DHT compounds help to a degree, until estradiol reach high levels (subjective threeshold).

Have you ever run into a situation where it had a negative affect on your appearance?

 

[phoenix2]

Have you ever run into a situation where it had a negative affect on your appearance?

Yes, of course. If you take too much at first you dry out, then if you continue you start looking flat and soft.

 

[$$moneymoneymoneyy$$]

Yes, of course. If you take too much at first you dry out, then if you continue you start looking flat and soft.

Whenever I overdid AIs in the past I’d get flat and oddly slight moon face, idk if that’s normal or not. What would cause that to happen?

 

[phoenix2]

Whenever I overdid AIs in the past I’d get flat and oddly slight moon face, idk if that’s normal or not. What would cause that to happen?

Yes, it's possible.
There is a balance between the stimulating effect of estrogens on sodium and water retention (through increased angiotensin and aldosterone secretion) and the inhibition of such process (through estrogens mediated reduction of tubular sodium channels - ENaCh ). Overdoing AIs can throw off too much this balance, leading to increased water retention (not like high e2 puffiness, but you see a layer of water under the skin) and eventually increased blood pressure. Everytime i took to much letrozole eventually i looked like shit.

https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bcp.14752

 

[$$moneymoneymoneyy$$]

Yes, it's possible.
There is a balance between the stimulating effect of estrogens on sodium and water retention (through increased angiotensin and aldosterone secretion) and the inhibition of such process (through estrogens mediated reduction of tubular sodium channels - ENaCh ). Overdoing AIs can throw off too much this balance, leading to increased water retention (not like high e2 puffiness, but you see a layer of water under the skin) and eventually increased blood pressure. Everytime i took to much letrozole eventually i looked like shit.

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https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bcp.14752

Very informative post, thank you. For a sec I felt stupid for asking that lmao

 

[prodaf]

By experience from my athletes and me, moon face is more related with fat.
Yes you can be puffy by E2 but it s not the main cause.

 

[luki7788]

By experience from my athletes and me, moon face is more related with fat.
Yes you can be puffy by E2 but it s not the main cause.

there used to be a bodybuilder from Poland and he also wrote on PM - his name was Vadim (Bokito) he always said "excess fat keeps excess water" when you are really fat free even 2g of testosterone without IA will not keep you a lot of water